"Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Ahem

Terrorist plots ‘helped’ by FBI

F.B.I working undercover shocker.

I think there’s a difference in undercover work against an indentified threat and phising for people who may, given the proper help (in these cases not unsubstantial from the FBI) try to do something.

Better the FBI than actual terrorists though, and I’m not losing any sleep over them.

I read today a thought provoking sentence;

The right to life surpasses all other rights

One of the best statements I’ve read on this. Just unfortunate it was buried in an article about Anjem Choudhary saying that selling the comics in Britain is ‘an act of war’

Telegraph

Sughra Ahmed, president of the Islamic Society of Britain, said freedom needs to be defended “at all costs”.

“We need to de-escalate the tension around all this. Those Muslims who feel offended may have a right, but in the scheme of things we should be far more offended by injustice, economic exploitation, anti-Semitism, homophobia, murder, etc,” she said.

“We are not defending the new cartoon per se, but the ‘all is forgiven’ sentiment is important and gracious and if many of my work colleagues were shot dead, I would feel defiant and want to fight back, so I understand where this is coming from.

“The people that committed the murders in the name of Mohammed did anything but help his teachings and his cause.

“If we want religion to be taken seriously and treated as a topic of every day conversation, it can’t be off limits, it will inevitably be criticised and even ridiculed. We just have to accept that as part of modern day life.

“At a time when Muslims in other parts of the world are struggling for freedom, we should understand better than anyone else the importance of free speech. Freedom is a benefit for all, and we need to defend it at all costs.”

Interesting indeed @Lifer. I certainly agree that the murders don’t help the teachings of Islam or its cause.

Hollande has confirmed the big aircraft carrier can (will certainly IMO) assist in action against IS. I think this shows how much the attack on France backfires, France is (was ?) one of the most pro Middle East/Arab countries in the EU.

Why would an Israeli official and not a French one be the 1st to release info to the press agencies?

Original tweet here

We don’t know, why don’t you tell us rather than playing bloody guessing games?

jivehoneyjive – because Robert Murdoch had Hollande’s phone tapped who in turn had their phone tapped by Mossad who in turn actually run America and the AP?

Joke… or is it… 😉

Free speech Israeli style…

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/14/israeli-newspaper-hamevaser-merkel-women-charlie-hebdo-rally

OK jive at what time did the French release the news ? Given the whole incident was the subject of live rolling on site news footage why does it matter or signify anything who was first to tweet the news. Anyway why were you first to circulate a forged BBC page when only the forgers or people close to them would even know it existed.

@ edukator or anyone else French tbh – its a genuine question BTW

Why is fredom of sppech ok for Charile but not for the comedian?
Fromt he outside it strikes me as free to say what you want as long as we agree. Clearly what he says is offnive but so what?

Edukator I assume from your post you dont agree wiht his treatment so not aimed at you / a troll I am genuinely curious as to the thinking here

@ Jam bloody journalist eh getting in thew ay of the Israeli bombs and bullets .You are like one of those spoof twitter accounts from the IDF

Why is fredom of sppech ok for Charile but not for the comedian?

Because the comedian broke the law.

Also there was a certain hilarity to arresting him, as it would appear that he only likes free speech if it’s a message that he agrees with – like making potentially anti-Semitic jokes.

OK jive at what time did the French release the news ?

Not sure yet… I’m off out swimming, so if you want to do the research and post it up, it’d be much appreciated

Anyway why were you first to circulate a forged BBC page when only the forgers or people close to them would even know it existed.

I wasn’t… I was the 1st on the forum of course, but there’s a big old world out there beyond the forum~ like much of the latest info in developing situations, twitter is where I got the link.

That BBC link was indeed a dud, but this:[/url]

Doubt 1: The security cop who killed himself

The Charlie attack began around 11.30 am (CET) on 7 January 2015

Immediately, a specialist cop with relevant experience – Helric Fredou – was assigned to the case. He had been an anti-terrorist Special Branch (SRPJ) police officer since 2011.

He worked all day assessing film, recordings, identity details. He stopped for neither lunch nor dinner, but (I’m told) did phone one family member and “express concerns” about some of the stuff he’d seen. Just after 1 am the next morning, he died from a bullet wound to the head. He had “a history of depression” the authorities quickly established. The verdict was suicide.

Just two months earlier, he’d found an immediate colleague dead in similar circumstances.The verdict was suicide.

