"Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

To be fair, there’s been little to do. It’s been broadly civilised

Bum.

Bum bum bum bum.

Bum.

This is quite long

It is yes…

worth a read

It really isn’t.

Bum.

Fair dues Woppit. 😀

Now, about that Free Speech angle…

What the BBC report fails to mention is that Israeli authorities confiscated footage from journalists aboard the flotilla

Wow so Israel gets to decide what goes to other counties from Turkey

With respect to Gaza yes. Your comparison with Iran makes no sense, other than to say if Iran doesn’t wish the US to supply arms to Israel it can try and intercept them. the fact is Iran is subject to numerous sanctions and restrictions due to its actions and stance on a range of issues including it’s attempts to arm Hamas. Israel seeks to ensure Hamas cannot arm itself hence checking all “aid” which enters Gaza. Israel isn’t always right, no country or individual ever is.

There is “no accepted STW view” and debate and all views are to be encouraged and held up to the same rational analysis. When your argument fails this test dont get upset [or overly personal].

Had to have a chuckle at this JY, so many personal insults aimed at me for posting alternative views, some of which I admit are pretty abrupt, ultimately water off a ducks back though. You are welcome to point out anywhere I have insulted someone.

How would Iran be today if the democratically elected government hadn’t been overthrown by the CIA and MI6?

Anjem Choudary sailing close to the wind again
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html

Radical cleric Mr Choudary said “ridiculing” Mohammed is attacking his personality, and said these actions are “extremely serious”, adding that if the “act of war” was to be tried in a Shariah Court it would carry capital punishment.

“It’s not just a cartoon, it’s insulting, it’s ridiculing, it’s provoking,” he said.

The lecturer in Shariah law, who was arrested in September as part of an investigation into Islamist terrorism, added: “These things always have a history of coming back and biting them. People are not going to forget. Muslims will never forget what these people did.

“And I’m sure there’s someone somewhere who will take the law into his own hands. It’s inevitable.

“There will be repercussions. I think there will be someone somewhere who will retaliate.”

You are welcome to point out anywhere I have insulted someone.

You are welcome to point out where I said you did.

The point was general point about STW rather than specific to you. If it was unclear then I apologise*

choudry is both correct about what it means under sharia law and that it is likely someone will retaliate. that said he is also an odious **** delivering a barely hidden threat.
It hard to not advise him to just move to a country with Sharia law

* though you could say what you would do if Iran blocked Israel or explain the principle at work…..you could couldn’t you?

Going back a few hours

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. “
Who said that then?

Is a paraphrase of this from the the wise words of the wise one…
The unwise man thinks all to know,
while he sits in a sheltered nook;
but he knows not one thing, what he shall answer,
if men shall put him to proof.

Hey, Anjem…

jambalaya – Member
As for the Turkish boat thing it got a huge amount of coverage at the time and afterwards and lead to an international investigation at the UN (I recall) where Israel was cleared.

More spin than a roulette wheel!

“Israel’s decision to board the vessels with such substantial force at a great distance from the blockade zone and with no final warning immediately prior to the boarding was excessive and unreasonable”

Your comparison with Iran makes no sense

Is this an edit as I missed it

Yes its my comparison rather than your principles that make no sense
My bad.

We fought over hundreds of years to limit the power of religion, and have a secular state, we don’t need to return to 1697 because of a minority of deeply insecure religious nut jobs that can’t take a joke.

Let’s remember that just a few years ago we had a religious minority who were deeply upset by a parody of their prophet that was so offensive that it should be banned

Did we respond to this by self censoring and never saying anything nasty that might upset them in the future, or by telling them to stop being so silly?

Wow so Israel gets to decide what goes to other counties from Turkey

With respect to Gaza yes.

why? its not their land and neither is the occupied territory…as decreed by the UN.

JY – I think I did edit that line as it didn’t make sense when I read it back. Funny how my principals seem to be aligned to UK government policy over the past 20 years, governments of all persuasions Labour, Conservative and coalition ?

