Low carb/Paleo vegetarian diet?

I’ve been listening to a cycling podcast “fredcast #198” regarding a “Paleo” diet with Joe Friel[/url], I initially thought it sounded too good to be true but after reading up about such a diet it does seem to offer the sort of results and health benefits that he mentions in the podcast and it appears he’s not some “foodie crank” as he’s a co-founder of trainingpeaks and is very well respected in the endurance athlete training scene.

So?, has anyone or does anyone follow such a diet?, i’m aware that as a vegi i prob eat far too many carbs for my own good such as a massive bowl of breakfast cereal in the mornings, pasta, baked tatties, rice, bread etc…etc… and i would quite like to try this Paleo diet out for a few weeks to see if it makes a difference, i’ve been watching what i eat since xmas as i would like to drop back down to what i feel is my ideal riding weight for my 5 ft 6″ of just over 10 stone but i’m stuck at 11 1/2 and no matter what i do it doesn’t seem to be shifting so i guess i need to drastically change my diet or choice of foods that i’m eating.

I guess i eat a healthy diet anyway as i never buy/eat pre-packaged food and i enjoy making my own meals etc so extra possible time spent cooking would not be a problem and i’d quite happily munch on a bag of spinach or a bowl of broccoli so eating enough veg would not be a problem but i like my toast, and the occasional homemade pizza or garlic bread and i dunno if i could do without toast for ever as i luv banana/honey and toast on fresh home made bread…Yum…i’m getting withdrawal fever just thinking about it.

Anyone got any advice for an inquisitive vegi or have you stuck to the diet/way of eating and noticed health benefits that outweigh the lack of toast and pizza?.

My wife is veggy and we started a low-carb eating plan about 6 weeks ago. She does eat fish though – dunno what your thoughts are on that.

We have one “treat” day every week when we can have what whatever we want and still have muesli in the mornings, so “low” carb, not “no” carb. Lots of veg, cauliflower “rice”, a lovely low-carb chocolate cake, eggs, some cheeses (incl. Haloumi and Paneer) and she seems to manage just fine. I still eat meat, so supplement that with some other stuff too.

We’re shifting weight slowly but managing to keep it off. I’m 5’7″ and my target was simply to get out of the “overweight” BMI category. I managed that after 4 weeks (10 lbs lost) so I’m happy just to aim for 11.2 or 11.3 and leave it at that. Mind you’ I’ve also started with weights to get some upper body strength back so I expect it might climb a little anyway.

FWIW,

as a vegi i prob eat far too many carbs for my own good such as a massive bowl of breakfast cereal in the mornings, pasta, baked tatties, rice, bread etc…etc…

You are me AICMFP. I live off carbs, protein is an effort. At 5’10” and ~11 stone, it seems to be working for me thus far.

She does eat fish though – dunno what your thoughts are on that.

She is not a vegetarian as that is an animal

I’ve been a strict vegi for 24yrs and never liked meat/fish so turning vegi at 17 was not a problem for me – i’ve never ate bacon in my life so i wouldn’t know what i’m missing 😀 , i don’t eat gelatine or any dead animal products but i do like cheese n’ bio yoghurt etc – don’t drink milk as i prefer soya milk so i dunno if i’ll find it hard to get enough protein but on reading through some of the ultra endurance veg/vegan athletes blogs online they seem to thrive on such a diet and have no issues with protein depletion or suchlike, if they can cover 60 – 80 miles a day running on such a diet then i should be able to survive from one meal to the next without passing out surely.

Eating lots of veg would suit me fine and if your 10lbs of weight loss over 4 weeks is anything to go by then i could live with that, one thing i have read online (so it “may” be true) is that your body when consuming a high carb diet is more adept at burning carbs for fuel so thus you have to exhaust your carb/glycogen supplies before you start to burn fat, thus when you eat a low carb/non carb diet then you body recognises that it needs to burn fat as fuel and over time it becomes more adept at this method of fuelling which sounds like a win situation to me, i may have oversimplified the process but as far as i can tell that’s the gist of what i picked up with my few hours of web surfing so far.

