[Closed] Michael Gove. Why him in particular ?

he has a very slappable face;

[img] [/img]

He also appears to be trying to privatise the entire education system before the next election.

He is part man, part ferret, all a***hole.

Well , for starters ,it's rumored that he may not be human

...and he writes a column in the Mail.

Even by the standards of the present cabinet, his ****ishness goes off the scale. And thats quite some achievement when Grant Shapps is about!

All the rest of them are proper toffs, so all we can expect is for them to demonstrate the usual traits of born-to-rule, arrogant, chinless, in-bred ****-wits. But Pob isn't. He's a pleb who aspires to be one of them, so he's a class traitor, with no excuses

[img] [/img]

even the pavement hates him;

He's just.... The thing with him is...... He's got..... The problem....... He really just......

It's hard to explain.

It's because he's a ****.

he writes a column in the Mail

[i]He also appears to be trying to privatise the entire education system before the next election. [/i]

this was a serious reply 🙁

I see he's just come out in support of the Mail's clobbering of the Ed Miller Band's dad. Along with his ferocious attempts to destory the education system, it all rather marks him out as a bit of a ****.

It's because he seems to revel in being as nasty and heartless as possible.

this was a serious reply

So was mine 🙁

What criteria do answers have to fit for them to count then? Every one so far seems perfectly valid to me. Especially about him just being a ****! Clear, concise and too the point! Was mine too expansive?

Be happy - at least he's not your *&£%^"£$!^ ^$%" *"^%£%$$£ &"£%$£&"* ing MP! If I ever was in such dire circumstances that only intervention by my MP would help me, I think I'd choose to keep suffering rather than engage with the $^&£ *&^$*&$ &$*&^$ (&"&*&£^£%!

glupton1976 - Member
He is part man, part ferret, all a***hole.

^^ This!

Swear filter avoidance hard at work there, chaps!

🙂

Because he is as nasty as Eric Pickles and Gideon, with an even more slappable face.

Sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss the other answers as less serious, it's just that they didn't seem to set him apart from so many other politicians.
So, he's trying to privatise education. Is that so different to privatising BT, British Gas, British rail, the Post Office etc. ?

[i]So, he's trying to privatise education. Is that so different to privatising BT, British Gas, British rail, the Post Office etc. ? [/i]

*adds MTG to list of potential slappees*

Because it takes a very special person indeed to be the biggest @rsehole in a room that also contains CMD, Gideon and Jeremy *unt

He is a man who talks about academic rigour, without accepting that this should also apply to the things he proposes as well.

He talks about academic excellence, whilst simultaneously denigrating every single education academic in the country.

He is taking power away from local authorities over schools on the basis that politicians shouldn't interfere with education, whilst making it that *only* his department can interfere with education, and boy does he love to interfere.

He is stripping the curriculum to the point that many essential skills for modern life (things like ICT) are pared back, and not part of the core set of subject's trying to remove creative subjects almost completely, despite the fact that some of the most successful exports this country has are based in the creative industries (music, computers games, films etc.)

He thinks that there is only one way to teach reading and spelling - phonics - and anyone who suggests that this isn't really the case for English and that a diverse array of techniques are required to teach reading and spelling in English is lambasted and called and enemy of promise.

He thinks it's essential that 5 year olds are tested, ranked and rated.

That's before we get to the privatisation, ghettoisation and general inequality fuelling academy and free school programmes, before we get to the boys own hero, 1950's style remodelling with the curriculum and the absolute distain he has not only for teachers, but for parents.

His final act, it would seem, would be to sack *all* teachers, *all* head teachers, *all* parents and *all* pupils, and replace them with a more acceptable set of people.

Horrible person

I suspect it's because he is one of those people in life who just cannot help but come across as a complete tool. Not sure he is really trying to privatise the education system. He does have a very valid concern and passion that the current education system is failing a large number of our young people. However, he is going about it in the wrong way and doesn't appear to want to listen to those who might just have a better idea.

and tubby Pickles comes a close second......

Yeah, OK about all that education stuff, but don't forget, he sent you all (schools) a bible each. And it only cost £370k. Can't you at least be grateful for that?

Its a general trend for teachers to find teachers the secretary of state for education a bit of a drag

But really he takes the biscuit. He really has no clue about what the country might need from an education system or what might be a good way of achieving things.

His knowledge of what actually happens in school is breath takingly awful. He has made major announcements on the current gcse system and 3 days later changed what he said as he hadn't known that gcses have higher and lower papers.