If Iran tried to blockade Israel ? Mute point really as it’s impossible and Iran knows the response from the US and Israel would be pretty dramatic.

@Lifer I thought that was nothing more than a slap on the wrist and in any case if you have navy ships alongside and helicopters overhead and a deck full of people with iron bars and marbles you are expecting to be boarded. Israel was cleared with respect to shooting those on-board, that was the central charge.

I don’t mean to get the thread off-topic although I am probably guilty of that.

why? its not their land and neither is the occupied territory…as decreed by the UN.

Because the government of Gaza has as it’s main policy the elimination of the state of Israel. Doing anything else other than tightly managing the borders to prevent the importation of weapons would be naive in the extreme. It wasn’t like this when the Israeli’s pulled out in 2005, it changed when Hamas was elected in 2006. The Egyptians have now widened the buffer zone to 1km demolishing houses and destroying tunnels, on Al Monitor Hamas were complaining about how much this would limit their ability to smuggle weapons including more sophisticated ones with a token complaint about less food.

Funny how my principals seem to be aligned to UK government policy over the past 20 years, governments of all persuasions Labour, Conservative and coalition ?

Are you claiming they are never wrong? FWIW you are meant to explain how your view is correct not list all the folk who agree with it

If Iran tried to blockade Israel ? Mute point really as it’s impossible and Iran knows the response from the US and Israel would be pretty dramatic.

How is that meant to explain the “principle” you apply ? as I said if your views dont stand up to rational analysis change them. You are not even prepared to try.
Your, repeated, side steps of the clear and salient point being made to you tell us all what we already knew. It also shows us that you know it too 😳

Israel was cleared.

nothing more than a slap on the wrist

Which one of these are you claiming happened now ?
It was cleared or it was lightly punished ?

Very brave lady Local newsgent will stock Charlie Ebdo

For being able to explain her position or for the position 😉

I agree lets not get sidetracked, no more from me.

A very good explanation of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com

(The Castorama one is brilliant)

@ninfan, thanks for sharing that, very interesting and amusing. Most of those cartoons I like most people here will ever have seen before.

I look forward to having a good go through that, thanks Ninfan.

Yup that’s an interesting link and I will admit that gives some context that I wasn’t aware of. I still think some of those cartoons are very dodgy though, especially the Boko Haram benefits one.

‘We published something really racist but it’s ok because we’re actually taking the piss out of racists’ – hmmm…

The one of bullets going through the Koran is pretty dubious too, and not mentioned on that link.

@grum, I think the Boko Haram one is indeed controversial as the captured women where to be sold as sex slaves. As the explanation says its a comment on benefit claimants which itself is interesting as Charlie Ebdo is a very left wing magazine. Most of us have never read the magazine, I used to see it on newsstands in Paris but never thought to buy it before. I think now after the evens in Paris that has changed fundamentally. Even Arnie now has a subscription.

Print run now expected to be 5m, all copies today sold out in minutes.

Muslim Council of Britain Responce[/url]

EDIT: To me the bullets/Koran one shows that the terrorists are damaging their own religion, their own Prophet and that the Koran is no protection against evil acts.

Does anyone know where to find comparisons between how many of each religion are in editorial positions in the western media?

i.e. Something along the lines of how many Muslims have a say over what content goes out vs how many Christians, Jews or Zionists?

(I include Zionists separately, since it seems Christians can also be Zionists, as evidenced by David Cameron and Boris Johnson among others)

If you analyse everything Charlie in terms of right and left you won’t get very far. As I’ve already said, whilst broadly centre left Charlie spares no-one. A non-controversial one:

@jive – you would imagine the representation would reflect society, so with Muslims being in a minority you’d expect the same of broader press ownership in the West. Given the virtually unlimited funds available to Saudis, Emiratees and Qataris they are free to buy whatever they want. Aside from Al Jazeera I would note they seem to be far more interested in airlines and property. I mean for the price of the Shard or the old Chelsea Hospital barracks they could have bought anything they want. The Qataris own PSG, you can buy a lot of French media for the cost of Zlatan’s wages.

http://justice.gawker.com/these-world-leaders-are-a-worse-threat-to-free-press-th-1679032136

Curiouser and curiouser.

