Liz! Truss!

Same old arguments back in the tumble dryer again. Right is evil, left will take over the means of production.

If its not paid back by consumers it will be ” paid back” by austerity cuts.

Make no mistake. This will be used to make the rich richer and the poor poorer

Anyone noticed the usual drip-drip of a few different versions of the help supposedly coming into the usual media outlets? They’re still doing the whole ‘See what sticks’ thing that plays o the popular mood rather than what actually needs to be done. I’ve also noticed not a lot of talk about help for businesses, just households. New name, same old Tory bullshit.

And yet just two miles up the road from me people are losing their shit because a large solar farm is planned.

On land you can barely see from any road, and land that would in all likelihood be used for housing in the next 5-10 years otherwise.

I got collared by some NIMBY in Devises while popping into a local shop last week asking me to sign a petition to oppose a Solar Farm near there. I looked at the plan he had with him and said it was a good idea as it’s either that or a load of identikit New Builds. Seeing as solar panels don’t make any noise or create traffic congestion I told him it was the best use for the land. He looked all confused as his brain tried to process that if they defeated the Solar Farm it wouldn’t stay as a field.

most on here wouldn’t give any conservative a chance no matter what they achieved – create world peace, end famine, solve global warming

That’s just a list of things the tories will never, ever deliver – so I guess ‘most on here’ will never be given a chance to prove you wrong…

Don’t you find the over reactions to the topic drift more tedious?

Honestly, yes.

This is where we do run into presentation issues vs what we need the PM to do. Outside of “we believe there are incoming nukes. do you want to order Trident to respond?” how important is this good look? Isnt it better to have someone go “let me think about that for a bit”?

Cool. You’ve got four minutes. Tick tock. 😁

I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt, of course. None of us have any idea what she’s actually going to be like as PM, she could turn out to be a breath of fresh air. It’s like objecting to the new Doctor Who actor before filming has even started. But what’s the phrase, hope for the best and prepare for the worst?

To be fair she has got form on shit in the sea, rewarding the rich, deregulating labour etc etc. It’s not like she’s come with a clean sheet.

Don’t you find the over reactions to the topic drift more tedious?

They’re not over-reactions, they’re deliberate attempts (by one poster in particular) to cancel the views and opinions of anyone who doesn’t agree with them. That’s a much bigger problem for a discussion forum than topic drift. TBH it’s no different to any other form of bullying on social media and it needs to stop quite frankly.

It’s like objecting to the new Doctor Who actor before filming has even started.

We were right about that though…

And yes, though I doubt it, she could be totally unlike what we expect and we should at least give her a couple of months so we can see what she has planned.

They’re not over-reactions, they’re deliberate attempts (by one poster in particular)

Who exactly is this internet bully your talking about? I genuinely cannot see it?

I generally try to find the good in people, so I don’t sit in the all Tories are bastards camp – however they’ve cleared house of nearly all the non-bastards. FFS BJ got his own brother ousted from the party, who happened to be that increasing rarity of a competent moderate conservative MP.

Truss is an archetypal Tory Bastard – small government, trickle-down economics, deregulation, screw the little people, screw the environment. Her records, words, and history in government fill me with dread

It’s not like she’s come with a clean sheet.

This.

TBH it’s no different to any other form of bullying on social media and it needs to stop quite frankly.

Sorry, but who is doing the bullying? Who’s trying to cancel views? You told me to “bugger off”. I’m not willing to give Truss the benefit of the doubt. I’ve seen enough of her already, she’s been in government since… what, the whole twelve years of this lot being in power? Yes, I’ve already judged her, she’s not new, not a breath of fresh air, just the Tories playing their “fresh player” PR game, yet again… prepare for VIP lanes for everything, more impoverishment of workers and those who can’t work, more reductions in all our rights, and an even more hostile environment for people not born here.