Doubt 2: The missing frames from the France 24 video of cop being ‘killed’

This clip of film was clumsily edited before publication. The missing bit in slowmo and close-up looks to me conclusive: the killer who ‘finishes off’ officer Ahmed Merabet with an AK47 from close range misses the cop, the bullet ricochets off the pavement. From that range, a successful shot to the head would’ve blown Merabet’s brains up and down the street. There is no sign of any such effect.

We’ve been told Ahmed Merabet died from that shot. He didn’t. Do we have a body? Will there be an autopsy?

Doubt 3: Flak jackets on the roof.

One Paris contact says some of this film too has been edited since the incident. This person (and others on French blogs) claim they can clearly discern flak jackets on some of the observers.

That too suggests pre-warning of the attack.

Doubt 4: Establishment of terrorist identity

Although I’ve tried already to establish that the two perpetrators were near brain-extinct, not even a martyr with an IQ in single figures would leave his identity card in the getaway car for the cops to find: frankly, anyone with an ounce of sense would leave all IDs at home (or destroy them) and rip all tabs out of their clothing.

Doubt 5: They were already under surveillance

At the risk of pressing a tad too hard on the sarcasm pedal, having terrorists under surveillance kind of loses its attraction as a policy if they’re still free – in broad daylight, in the capital city – to mosey on downtown to the offices of the most offensive BD-mag in France, don face balaclavas, enter the wrong address, take a hostage – and then gain effortless access to the building.

There are only two conclusions possible here: either the French security services are at a level in the basement below ‘useless’, or they turned a blind eye. For reasons that both precede and follow, I favour the latter.

Doubt 6: No idea of the address, but fully briefed on it being weekly editorial meeting from 11am onwards

Turning this same coin over, we are being asked to believe that two slogan-screaming idiots (who didn’t even case the joint before driving there) nevertheless had an espionage network capable of discovering the exact time of Charlie Hebdo’s weekly editorial meeting….but not which floor it took place on.

I think there’s a very good chance they were helped on the timing information.

Doubt 7: Mass rally of world ‘leaders’ in three days flat

It’s obvious to most people (with the probable exception of Con Coughlin) that the Hypocrisy Happening in Paris at the weekend was – given the nature of censorship applied by these sociopaths across the planet these days – likely to result in a rush on anti-seasickness pills, what’s less obvious is how Hollande managed to round up almost every Swinging Dick on Earth to turn up that quickly.

The whole event seemed to me carefully orchestrated.

The Policeman investigating’s death

The footage of the shooting

And the prior performance of the intelligence services, be it:

the Guardian article already mentioned regarding how Goverment agents often recruit patsies to carry out terror attacks

Or the vast network behind Operation Gladio

All raise legitimate questions…

In France there’s a word “apologie” which doesn’t mean apology it means excusing/justifying/supporting. So “apologie de crime de guerre” doesn’t mean you feel sorry but that you speak out in favour of the war crimes. It’s illegal in France in a number of contexts including apologie de crime antisémite et du terrorisme. A court will have to decide if Dieudonné’s support for the guy who killed the Jews constitutes such a crime.

My personal view is that Dieudonné gave his support to or stated that he identified with the killer, but without reference to his crimes. Unless he went further than the Je Suis… I saw. A court will decide.

As in “apologist” I guess?

As an outsider it strike me as offensive but also his right /free speech to say he supports them

I guess he also courts controversy as well as it pays the bills

Ta

For the record I do not think you are a racist and I accept I overstepped the mark in order to make my point re offence.
I apologise for this as it was unnecessary. I should have clarified and apologised earlier than I did/have.
Whilst I dont always get your views on the Burkha and other issues I do not think your motivation/reason is racism.
Sorry

In France there’s a word “apologie” which doesn’t mean apology it means excusing/justifying/supporting. So “apologie de crime de guerre” doesn’t mean you feel sorry but that you speak out in favour of the war crimes. It’s illegal in France in a number of contexts including apologie de crime antisémite et du terrorisme. A court will have to decide if Dieudonné’s support for the guy who killed the Jews constitutes such a crime.

It would potentially be illegal in this country as well, under anti-terrorism legislation.

As an outsider it strike me as offensive but also his right /free speech to say he supports them

Personally, I find it utterly hilarious the dickhead got arrested. Like most of these types, they only support freedom of speech until that right is being exercised by a group of people they dislike, I’d get a similar laugh out of a far-right type getting done in similar circumstances.

