Liz! Truss!

What did Johnson get right?

During the pandemic? Well for a start the stuff that he needed the support of Labour MPs because he couldn’t get enough of his own MPs to support him.

Do you honestly think that everything Johnson did was always wrong? If so I can’t see any basis for a sensible discussion.

Universal basic income.

Just saying 😉

Liz Truss energy plan:

– freeze will be at around £2,500
– but £400 universal handout remains so that's why there are suggestions it's at roughly maintained at the £1,971 current rate
– paid by borrowing. No plan to claw back thru energy bills

1st reported @Steven_Swinford

— Sam Coates Sky (@SamCoatesSky) September 6, 2022

No claw-back.

Centrists will now move to a different position on this – how will we fund it? What about taxing the Energy Producers? The debt is unsustainable. Etc.

They will forget about the screams they made about the cost of living crisis.

Labour have been blown out of the water.

How on earth was Johnson responsible for brexit? That was voted for by the British people.

So latest supports are suggesting an 18 month freeze in household bills at around £2500 (still too high BTW) paid for by general ‘taxation’ (ie money printing) with an as yet unannounced solution for businesses (probably a grant/loan scheme similar to covid). If this is correct, then considering their reaction to the furlough scheme and wider covid support then the right wing of the tory party will be spitting feathers at Truss’s ‘socialist’ approach.

With the £400 support takes it to the average cap now pre-October as I understand it.

Seems to me that they’ve managed to take the energy crisis and turn it into a way of handing vast sums of money to energy providers? Just like how covid became a way of funneling cash and contracts to their mates.

The dollar is quite different to all other currencies.

Yeah – but they still operate through the same lens.

Yes basically. Too little too late and directed money into the hands of the well off not thise who need it most. We have one of the highest death rates in the world because Johnson did not take action early enough

He got none of the big calls right.

I think your lexiteer tendancies blind you to the huge harm johnson did

We don’t need backseat moderation as we have frontseat moderation. The moderation team will also deal with any “relentless personal attacks” you care to report.

I said “attempts at backseat moderation”. I didn’t say we needed it.

The moderators’ view of personal attacks is clearly not the same as mine.

daz – latest reports I’ve seen refer to a freeze based on the current cap and lasting for c18 months.
Something similar to be offered to SMEs but a lack of detail yet.
As for how it will be funded, the vast majority don’t care – at present; all they want is help now.
There is a clear message for Starmer and Labour – go big or go home.

Johnson is responsible for the scorched earth brexit and destroying telationships with other countries

He could have made it much less harmful. We could be in a sitation like Switzerland or Norway. Instead we are in a huge mess. Johnsons fault

Seems to me that they’ve managed to take the energy crisis and turn it into a way of handing vast sums of money to energy providers?

Looks like it. That’ll have to change… much of that money needs to be recovered from the companies making vast profits out of the current energy crisis. Those profits needed to be heavily taxed. The public won’t want to see money leaving that way, only to be then told we can’t afford the services we need, and need to just soak up further falls in real income levels. Especially as if it’s not recovered it’ll mean real income levels falling even faster.

Johnson is responsible for the scorched earth brexit and destroying telationships with other countries

not a boris, conservative or anything supporter
but he was given a pile of manure and asked to bake a cake

Which is why it is hard to predict

It really isn’t hard to predict, it may aswell already be written.

As for how it will be funded, the vast majority don’t care – at present; all they want is help now.

This x 100.

The argument will change tact – I’ve already seen it in the Guardian – borrowing, Mumbo Jumbo Tax payer, blah, Reeves, Blah.

What happened to the CoLC?

She’s pretty much done what I expected her to do – because the precedent is there.

People need to understand – money is circular – it goes from the government to the private sector and into you pockets,and then destroyed. The Tory government are turning extra supplies on because there is a shortage of spending power.

Sure they absolutely should tax the energy companies but this is not the first part of the problem to solve. And let’s face it for the all the state intervention here the Tories will still be Tories.

Looks like it. That’ll have to change… much of that money needs to be recovered from the companies making vast profits out of the current energy crisis. Those profits needed to be heavily taxed.

But that is not in anyway an urgent problem to solve.

not the first part of the problem to solve.

Correct. Which why they haven’t yet. They will have to. Otherwise the result is most of us being poorer, facing higher inflation and higher interest rates. So what does she do next…? She has to move to taxing those profits unless she’s happy to make most people worse off still.

Universal basic income.

🙏🏼

Correct. Which why they haven’t yet. They will have to. Otherwise the result is most of us being poorer, facing higher inflation and higher interest rates. So what does she do next…? She has to move to taxing those profits unless she’s happy to make most people worse off still.

We both probably know there are a much bigger problems here for sure. But for the time-being lets see how the help works its way through the system.

I’m very keen to see what happens with the BoE.

Universal basic income.

No. Everything about this becomes a way of keeping the wretched market place for jobs ticking over for the benefit of the companies by government. You will get low wages, max profit and there will be no fix for jobs that the state demands.

but he was given a pile of manure and asked to bake a cake

he shit the bed. it was his to clear up…

Good to see she’s carrying on Johnson’s tradition of tardy timekeeping

he shit the bed. it was his to clear up…

Nicely put.