I’ll have a read through some other online info but i think i’m gonna give it a try for a couple of months with no cheating allowed and see if it makes a difference, hope so….at the age of 41 my 32″ waist is gradually creeping up to a 33″ and i have the appearance of odd lumps that when i poke them appear to wobble.

That seems to have worked for me – but it took a bit longer for my Mrs body to adapt. One thing I have noticed is that I’ve become a lot more tolerant of a grumbling, empty stomach. Previously, as soon as I started to feel empty, I’d feel my energy levels dropping. Now, I just seem to be able to carry on as normal for much longer. I still think it’s right to be adding in some carbs during hard exercise though.

Yep. I started late January on the Low carb, high fat diet. I still eat meat, mind. I cut out all sugar too. The weight just fell off me. I’ve never been fat but I did put on a lot of weight in a month over christmas due to no exercise and some pretty unpleasant pigging out on sweets, chocolate and beer. No idea why i did that.

Anyway, I struggled to get into one of my suits which was always snug but now I couldn’t get into the trousers.

Oops.

So I immediately cut out sugar and high carb food after reading up on Paleo. Within two weeks I had lost a load of weight. I’ve continued and those trousers now need a belt. I’ve actually got quite skinny to the extent where a guy in the changing room at work has crossed the forbidden boundary, he’s commented on my weight!!!!

I still drink beer on a weekend and eat pizza on Saturday night and have a roast dinner.

Sounds good and positive so far from the responses, cheers peeps that’s just what i wanted to hear (especially the beer and pizza bit) but i work as a chocolatier for 2 days per week…….aww poor-poor me eh, just watch the sympathy roll in 🙄 .

I have to taste fillings/ganaches and test the chocolate for bite/texture and melt to make sure it’s in “temper” so i can work with it, this may be a problem but i could get someone else to taste it i suppose but i “know” what my ganaches should taste like and what texture/melt they should have, i doubt a small amount of sugar would make that much difference to such a strict diet though or would it?, i prob eat/taste 60g of chocolate a day and dab taste 10 different fillings on an average day but if i’m developing a new ganache i may taste loads n’ loads…Hmmm – i’ll see how the paleo eating method works out (i’m not calling it a diet, it’s a change of eating) before i worry bout it.

As for other sugars in my diet i don’t ever have biscuits or sweets in the house and i only take a small lump of brown sugar in my espresso’s and i could quite happily do without sugar in it so that won’t be a problem, i don’t use shop bought sauces or suchlike so i guess i don’t have a great deal of sugar in my diet to start with, i bet i’ll still suffer from sugar withdrawal though if others accounts are anything to go by.

I did have a wee panic just now as went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea, i spied my bag of twiglets on the counter and thought “no more twiglets…..sniff…sniff…” , they are my friends with their little crunchy knobbly bits and oh so moreish but after i finish this sacrificial bag “nom…nom….nom……nom” they’ll be no more twiglets passing my door or crawling into my shopping trolley.

My eating plan starts tomorrow, scrambled eggs and coriander with a large portobello baked mushroom for breakfast….but no toast as i’ve just thrown my loaf out for the birds.

😕

I have to taste fillings/ganaches and test the chocolate for bite/texture and melt to make sure it’s in “temper” so i can work with it, this may be a problem

I apologise in advance for saying this but,

Have you considered spitting rather than swallowing?

She is not a vegetarian as that is an animal

Moreover,

She is not a vegetarian, she’s a pescatarian. Saying you’re a vegetarian who eats fish is a bit like saying you’re a non-smoker apart from cigars.

Pedantism aside, this sort of thing causes problems for the rest of us when restaurants are lead to believe that a tuna dish is a great “vegetarian option.”

My eating plan starts tomorrow, scrambled eggs and coriander with a large portobello baked mushroom for breakfast….but no toast as i’ve just thrown my loaf out for the birds.

Have you considered porridge?

Pedantism aside

I bet someone tries to correct that to pedantry!

I like porridge but it’s heavy on the carbs, 30g of carbs for every 50g of oats so i guess that’s a no-no for a low carb diet, i like scrambled eggs wi coriander and a bit of red onion/cheese on the top and portobello mushrooms are nice when baked so that’s gonna be my breakfast of choice….hungry just thinking bout it……only 6 hrs to breakfast so i’d best toddle off to bed.