“OK jive at what time did the French release the news ?
Not sure yet.”.
So you made it up when you suggested an Israeli official was first? Even if true does that mean anything more that the Israeli embassy had an observer on site who unlike the French had nothing better to do than tweet?
“Anyway why were you first to circulate a forged BBC page when only the forgers or people close to them would even know it existed.
I wasn’t…twitter is where I got the link” so you follow the fakers on twitter and trust them more than the Lamestreem media”

Doubt 1: The security cop who killed himself . very sad history of depression access to firearm very traumatic time previous traumatic experience . who honestly knows but suicide is a tad more plausible than random motiveless black opp
“but (I’m told) did phone one family member and “express concerns” about some of the stuff he’d seen.” Told by who what concerns lots of dark hints to fantasise about but no actual logical scenario.

“Doubt 2:” made up fantasy based on what the author thinks a video of someone being shot would look like . the author clearly having no technical qualification .
“We’ve been told Ahmed Merabet died from that shot. He didn’t. ” what is the basis for the assertion he didnt ?
“Do we have a body?” Yes and grieving relatives and a funeral to boot or are you sick enough to say they are actors
” Will there be an autopsy?” Probably .

“Doubt 3: Flak jackets on the roof.” Or bodywarmers or usual anti terror police has the authur ever been to Paris last time I was there there were 3 man army teams patroling stations in combats with flack jackets and assault rifles.

“That too suggests pre-warning ” utter rubbish UK police and even security guards wear stab vests that look exactly like flac jackets as a matter of routine

Doubt 4:”not even a martyr with an IQ in single figures would leave his identity card in the getaway car” the author is clearly thick one you need valid ID docs in France no martyr would want to blow his opp by having none or false docs spotted on a routine stop . martyrs want to be maytrs they have no worries about being identified and indeed every reason to seek to be named.

“Doubt 5:

At the risk of pressing a tad too hard on the sarcasm pedal, having terrorists under surveillance does not mean what the authur thinks it means from having watched some films. Often it is intermitent indeed mechanical rarely is it close observation which needs a significant team

“Doubt 6: No idea of the address, but fully briefed on it being weekly editorial meeting from 11am onwards” made up unless the author is in the terrorist cell and can say these things are true.

Turning this same coin over,= having your cake and eating it.

“Doubt 7: Mass rally of world ‘leaders’ in three days flat” either a few world leaders were able to make that rally at short notice by use of aeroplane s or the French rang up a few months ago and said we are thinking of staging a terrorist incident and want you to attend when is good for you? Let me chose which is credible.

I am sorry for posting this but I do find these conspiracy theory’s offensive and disrespectful to the dead. The same theory’s with almost the same facts have been asserted and demonstrated to be false in relation to previous incidents and it is more than noteworthy that they normally originate from the same groups .

it is more than noteworthy that they normally originate from the same groups .

And the same person on here

Jive , and this is a serious question, what was the last major event that you thought was not a conspiracy.

this is the problem every single event is one

The facts are irrelevant they serve only to be manipulated and twisted to prove that whatever the event is it was a conspiracy as that is what you believe the moment you first hear the news on EVERYTHING

“OK jive at what time did the French release the news ?
Not sure yet.”.
So you made it up when you suggested an Israeli official was first? Even if true does that mean anything more that the Israeli embassy had an observer on site who unlike the French had nothing better to do than tweet?

Have you provided any evidence to the contrary?

Nope

Lucky I’m good at getting to the bottom of things eh… here is the original source

As regards the Flak jacket, judge for yourself:

Also note the strange cut in the video at around 17 seconds as it passes the chimney pot: you will see someone has edited the video, as the figures in the road change position with impossible speed.

Jive , and this is a serious question, what was the last major event that you thought was not a conspiracy.

That’s a good question…

perhaps this:

or maybe the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction thing…

Thank you, Junkyard.

Edit: whilst some of Jive’s points stretch the imagination the fact the killers turned up for the editorial meeting suggests they were being provided information by others and may have been acting on orders.

While jive does seem desperate to see the conspiracy in everything there is a pretty murky history of government agents/informers doing all sorts of shady stuff including acting as ‘agent provocateurs’ in numerous terrorist groups. This is fairly well documented.

Not saying that is the case here but to completely discount it as a possibility isn’t being rational/skeptical.

So the French released it first.
No flack jacket s one possible body warmer
No missing frames .
No impossible speed.
Stand down all is not suspicious.

So the French released it first.
No flack jacket s one possible body warmer
No missing frames .
No impossible speed.
Stand down all is not suspicious.