You will get low wages, max profit and there will be no fix for jobs that the state demands.

Disagree strongly. Let’s not do that here though. Your fault @redthunder 😉

alan1977
Free Member

but he was given a pile of manure and asked to bake a cake

He brought in a pile of manure and told everyone he’d already baked a cake.

How on earth was Johnson responsible for brexit? That was voted for by the British people.

You’ve had six years to understand concepts like “representative democracy,” and “non-binding referendum,” if you haven’t got it by now then it’s a waste of everyone’s time trying to explain it yet again.

The moderators’ view of personal attacks is clearly not the same as mine.

How many have you reported?

People need to understand – money is circular – it goes from the government to the private sector and into you pockets,and then destroyed.

Well, a part from the billions and trillions syphoned off into to corporate and multinational accounts. Not a lot of destruction going on there, just accumulation.

IDS in an unusual eruption of self-awareness for a Tory MP, has just turned a cabinet position because he ‘didn’t think he could add value to the position’

If that alien piece of honesty takes hold among the gaggle of muppets being tipped for senior roles then there’s no way on earth she’ll be able to form a government

Anyway… Talkie the Toaster is nearly in Downing Street so brace yourself for some stirring and inspiring oratory

Universal basic income.

Love the general idea but unfortunately, parasitic landlords will just put up rents to absorb it. Massive council house building is what’s needed to go with it. Plus, if people aren’t being exploited through housing they start to become invested in their surroundings. More people giving a toss about the environment must be a good thing.

parasitic landlords will just put up rents to absorb it

Not an insurmountable problem… I mean, that’s already a problem that needs addressing, and can be addressed… see the Scottish Gov freezing rent prices for this winter.

A proper council house building programme should be part of any response though. I can’t see Truss announcing that.

Labour have been blown out of the water.

It was always going to happen. They probably just handed Truss the next election. Nice one Keir! 🙄

I wonder what happens with those households who’ve recently signed up to fixed energy deals that will be a lot higher than this new proposal.

Are they stuck in those deals?

They probably just handed Truss the next election.

– gov has no response
– Labour announce policy
– gov tries to match policy far too late, while also funnelling money upwards
– Labour points out where that money is going
– gov makes token effort to reduce money going upwards far too late
– more of the public can see we’d be better off with Labour running things

x repeat

dazh
Full Member
Labour have been blown out of the water.

It was always going to happen. They probably just handed Truss the next election. Nice one Keir! 🙄

For a few weeks, lots more problems to come. Though I think most are savvy to the fact starmer has been shouting for a price freeze. So it’s more the blinking obvious thing to do rather than blowing labour out the water.

Plus government protecting us from energy weaponization and a war time cost is just one of it’s basic responsibilities, not an extraordinary action.

Probably looking at may 2024 for the election anyhow, this will be long forgot about by then.

Are they stuck in those deals?

Martin Lewis mentioned this, they have a 2 week cooling off period, so some can cancel.

I wonder what happens with those households who’ve recently signed up to fixed energy deals that will be a lot higher than this new proposal.

Are they stuck in those deals?

Good question. And what of the ‘Don’t Pay’ movement? I was looking forward to boycotting my bills from October.

gobuchul
Free Member
Are they stuck in those deals?

Martin Lewis mentioned this, they have a 2 week cooling off period, so some can cancel.

Most will have a 100/150 quid exit clause too, so while a pain in the arse, they’ll get out of them.

So ernie. Specifically what did johnson get right during the critical part of the pandemic?

Lockdown. Too late this meant it had to go on longer and many folk died

Test and trace. Spent billions on a useless set up ignoring existing expertise in local councils for ideological reasons

Furlough support. Massivly skewed towards the well off. So poorly done it was an open invitation to fraud.

Closing borders. Too late and reopened too early

Eat out to help out. Massive transmission risk

Large public gathereings. Allowed to go on far too long

Thats pretty much all the major decisions and everyone he got wrong

How on earth was Johnson responsible for brexit? That was voted for by the British people.

A minority of the British people. But he Got Brexit Done, didn’t he? He’s been trumpeting since we left – who else could we blame? 🙂

– more of the public can see we’d be better off with Labour running things

Until election day when they can’t quite bring themselves to tick that red rose box. Or don’t bother turning out at all.

Universal basic income.

Just saying 😉

👆

A minority of the British people.

Quite. But a minority slightly bigger than the minority of the British people who voted against it. Regardless, it’s done. Most people have moved on.

Labour announce policy
– gov tries to match policy far too late,

How are they trying to match Labour’s policy – I thought the energy price freeze being suggested is 3 times longer than Labour’s 6 month freeze?

And why far too late – the next energy price increase isn’t due for another 4 weeks?

Labour seem to have been wrong-footed on this particular policy. Although I guess Labour could probably make the case to voters that they offer fiscal responsibility as opposed to the Tories spendthrift tax and spend attitude, it might win voters over.

The absolutely biblical rain greeting Lizzie in Downing Street seems to have lent an appropriate Book of Revelations air to proceedings

Write your own metaphors kids