LBS closing

I joined a road club recently, mostly made up of newcomers to cycling, they get all their servicing done at the bike shop. Facebook posts asking how to change brake cables get answered with ‘take it to the shop, far too difficult’.

Contrast this with 90% of my MTB mates, build their own wheels, service forks, bleed brakes. I don’t think I’ve ever taken a bike to a bike shop in 25yrs of riding.

Us MTB guys are awful customers, no interest in any perceived ‘added value’, standard workaday kit, Shimano XT, Easton, Rock Shox, order by price, fit it yourself and ride on.

I think the biggest expense in the year is race entries.

Just so I have the model clear in my head……Shimano sell directly to CRC for £X. Shimano also sell to the distributor, Madison for example, for £X. Madison then sell to the bike shops for £X + a bit and then the bike shops sell to us for £X + a bit + a bit more. By the time you’ve gone through the process you end up with a c.30% mark up on £X.

I joined a road club recently, mostly made up of newcomers to cycling, they get all their servicing done at the bike shop. Facebook posts asking how to change brake cables get answered with ‘take it to the shop, far too difficult’.

Everything needs doing far less frequently so can’t be bothered learn possibly one of the main reasons there I suspect.

The newbie things does skew things quite a bit i suppose, i’ve been quite lucky (in a sense) that i’ve been out of the UK for a loooong time, and cycling here hasn’t taken off quite as thoroughly as it has in the UK.

Gotama – Member
Just so I have the model clear in my head……Shimano sell directly to CRC for £X. Shimano also sell to the distributor, Madison for example, for £X. Madison then sell to the bike shops for £X + a bit and then the bike shops sell to us for £X + a bit + a bit more. By the time you’ve gone through the process you end up with a c.30% mark up on £X.

I thought CRC’s stock was from bike manufacturers. Bike company buys lots of parts (more than they need) from Shimano, so price per unit is low and then sell on excess to CRC, etc, making some money from there as well.

Not quite. CRC buy from anyone.
They buy OEM kit (when a manufacturer has misjudged how many XT rear mechs they need, or has moved onto next years XT rear mech)
They buy from eurozone suppliers (paying a lower/different rate of tax).

Then they mix it up with stuff they’ve bought from shimano and sell it all.

Sort of.

CRC/through Hotlines are a manufacturer – Ragley etc. That means they can buy all their supply at OEM prices, there’s no need for them to be buying it off anyone else.

Open a LBS at a trail venue swimming pool.

-Not high-street rent
-Offer bike hire / demos
-On the spot servicing, fixing, trying out new stuff
-Fitting of parts customers order online
-Guiding, coaching, fitness, skills
-Target the cash rich/time poor customers (AKA triathletes)

Offer value added as a result of your experience, expertise and the fact you cant buy a service online.

The internet has changed our way of life and sport.

FTFY 🙂

That would make washing the bikes easier.

I see Leisure Lakes are opening a shop at that new bikepark Flyup 417

I couldnt say with any actual basis of fact, but I would suspect that the big guys find markets where the supply is competitive (due to currency/local pricing based on income etc.) and simply walk up to the wholesaler and and offer to buy a massive chunk of kit at very thin margins, then import that into the UK for distribution. OE kit does make it into the supply chain (Alltricks selling Pike RCs for example) but its not easy to deal with as it has no packaging etc., and Ive never personally got any OE kit from anyone except a set of forks from Germany many moons ago.

I think some people here are being a bit hard on LBS’s (!!) in general. There must be loads of reasons why 1 LBS does well and another fails – some luck some good/poor management. I used to live in a village in Yorkshire which had no right to have an LBS but had quite a good one as the village had a really good road cycling club which attracted members from the surrounding villages and so provided a ready line of custom for the LBS. Small things like the size/success of a local bike club can have a dramatic impact on the viability of some shops.

It must be hard though for an LBS now. My last 2 bikes were both an auction purchase (from a bankrupt store) and an internet purchase. the price saving was too big to turn down!

to be honest the shop that the op had/has is not a very good one.
whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don’t want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business.
if I need a bike bit, I want it now so that I can fix my bike and get on with whatever is planned.

I think this shows you have little comprehension about how a LBS could operate. If you think you can open an LBS which carries stock of everything tom, dick and harry might want when they just pop in, please go ahead and show us how it’s done.

I think this shows you have little comprehension about how a LBS could operate

on the opposite really. one of the shops I use for wheelbuilding also keeps in stock odd things like tents, and sleeping bags, oh and just last week he sold me a 8 speed shimano cassette. a proper well stocked shop, with staff who know their onions, who don’t try and fob you off with excuses and stuff you don’t need.

these type of shops are still open and are booming.

bigjim –

to be honest the shop that the op had/has is not a very good one. whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don’t want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business. if I need a bike bit, I want it now so that I can fix my bike and get on with whatever is planned.