I like porridge but it’s heavy on the carbs, 30g of carbs for every 50g of oats

Any diet you embark on has to be sustainable, otherwise you’re wasting your time. Porridge (like most food TBH) isn’t “bad” itself. 30g of carbs is neither here nor there, most ‘balanced’ diets recommendations include about 200-250g of carbs for the ‘average’ man, and not convinced paleo man was cooking scrambled eggs, but Im willing to bet they made a gruel out of oats….

We’ve been eating bread for 10,000 years. What’s out of whack now is the calorie density, sugar and salt, and the amount people are eating, not the type of food.

178cm, 75kg. vegetarian FWIW.

Any diet you embark on has to be sustainable

This is my approach, and infact I would say give up the idea of a ‘diet’, as this suggests you will return to the ways which got you to where you don’t want to be.. Don’t diet,just change the way you eat…
I’m 39, been Veggie since I was 14 with fluctuating weight for all of that time.

I had some initial success with losing/keeping weight off when I looked into the whole IDave thing on here for a while, although obviously I did a bit of a modified version of it to allow for me being veggie. I quite liked the idea that I would be strict with myself for all but one day a week though and just not worry about it for one day.

I actually didn’t find the way I was eating then sustainable, though I did lose a bit of weight.
I have since just concentrated my efforts towards the ‘Low-GI’ theories which really seem to make an awful lot of sense to me. I read up a lot and also happened to have some in-work training which concurred with my findings.

So I now eat a fairly low GI diet and on Saturdays I just basically eat what I want. It’s worked really well so far. I’ve lost a fair bit of weight in the couple of months I’ve been doing it and folks have commented on several occasions.

I’ve stopped drinking all the fizzy diet drinks I used to throughout the day and I’ve stopped sugar in my tea, which takes a surprisingly shorter time to get used to than I thought.

This book is great for gorgeous recipes..

I also was drinking the odd beer or more during the week which has also stopped. I now just binge drink like everyone else! 😉
But yeah, it all helps to keep the weight off.

I eat very, very healthily. Tons of greens and nuts and pulses, B-vit supplements in case etc. Despite all this I have been feeling low in energy sometimes so had a blood test, but nothing missing it would seem. Totally healthy. Maybe just at a low ebb.

Recently cycled 125 miles over two days on winter towpaths from the Midlands to London so I’m kinda thinking my endurance isn’t too far off the mark.

I think this sort of concept really makes sense. We eat way too much processed crap these days and I think this takes us back toward something our bodies are more in tune with.

Quick snapshot of a typical day…
Porridge for breakfast with unsweetened soya milk, cinnamon and fruit and nuts.
Bean salad with quinoia and roasted veg at lunch perhaps.
Grilled mushrooms, enchilladas, salads, roast veg and goats cheese etc for dinner maybe…
Nuts for snacks…
😀

Recently cycled 125 miles over two days on winter towpaths

Top work… 😀

I think in addition, on here (as cyclists) we have a squewed version of being ‘healthy’ and ‘fit’ when what we really mean is “by any other measure, having a reasonably impressive level of endurance and energy” I’ve lost count of the amount of threads on here that start with “I felt really flat after my 160 mile 20mph average roadie* is my diet to blame”…

*I exaggerate for effect, but not by much….

this sort of thing causes problems for the rest of us when restaurants are lead to believe that a tuna dish is a great “vegetarian option.”

+1

Agree with paleo diet but one step at a time for me – I’m gluten free after a recommendation from my chiropractor. Many of the people I know now are and everyone who has tried it has been blown away by how they feel now. I could NEVER go back. That’s no beer, pizza etc. etc. Brutal but that’s against no joint pain, lethargic and feeling crap all the time (although I didn’t know how crap I felt for much of the time!).

Seriously, it’s a revelation and I even spoke to the GP about it, to taunt him about all the people I know who no longer have terrible skin problems, semi-paralysed etc. who are now all fine and he pointed me to the British Medical Journal and told me he knew and that there “is a storm brewing – 70% of the population would benefit from this”!