He seems to think that making the exams harder will make working class kids work harder. His A-level reforms are against the wishes of the universities but he says that we need to give the universities more say

Everything is based on his experiences and his views. He sees no room for expert knowledge

The face and voice are side issues. He is a terrible politician doing terrible things

I could go on but won't

PS we are no talking about levels of spending. he just has no idea what needs doing or how to do it

PPS I don't think he is privatising education. But he trying to use markets. This is moronic. Usually the state provides services in relation to need. This town will need X GPs a hospital this big, so that's what we get. try to creat a market to work. We have schools built with PPI not full as Gove allowed a new school next door. The PPI school doesn't cost less as its not full. Its just wrong

because I'm a teacher

Because they're unable to attack his background!

The Lefties have spent so much time attacking the Tories for all being upper class millionaires born with silver spoons in their mouths, that when they're presented with someone who has [b]perfect[/b] left wing credentials but who not only dares to disagree with them, but does so by being clever and erudite and does not underestimate people by avoiding big words or complex explanations.

Of course their big problem is that they can't attack his mandate either, [b]in addition to schools he's responsible for adoption and child care,[/b] and as an adoptee, they can't say a word on the issue against him - so they're stuck with ad-hom attacks based on his appearance!

PS:

As pointed out above, teachers hating education secretaries who expected them to do better is hardly a new thing, and worth recalling that the last one to receive the same extent of opprobrium from the teaching unions was Blunkett - who was notorious in his belief that the system could do better.

Because they're unable to attack his background!

Que?

Robert Gordon's College (Public School) followed by Oxford where he was president of the union?

This is hardly "perfect lefty credentials"

None the less, your pretence that it's all bluster and ad hom, is nonsense - there are a wealth of criticisms in this very thread which are based on his poorly thought through and indefensible education diktats (to describe them as policies, would be giving them a coherences they so sadly lack).

Que?

From wiki:

Gove was born in Edinburgh; at four months old, he was adopted by a Labour-supporting family in Aberdeen, where he was brought up. His adoptive father ran a fish processing business; his adoptive mother was a lab assistant at the University of Aberdeen before working at the Aberdeen School for the Deaf.

Robert Gordon's College (Public School)

In Aberdeen he was initially educated at a state school, later attending the independent Robert Gordon's College, to which he had won a [u]scholarship.[/u]

followed by Oxford where he was president of the union?

As were Tony Benn and Michael Foot! 😆

I listened to the irritating little twonk on the radio today and whilst I find plenty to dislike about him, he did not

come out in support of the Mail's clobbering of the Ed Miller Band's dad

Fwiw I know not and care not about his parents or upbringing. My opinion is based solely on his actions as a politician. That opinion is that he's a nobber of the highest order.

He does appear to make up 'policies' on a whim, according to what thought pops into his head. Ie: Today I'm going to abolish GCSE's and bring back O Levels. Then when people who know infinitely more about the subject than him point out why this might not be either possible, or desirable, then he simply dismisses their opinions and advice. Only to be left U-turning and back-tracking when, after spanking loads of taxpayers money on his latest ill-conceived nonsense, it turns out they were right. Again!

There is no way you can describe a public school educated Oxford graduate as having perfect lefty credentials - Foot and Benn certainly don't have "perfect lefty credentials"

But, none of those things actually matter to the argument - the fact that you continue to pursue them demonstrates how deeply hollow your position is.

Perhaps you could engage in the genuine criticism of his absurd and damaging dogma, rather than diverting it elsewhere.

I don't dislike him any more than any of the other idiots we have in power. We have a climate change denier as SoS for the Environment, someone who believes in magic sugar pills in charge of the health service, and Theresa May (no further explanation needed).

Gove completely disregarding any kind of evidence based approach is hardly exceptional.

Bokonon, sure - why not read this and tell me which parts of the speech you disagree with:

I think its interesting to actually sit down and read what someone is on about, rather than just relying on newspaper headlines and union press releases!

If Milliband can be lambasted by the Mail for his father's left wing views then what about Gove?
Wasn't he also pictured on a picket line when he was a journalist involved in strike action as reported in the Daily Mail!
[img] [/img]
Perhaps I've underestimated him and he is in fact a Bolshevik sleeper working to destroy the establishment from the inside.

Bokonon, sure - why not read this and tell me which parts of the speech you disagree with:

Under Gordon Brown and Ed Balls, schools have lost their principal purpose

Didn't have to read far to come up with some fatuous hyperbole. CBA reading any further.

His response was flat and he suggested he would also defend his father but also defended the right of the free press, even if they are as odious as the Mail.

No surprise, he has been quite consistent on this, he also defended the "freedom of the press [s]his right wing paymasters[/s]" throughout the Stephenson enquiry, no matter what odious crimes they committed.

The reality is we onlyt have a free press in theory, in reality we have an owned press. Journalists are not free to print whatever they think, they are clearly constrained by the restrictions placed upon them by the editorial policy dictated through ownership.

being clever and erudite

Ninfan. You do know the thread is about Michael Gove?

Wasn't he also pictured on a picket line when he was a journalist involved in strike action as reported in the Daily Mail!