I generally try to find the good in people, so I don’t sit in the all Tories are bastards camp – however they’ve cleared house of nearly all the non-bastards

Agree with this

Surely someone has run the maths on this plan… previous to her being instated, shes in the same party, so surely the same people have worked o nthese figures and its been waved around before…
i cant see that a party leader actually makes that much in the way of decisions, just a figurehead on the ship..so the new PM and new announcements are part of a bigger plan and to make the current talking point (energy crisis) sweeter to the genral public.. without actually fixing anything..
Energy price cap, paid for by the tax payer..
wrong solution, right solution is to make the high energy users contribute more, encourage everyone else to use less best they can and provide incentives to be much less grid dependent.

Would labour do any better? impossible to say.. all i see is an economic imbalance, not just in this country but globally. but it’s fine, we can make the voters happy for another 4 months while we work out what we are doing

I generally try to find the good in people, so I don’t sit in the all Tories are bastards camp – however they’ve cleared house of nearly all the non-bastards

Agree. I always thought that poor chap who was stabbed seemed a decent sort. Even years ago when he was being tricked by Brass Eye he seemed genuinely enthusiastic to help.

Good to see the same posters giving a new Tory leader the benefit of the doubt.

I have repeatedly said that all the likely Tory replacements to Johnson are imo likely to be worse than him, in terms of their effect on the lives of ordinary people. And I certainly believe that with regards to Liz Truss, I consider her to be more right-wing than Johnson.

If however I am proved wrong I will be extremely pleased. By the attitude of some people on here there will be quite a few who will be disappointed – they are clearly hoping that Truss will prove to be worse than Johnson.

Apparently it will be good for Labour.

Even years ago when he was being tricked by Brass Eye he seemed genuinely enthusiastic to help.

Lots of MPs of all parties genuinely want to help their constituents. The Conservatives have always had plenty of genuinely public service minded MPs. Loyalty to our last PM, and his open ended key policy, were put ahead of all that at the last election though, and lots were kicked out.

Richard Murphy on LBC James Oh Brien at 12:45 if anyone’s interested.

I’m sure there will be plenty of Truss stick!

Who’s trying to cancel views?

Well, there’s your tedious backseat moderation attempts.

Looks like after totally shunning Sunak at the announcement yesterday and those she is appointing to cabinet, she is doing very little to settle the divide in the Tory party.

As usual it will be a vipers den tearing itself apart as the country burns.

.

Richard Murphy on LBC James Oh Brien at 12:45 if anyone’s interested.

Thanks for the heads up. Doesn’t sound like they’re giving him much time though!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62801913

Energy firms would use the loans to subsidise customer payments, with them repaid by additions to bills over 10 to 20 years…

Sounds like exactly the first roll of the dice that I predicted. The pressure to change the policy will hopefully begin at the next PMQs… I can’t see the public accepting that “pay in your later bills” policy, and Labour and the other parties need to make that clear and push for something better.

…or repaid via future taxation.

It’ll be this, eventually. Or at least painted as this. The future bills idea won’t survive this winter. Windfall taxes (under a different name) will continue to play their part. If they don’t, then the public watching the oil and gas companies laugh all the way to the bank won’t end well for the new PM.

Richard Murphy’s thoughts

The Truss energy plan is dire. A short thread..

— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) September 6, 2022

Lots of MPs of all parties genuinely want to help their constituents.

Like I said before, you have far too much faith in these people. I think there’s a tiny few MPs who actually want to help their constituents, and they’re almost all outside the tory party. It would be more accurate to say that many MPs want to help their constituents as long as it doesn’t threaten establishment power and doesn’t damage their political careers. The end result is that constituents very rarely receive any help from their elected politicians.

“ Looks like after totally shunning Sunak at the announcement yesterday and those she is appointing to cabinet, she is doing very little to settle the divide in the Tory party.”

It’s this kind of statement that really underlined why politics is so tribal / now puts so many people off.

Having actually watched the announcement yesterday I saw Truss specifically thank Sunak from the stage – there was no “shunning” apart from a confected story of refusing to shake hands when it was clear to see that no hand was proffered by Sunak in the first place.