“Turkish president accuses ‘the West’ of being behind Charlie Hebdo attacks”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908358/Turkish-president-accuses-West-Charlie-Hebdo-attacks-deliberately-blaming-Muslims-conspiracy-theories-sweep-Internet-accusing-Israel-orchestrating-it.html

@digga, nothing curious about Ergodan’s rants, see comments earlier in this thread. Also how do you think all these IS fighters are getting into Syria, via unimpeded passage from Turkey who co-incidently have been buying IS oil on the cheap thus funding their operations.

@grum, describing Cameron as a worse threat the press freedom than two guys who murdered journalists just makes their argument look daft. In any case what Snowden did was illegal under UK law so Cameron was just applying the law as any UK Prime Minister would have done.

They might be stretching the point somewhat by including Cameron – however, your favourites the IDF have intentionally targeted and murdered journalists, so the criticism of Netanyahu is extremely pertinent eh?

BTW – here’s the French showing their strong commitment to freedom of speech again…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11344192/Comedian-arrested-for-comment-on-Charlie-Hebdo-attacks.html

Always found this Guardian article interesting; must have some substance, otherwise doubtless the CIA, FBI, NSA and their legal teams would’ve done their utmost to have it taken down:

Government Agents Directly involved in most U.S. Terror plots

“In some cases the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals by suggesting the idea of taking terrorist action or encouraging the target to act,” the report alleges.

@grum, indeed the Israelis are down the bottom of a list for press freedom but still above Turkey. I believe some 17 journalists where listed as killed in Gaza, it was a war zone so the Western journalists stayed out of the way in safer areas, none where killed. Wearing a jacket saying Press isn’t going to protect you from an airstrike.

That guy DuoDonne is a confirmed anti-Semite, Tweeting his sympathy for the terrorist was a deliberate attempt at provocation and he probably thinks it’s good pr to get himself arrested. He is a comedian but is banned for performing and with good reason. He is appealing to a specific target audience which I am sure you can work out. His “salute” is widely understood to be an inverted “zeig-heil” – that’s why Annelka was effectively kicked out of the UK and the club sponsor (Zoopla owned by A Jew) withdrew their sponsorship immediately independent of Annelka’s fine/ban/transfer.

Must have some no substance, otherwise doubtless the CIA, FBI, NSA and their legal teams would’ve done their utmost to have it taken down.

Muslim London coffee shop owner threatened over Je Suis Charlie sign

story link

Dieudonné isn’t banned from performing, he’s due to appear at my local Zenith shortly. I hope he gets out of jail in time, he channels some of anti-western sentiment in a non-violent manner. His latest show passed the anti-Semitic test and we’ll have to wait and see if a court decides his latest provocation is illegal.

Interesting @Edukator, I had read his show was banned, so he’s updated it. Hopefully it will be monitored and recorded for infractions.

In other news the Turkish State News Agency has confirmed all websites showing the front page of Charlie Ebdo will be banned/blocked 😯 Not sure for how long or quite how they will achieve that, incredible this is a country that thought it could join the EU

So much for Turkey being a secular state.

Drac – Moderator

Must have some no substance, otherwise doubtless the CIA, FBI, NSA and their legal teams would’ve done their utmost to have it taken down.

Ahem

Terrorist plots ‘helped’ by FBI

Of the 22 most frightening plans for attacks since 9/11 on American soil, 14 were developed in sting operations.

(I’m not sure how they’ve quanitified ‘fright’ though)

BTW – here’s the French showing their strong commitment to freedom of speech again…

Racist man that complains about racism get’s done for supporting terrorists who took issue with the same issues that allowed racist man to make past racist remarks and get away with it…..what a tragedy….