I'm not sure I like Mr Gove Sr's choice in shiny raincoats.

Wow, partial quotation out of context:

[i]Under Gordon Brown and Ed Balls, schools have lost their principal
purpose – and been saddled with a host of supplementary roles.
As the flagship document of Ed’s first year in office – the Children’s Plan
– indicated, schools are less places of teaching and learning and more
community hubs from which a host of children’s services can be delivered.
In that sense education has indeed been eclipsed – and the renaming of the
Department is genuinely significant – we no longer have a single
department of state charged with encouraging learning, supporting
teaching and valuing education.[/i]

See what I mean about actually sitting down and reading what someone is on about? Mind you, I suppose your short attention span is to be expected, Its par for the course with the standard of education being delivered nowadays Grum 😉

of course zulu knows what the thread is about why do you think he is pressing folks buttons ?

So, he's trying to privatise education. Is that so different to privatising BT, British Gas, British rail, the Post Office etc. ?

even the pavement hates him

Zulu self-pwning again. It's like the good old days. 😀

I need to ask because I don't understand.
If an organisation has a target, whether it's 90% next day delivery for 1st class letters, 90% punctuality for trains or 90% exam pass rate for children, then I don't see how inviting tenders from private bidders to replace state control is significantly different for one "industry" over another.

I'm not saying I'm in favour of privatisation, I just don't see why if a private company can buy some trucks, rent a yard and hire some staff to run rubbish collection for the local council, why is it so different to buy some books, rent a building and hire some staff to run a school ?

Educating a child isn't the same as posting a letter. HTH

EDIT : Since you have completely edited your post mine now makes no sense.

So let's try again. Educating a child isn't the same as getting your bin emptied.

Posting a letter is different to driving a train.

Edit;
I didn't edit my post, I added another one which cross posted with yours, as did my next one.
I'll pause a bit now to allow everyone, including myself, to catch up.

Yeah I don't think you're going to get your head round this one.

I just don't see why if a private company can buy some trucks, rent a yard and hire some staff to run rubbish collection for the local council, why is it so different to buy some books, rent a building and hire some staff to run a school ?

Because delivering education isn't as easily quantifiable as delivering letters or collecting rubish.

edit: I am well behind the discussion.

Ninfan

Why did he knight the head of a local federation of schools for doing all the things he claims to hate. Almost all the dilution and resit culture I see is in his academies.

Last week I sat down with about 10 students with a gcse B grade in maths. Only 2 had done the gcse at the end of year 11. The rest had sat it at the end of Y10 and then sat around doing no maths for a year. They are now trying to study physics A-level. Why does he bother with rhetoric if he can't deliver. He could and should have stopped that practice the day he got the job.

I don't see how inviting tenders from private bidders to replace state control is significantly different for one "industry" over another.

HTH.

One attempt at a serious answer
the argument is that private organisations primary goal is to make profit for their shareholders where as the primary goal of education is to educate.
Private provision is more likely , especially as they dont have to follow the same rules * as state controlled schools, to result in a less uniform standardised education system [ as we get with say trains ]
The delivery would be more erratic and a lost education is far worse than a lost letter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24360100

todays most recent example as "free " schools are one of his ideas and the start of "privatisation"

Woow there, Gove now decides who is knighted?

the argument is that private organisations primary goal is to make profit for their shareholders where as the primary goal of education is to educate.

Don't the rail companies get fined for every cancelled or late train ?
Perhaps school companies could get fined for every expulsion or exam failure.

I know it probably appears that I am arguing in favour of privatisation.
I'm not, I'm just trying to understand why education is a special case.

Care for the elderly is largely privatised.
Someone; relatives, the council, or the person themselves, pays a set amount per month to the care home owner for the elderly person's care, with very little monitoring of that care.
Why is that situation so widely accepted, when a similar situation of the council paying a set amount per month for a child's education, which is constantly and closely monitored, so unacceptable ?

Woow there, Gove now decides who is knighted?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19407451

Government departments also put forward candidates.

So firstly we can assume that his department would be nominate people and would approve that list.

Had he at any point said. I'm disappointed that ______ head of blank _______ Federation has created 2 Academies where in their first year no students did more than 2 gcses then he probably wouldn't have been knighted

Perhaps school companies could get fined for every expulsion or exam failure.

I'm just trying to understand why education is a special case.

Care for the elderly is largely privatised.

with very little monitoring of that care.

Why is that situation so widely accepted, when a similar situation of the council paying a set amount per month for a child's education, which is constantly and closely monitored, so unacceptable ?

I read the link and the problem seemed to be more about religious extremism, and a known problem being allowed to continue by those who's job it was to monitor the school, than whether the teachers were paid by the council or a private company.