I’d also wager that even that most experienced politician would have an “oh carp” moment in the few seconds after they had just learned they would be PM the next day. Indeed there’s a story in the Times today describing how Tony Blair stuffed up his PM inauguration with the Queen immediately after he was elected because he was “flustered”.

Could the biblical rain be a sign that Liz Truss has officially been made PM? Press getting drenched waiting for her to come out pic.twitter.com/rJ6phapExC

— Abbi Garton-Crosbie (@agc_reports) September 6, 2022

and that’s what Scotland thinks of her

Murphy saying their might be another plan – i guess this is the problem with speculation.

I’m going with the Q/E approach as a guess – they won’t announce it as such.

Thanks for the heads up. Doesn’t sound like they’re giving him much time though!

Squeezed in at 12:50 ish.

You can call it “speculation”, but the media are responding to….

…the usual drip-drip of a few different versions of the help supposedly coming into the usual media outlets? They’re still doing the whole ‘See what sticks’ thing that plays o the popular mood rather than what actually needs to be done.

We’ll end up with the government paying. What’s key is to make sure that that money doesn’t end up as profits in the pocket of the oil and gas companies… or if it does, that it is taxed back to be used somewhere more useful. That’s the test for Truss… and if she’s pushed hard enough hopefully she’ll bend to accommodate it, to try and not be yet another short term Conservative PM.

They’re not over-reactions, they’re deliberate attempts (by one poster in particular) to cancel the views and opinions of anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

Well yeah – but I’m trying to stand back from it as I just find it facile.

You can call it “speculation”, but the media are responding to….

You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.

On her way home,I wonder if she’s dropping in for a chat with the First Minister?
It would be nice to clear the air and get off to a good start.

Well yeah

Who is “cancelling” which views, and which opinions?

You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.

Sure looks like it. Same old. Plenty of opportunity to push them towards something that isn’t just subsidising fossil fuel energy producers. We’ll see…

You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.

Its a standard tory practice with their client journalists. Have a “source close to” say something and then see how the public responds. If positive then the “close to” can announce it but if not there is no come back for the anonymous handler and they can feed their agent something else to try.

I got collared by some NIMBY in Devises while popping into a local shop last week asking me to sign a petition to oppose a Solar Farm near there.

My usual response is “Well you want the lights to come on when you press the switch, don’t you? So do your bit.”

John Crace absolutely on the money in the Guardian. As ever…

Radon Liz romps home in a pyrrhic victory https://t.co/O6YvbjsuZO

— John Crace (@JohnJCrace) September 5, 2022

There is not a single tory mp who wants to help ” the commin person” if they wanted to help they would not be a tory

The tory partys only reason for existence is to keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy. Some might pretend and some might offer a few more crumbs to the poor but not one of them actually wants to improve the lot of the masses.

To do so is incompatible with being a tory.

Name a single thing any tory has ever done that improves the life of the less well off.

Its a standard tory practice with their client journalists. Have a “source close to” say something and then see how the public responds. If positive then the “close to” can announce it but if not there is no come back for the anonymous handler and they can feed their agent something else to try.

Yes that makes sense – but they ought to know a loan based programme of support is not going to go down that well!

You mean they’re testing the waters with ideas deliberately.

Kite-flying is now just standard. Whenever Kuensberg on the BBC quoted ‘a source close to government’ or ‘a Downing Street source’, everyone and his dog knew she meant she’d been fed a line by Dominic Cummings to try out on the public and see if it flies, while all remaining deniable by Downing Street

Nuffing to do with us guv. No idea where you got that from…

Cummings has gone but this is just how everything is now done in number 10

As Malcolm Tucker used to say: “run it up the flagpole and see who gets wood’

Who is “cancelling” which views, and which opinions?

I’m not entirely sure what the difference is here between “cancelling” and “disagreeing,” can someone help me out?

Cougar
Full Member
Who is “cancelling” which views, and which opinions?

I’m not entirely sure what the difference is here between “cancelling” and “disagreeing,” can someone help me out?

😆 good point.