The best resource that I know of for info on paleo lifestyle is Marks Daily Apple- if you sign up he sends you regular updates, info etc- really interesting and well informed- links to proper research etc well worth a look.

Just one question – was it Palaeolithic life that was described as ‘nasty, brutish and short’?

Nearly 30 years on a veggi diet, 99% vegan in fact. I’ve never worried too much about carbs 5′ 5″ and 8st 4lb so it doesn’t seem to have made me fat! I have been favouring carbs from potatoes and pulses rather than rice pasta and bread recently. I’m not sure it’s made a difference but I’m feeling pretty good on it so I’ll stick with it for a while.

Just one question – was it Palaeolithic life that was described as ‘nasty, brutish and short’?

No, it was life in the early colonies in America.

Anyway, OP, have you not heard of this iDave diet thing? There’ve been a few short threads on it on here I think.

It’s basically Paeleo but without the fruit.

One point though:

We eat way too much processed crap these days and I think this takes us back toward something our bodies are more in tune with.

Quick snapshot of a typical day…
Porridge for breakfast with unsweetened soya milk,

What’s soya milk if not processed crap?

What’s soya milk if not processed crap?

Yes, I see your point of course and you are right, which is why I said we eat ‘way too much’.

It’s very difficult to avoid processed altogether these days. It’s a fact of modern life, especially if you don’t want to drink dairy milk, but anything you can do to reduce your reliance on it is better. I suppose I could just have water in my porridge… 🙂

Incidentally, you CAN make your own soya milk at home, but it’s very labour intensive and has a very short shelf-life, but in that form, is very good for you and free from potentially harmful processing.. Not for me though, I want to ride my bike.. 😀

I don’t eat too much processed stuff if possible but I’m only human and like convenience too! If I can take steps to reduce what I use, then that’s good enough I reckon. At least I’m not living completely blinkered then. But yeah, processed food will inevitably find its way into your diet unless you want eating to become a full time job!
🙂

That is a lot os stuff up there, but I was Slow carb for a year and lost quite a lot of weight and now I have been paleo for 2 years. It’s the best change that I have ever made in my life.

Don’t eat processed foods, avoid foods with sugar don’t eat grains.

it’s easy and if you make an effort to get more good quality sleep, it will transform your mental and physical wellness.

Check out robbwolf.com and bulletproofexec.com as well, it’s another goldmine.

I actually prefer porridge with water. I’ve found I can do without milk altogether but it’s hard to give up the last little bit of milk for coffee. Cheese on the other hand I find hard – it gives body and sustenance to so many otherwise unfulfilling meals.

but in that form, is very good for you

There’s some debate as to whether or not the soya itself is good for you, due to all the phyto-oestrogens.

I can’t eat cheese. Only problem that ever really causes me is eating out. Next time you’re in a restaurant, look at the veggie offerings and see how many have cheese in them; I’ll wager it’s probably “all of them.” There seems to be a train of thought that goes “no meat? Bung a load of cheese in instead.”

Well, it’s what I’d do 🙂

I know how you feel though. Try getting a lunchtime sandwich without mayonnaise in it.

Cheers peeps for the positive comments and the weblinks/books regarding the change of eating, i thought i ‘d be seen as a crank but far from it it appears, had nice big breakfast, a couple of espresso’s and about to head out for a long road ride on the bike seeing as it’s my day off.

And i know what you say when you mean it’s not a diet, i’ve been banging on for years with my mates regarding their so called “diets” as what they need is to change their eating habits rather than rely on a short term fix, i think it’ll be pretty easy to change my eating habits as i’m pretty arsid, when i decide to do something i do it without question so fingers crossed it works out.

I’m not giving up my espresso though 😀

Just ordered that Rose Elliot book!

I’ve been sorta veg idieting – which meant a lot of Quorn and bit of a restriction on variety. Hoping said book will help.

I am not particularly strict but reducing cheese, bread, beer and potatoes intake seems to help alot.

If only I could get rid of my dark chocolate addiction!

Just ordered that Rose Elliot book!