What if that school's funding had been dependent on getting at least average exam results for [i]all[/i] its pupils ?
Would they still have been so keen to push all the girls to the back of the class room ?

aaahhh michael gove I cant quite say what it is about him that particularly upsets me

one of his first acts in the job was to try and cut the budget for school sports in the middle of the worst ever obesity crisis
that was a bad sign but it got much worse
his bizarre and pointless king james bible vanity project was another red flag
he has forced the nulabour accademy project upon the entire country and seems to tevel in alienating the people he most needs on side- the teachers

another major issue I have is his love of free schools, winding back centuries of progress allowing religion, bigotry and ignorance back into education

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/02/derby-muslim-faith-school-ofsted-inspection

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-return-of-section-28-schools-and-academies-practising-homophobic-policy-that-was-outlawed-under-tony-blair-8775249.html

I read the link and the problem seemed to be more about religious extremism, and a known problem being allowed to continue by those who's job it was to monitor the school, than whether the teachers were paid by the council or a private company.

your analysis of the causes is also at odds with reality

Ofsted's findings were so damning that the acting head of Al-Madinah, in Derby, had little choice but to shut it down immediately.

You may also wish to read the handy explanation on free schools on that link as well

I am oot as i just dont believe anyone can be this "confused" and in need of answers. TBH you are either trolling or you are just going to struggle

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100221432/you-show-me-your-education-policy-and-ill-show-you-mine-michael-gove-steals-diane-abbott-away-from-ed/

You're trying to understand why education is different from delivering a letter, emptying a bin, or driving a train?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and have a wild punt. You don't have kids, do you?

To quote the greatest poet philosopher of our age 'I believe the children are the future....'

I doubt that's ever been said about bins or letters, though in the nineteenth century it admittedly could have been said about the train

Do we have examples of world class education in the UK?

Eton! Do I win a prize?

IIRC its a teeny weeny bit better funded than the state sector and off course they select their pupils on ability. You would need to try really hard to not get better outcomes with all those advantages.

Have they decided they want to enter the state market or are they sick of being told they dont do enough to help the state sector?
here is ofsted head telling them off today...its like they have realised there is no money in doing this and their corporate responsibility extends as far as your wallet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24367150

No that's too exclusive!!! But funny....

Any more?

I rather like him
I think he's just a liitle misrepresented and an easy target for pinko lefty hand wringing whinge bags. And he has a certain sexiness about him as well, maybe a lot of it is just jealousy?

binners - Member
Eton! Do I win a prize?

#SecondRateSloughComprehensive

😉

Slough Grammar - be fair Flashy!

as a guy setting out to destroy education hes doing a damn poor job he s just overseen the rebuilding of every single secondary school in rochdale where the average is 35% of kids with 5 a-c passes whilst telling the toffs at the grammar s chools to pay for thier own building..

Nah, they let almost [i]anyone[/i] in!

(Turned them down myself, no rugby, see?)

Kids in Rochdale can now write?!!!! No good will ever come of this!! You mark my words!!!

...you are either trolling...

And comparing the physical act of delivering a letter with educating a child doesn't really advance the argument much either.

No, I haven't got any children, although I am sort of partly responsible for the upbringing of Mrs MTG's.
There seems to be a common theme in those links critical of free schools of religion.
If there was a "faith" school opening nearby, I'd want nothing to do with it.
If a group of local parents were opening a free school with the best interest of the kids at heart, I'd probably volunteer as an assistant metalwork or PE teacher if they'd have me.

The standard STW reply to anyone who asks anything more complicated than "What tyres for.. ?"

And comparing the physical act of delivering a letter with educating a child doesn't really advance the argument much either.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/michael-gove-why-him-in-particular/page/2#post-5387594
I need to ask because I don't understand.
If an organisation has a target, whether it's 90% next day delivery for 1st class letters, 90% punctuality for trains or 90% exam pass rate for children, then I don't see how inviting tenders from private bidders to replace state control is significantly different for one "industry" over another.

totalshell - Member

as a guy setting out to destroy education hes doing a damn poor job he s just overseen the rebuilding of every single secondary school in rochdale

Surely school building and renovation is council's work?

Junkyard, now it's you who is deliberately misunderstanding a question, a form of trolling.

Surely you must realise there is a difference in seeing the similarities between the principles of two different public services being provided by private contractors, and the physical act of carrying out those services.

Winning a government contract to deliver letters or drive trains is, [i]in principle[/i], very similar, even if a train looks nothing like a letter.

Pre-school children, the elderly and the disabled are frequently cared for by publicly funded private contractors.
Why are those who are so opposed to privatised education not also advocating nationalisation of those three ?

Yes and a meat eater is just like a vegan in that they both eat . Dont talk to me about the fact they eat different things when explaining how they are different.
Forgive me for [s]actually bothering to respond to you as if you were actually confused and wanted answers [/s] trolling I guarantee I wont do it ever again