Just popped that in Google translate and it came back as ‘denial’

Barak Ravid=

I’ll let you do the research on that

The rest, everyone can judge for themselves…

Of course police and counter terror use under covers and agent provocatures and participating informants but it is a big leap from that to this and counterproductive . The whole point is to push them to commit than catch them interrogate and convict . not to let them win for no benefit.
Educator not hard to work out when a regular meeting fixed to a regular publication date would be . on the other hand they it may have just been a coincidence . a day earlier we may be wondering how they knew the time of the financial review meeting a day later how did they find out about Julie from accounts surprise retirement party.

Seriously if it was false flag tipped off how did the staff chose who was to escape on to the roof and who got to die?

Jive your own link says Hollande told the Israelis Holande is French you know.

Seriously if it was false flag tipped off how did the staff chose who was to escape on to the roof and who got to die?

Victims of false flags aren’t tipped off: as the guardian link suggests real terror acts occur after patsies are brainwashed and armed.

It’s dirty, it’s wrong, it’s horrific, but that doesn’t mean it’s not real…

Is that the case here?

No one can be sure at this stage, but given the number of pointers, further investigation is wise.

So who are the people evacuating on to the roof jive?
Name One single terror act from the guardian that actually went through to a incident where the terrorists struck.

I can’t imagine for one minute why Israeli officials might be in close touch with French officials when the police are raiding a building to rescue Jewish hostages.

Tell me, would you be surprised to hear that it’s not uncommon for police and special forces of various countries to train together and to have observers at major incidents? Well documented that SAS assisted in GSG9 rescue missions etc.

I’ve been providing answers the whole time crankboy, maybe it’s your turn…

EDIT: Yes ninfan, it is indeed common for security services to work together, like the CIA and MI6 in the coup of Iran over oil prices, or like CIA/MI6/Saudi Collaboration on Operation Cyclone.

Perhaps you could provide some similar instances involving MOSSAD?

How many intelligence agencies worked together on founding the network surrounding Operation Gladio, I shudder to think…

What do you hope to achieve JHJ…?

there is a pretty murky history of government agents/informers doing all sorts of shady stuff including acting as ‘agent provocateurs’ in numerous terrorist groups. This is fairly well documented.

True
Sometimes my eyesight decives me and I end up being the victim of an optical illusion or not seeing somethign properly
Neither fact means you should not believe your eyes nor act like Jive-. its a massive leap from a “known” point of cynicism into some sort of surreal flight of fancy
As always he needs proof. His version of proof is someway from most folks and seems to conside smear , innuendo and an appeal to do further research as proof.

real terror acts occur after patsies are brainwashed and armed.

this is the great irony you are a conpiracist patsy and you are brain washed into seeing thing everywhere.

I wish you all the best in making Jive rational but these “debates” are pointless. Facts and reason dont sway him so I am not sure what you expect to happen here

a) Further investigation of anomalies, to ensure no foul play

b) Raise awareness of the dark acts carried out by Governments, so as to prevent the causes of terrorism in the 1st place

Seems a bit silly posting on a bike forum, I know, but beside those who actually post on the thread, there is doubtless many other observers.

OK… but how do you see your involvement making a real world difference? Practically speaking..?

How will you ensure no foul play for example?

the evangelical zeal and certainty of the righteous

STW can do many things end the causes of terrorism is not amongst them
Tragically naive and ,whilst I wish it would work, I had to laugh.

What do you hope to achieve JHJ…?

False flag operation.

STW can do many things end the causes of terrorism is not amongst them
Tragically naive and ,whilst I wish it would work, I had to laugh.

I can but try; been doing pretty well so far, even if I do say so myself 😉

Just need a bit more optimism Junky, we’re getting there 😆

How will you ensure no foul play for example?

Six degrees of separation innit; people know people that know people etc…

1st step is getting things in the public consciousness, once people start talking about things, solutions can be found… a rider on here might be a butcher, but they know a journalist, who has the contacts, gets the scoop and essentially has me to thank

hooray!!

I can but try; been doing pretty well so far, even if I do say so myself

Not sure about that. What little I’ve read appears to be standard issue stuff.

Take a truth, mix with a half truth, and throw in some fantasy tosh. If the fantasy tosh gets questioned deflect with the truth element.

And if something gets well outed as utter pish, ignore and change the subject.

And if something gets well outed as utter pish, ignore and change the subject.

Apart from the fake BBC link, I’d like to to know what other utter pish I’ve supplied?