Strangely there is a few recipes in there that feature pasta. But I think as she goes through in the foreword, if you can reduce the overall gi rating of your meal, then thats better than nowt…

I wouldn’t worry about dark chocolate. A couple of pieces of 85% has hardly any sugar in it and a lot of good for you stuff actually.

Is this paleo/low carb diet not just the infamous idave diet, or am I missing something?

am I missing something?

Yeap. But do not fear, you’re in good company ^^^^^

Is this paleo/low carb diet not just the infamous idave diet, or am I missing something?

It’s similar. Paeleo includes fruit, but it’s basically the same idea reached from different principles.

Paeleo is about only eating things our stone age ancestors would have had access to (ie before agriculture) based on the idea that our bodies will be best evolved to deal with that diet and it will therefore be best for us.

iDave is mostly about minimising the amount of insulin your pancreas has to produce, on the grounds that insulin inhibits the burning of fat and makes you want more sugar.

Funnily enough they overlap almost entirely.

big difference is that there are no beans or lentils in paleo and some people have high fat dairy (me for one!)

Oh, I didn’t realise legume were out of paeleo. That must make it hard.

Yeap. But do not fear, you’re in good company ^^^^^

Oops, missed that comment from the wanderer before I posted 🙂

I lost about 6-7 kgs on the idave diet so was happy with that. I didn’t follow it to the letter of the law though as still had a splash of milk in tea & coffee but did drastically reduce refined sugars/cut out all bread and cheese though.

I miss the lack of fruit (and cheese – I love cheese) so the paleo diet is somewhat appealing.

They still had Subway in the Stone Age though right? 😉

You may be interested to learn that the only study into insulin index that’s available online rated cheese as very low. Which means it’s IN in my book 🙂

Although go easy cos it is calorie dense.

I have been primal/paleo for just over 1 year now and feel much better for it.

“Paleo” is an extremely broad church and means different things to different people. Personally I feel that diet – although important – is only a part of it. Keeping as active and possible, minimising stress and maximising your enjoyment of life are also very important and vital to the mental aspect of overall health.

I would also not worry about “what cavemen did” or even about sticking 100% to Paleo ideals. As long as you can take enough away to modify your overall lifestyle for the better then you will be taking a positive steps.

Ditching refined food (sugars in particular) is the most important part of the diet IMO. I felt considerably better mentally after I did that – I would say my overall mood improved, I found it easier to concentrate and get to sleep, etc.

Carbs are a contentious issue and IMO it is worth experimenting to find your personal “sweet spot”. You probably want to eat less if you are trying to reduce bod fat (maybe under 100g/day) possibly upping them to around 150g after you reach your target weight. Then there are people like this chap (http://eatingacademy.com/%5B/url%5D) who claim a VERY low carb (ketogenic) diet works for them long term. The main problem with carbs IMO is that they provide a lot of energy but very few micronutrients so you are better off replacing them with e.g. lots of veggies. Of course if you are very active and already eat a lot of veggies then they are a good source of extra calories. Sweet potatoes are your friends here!

With regards to being a veggie: yes I’m sure it’s possible. Just make sure you’re getting enough protein. You may want to look into protein supplements (whey if you eat dairy, soy if not). If you’re going lower carb then make sure you increase the amount of fat you eat to compensate (the worst thing you can do is starve yourself) as you still need to get enough calories from somewhere.

I would recommend the website Mark’s Daily Apple for the regular blog posts. Stay away from the forums though, they make this place look positively sane 🙂

amen to that brother!

My mental health is much better, my physical health is better and I am generally a happier person.

Now if you can figure out how to get grains out of your kids diet, i’d love to hear. Our youngest has had part of his large intestine removed because of a genetic problem. He does OK, but I think he’d be better off without the grains. unfortunately it’s simply too difficult to control what he eats, even with my wife on board with the idea, the daycare and grand parents are more or less unable to comprehend life without bread.

Tell a little white lie and tell people you’ve just found out he’s allergic to wheat?

So if paleo is pre-agriculture, does it have NO vegetables? Meat you kill and eat, fruit you pick, but carrots are farmed?