I think this shows you have little comprehension about how a LBS could operate. If you think you can open an LBS which carries stock of everything tom, dick and harry might want when they just pop in, please go ahead and show us how it’s done.[/quote]

Half and half on this, you cannot carry everything that you might need but I’ve been in shops where they says its going to take a week to get it in stock, If I can get it in a few days, why cant they get it faster?

If I can get it in a few days, why cant they get it faster?

It’s possible that they are tied in to an agreement that they have to get certain ranges through the distributor otherwise they don’t get supplied with other stuff. Pub tenancies often work like this – the landlord has to buy the spirits from the brewery even though she/he could nip down to the Cash and Carry and get them cheaper from there.

So we need more LBS based on the “free house” model.

As many people have said above, LBS need to change.

Ben Cooper’s shop isn’t a ‘normal’ (as in he’s a bit special).

Is it one of these social enterprise type things to help the otherwise unemployable find gainful employment?

Genuine question here..Does a LBS have to use the official brand importers? Say for instance I wanted a new rear mech fitted. Could the shop not just buy it from CRC, or even better Halfords with a 10% BC discount. Even adding a mark-up it would appear that it would be cheaper than buying from the importers? You’d then also get the service fee for fitting.

I do most of my spannering myself, but would quite happily (and often do) buy from my LBS if something is a few quid more. Clearly though there is a limit on how much extra anybody is willing to spend to buy locally.

Could the shop not just buy it from CRC,

yes, common practice at the op’s shop I was once told.

I’ve worked in a shop where we did that. An alternative is for the customer to supply parts and pay for fitting.

Makes sense to me. I’d actually happily pay a premium over buying directly from CRC et al just to avoid the faf of having to run to the Royal Mail sorting office. I’d just assumed that for some reason a LBS can’t do this due to some agreement between the manufacturer & importers.

Sancho – Sorry to hear about Crosstrax. I’ve never been down myself (a bit far) but nearly did a few years back. Was looking to buy a Transition but ended up going with another brand in the end which you didn’t stock. Spoken to plenty who have used you though, all with nothing but good things to say.

It reminds me of the Pubco’s. The breweries who milk their own landlords, who run their own tied pubs, by screwing them on the beer they sell them, but then sell cheap to the supermarkets, who then further undermine their own pubs

Obviously I’m not an economist but it just seems like a suicidal business model

I’d almost say that breweries aren’t the ones killing pubs, it’s the internet, just like LBS’s.

Say you owned a freehouse, you can buy in niche beers and big brands, but it’s still not going to be much easier than running a pubco pub. Because even a microbrewery is going to try and sell to Tesco who sell it at £1.50 a bottle. The comparison would be for example Hope* or Chromag* coming out and saying they’ll only be available via LBS’s (or say Wytchwood turning round and saying they’re going cask only*).

What’s killing pubs is that they’re no longer needed as a social network. You can organise a night ride starting from some random car park on the internet, no need for a meeting in the pub, you can find your next boyfriend/girlfriend/bit on the side on tinder, why bother with the bar?

Pubs are adapting, good ones are doing what good LBS are/should be doing by offering something you can’t get online (a decent ‘gastropub’ meal), or the pub equivalent of the shop ride in a pub quiz, karaoke, hosting the local CAMRA group, etc.

*none of that is true, but might work for the LBS’s, but in reality we’d probably just buy another brand.

What’s killing pubs is that they’re no longer needed as a social network. You can organise a night ride starting from some random car park on the internet, no need for a meeting in the pub, you can find your next boyfriend/girlfriend/bit on the side on tinder, why bother with the bar?

Very true.

Don’t forget having a pointless “debate” with a bigot about politics or immigration, aka half the contents of the chat forum.

Open a LBS at a trail venue.

Likley to be miles from where people live, likley to be weekend trade only.

My LBS happened to be in the midst of the Surrey Hills, both local to my house and to the trails but that’s quite rare.

Open a LBS at a trail venue

Skyline cycles one at BPW etc all doing roaring business

“Only just last week he sold me a 8 speed shimano cassette”

Hes only been waiting to get rid of that since 1999.

Fwiw i looked at opening a local shop last year. There is demand

The maths just doesnt add up, i wasnt expecting a big wage but if i wanted the maths to work i had to run it out of my garage as anywhere (small) commercial just meant you had to clear silly money just to keep the door open.

Now i know why there is demand and no shops locally i regard as good. So i travel 60 miles to my old shop.

Edinburgh bicycle coop are closing their shedffield shop soon.

A top tip for anyone planning on opening their own shop – a trait I admire and think is crazy in equal doses – be patient for the right premises. Anyone who’s been to see us will know we have a pretty cool little location. Its not glamorous, but its cool and in a good spot, with riding in the back yard pretty much. We waited months to find that place. Best part of a year. Not only is it quite cool, its cheap as. I think we probably couldn’t have survived if we’d gone to a mainstream ‘high street’ warehouse equivalent. Now we’re bigger that would be fine, but of course we don’t want to leave and are in discussions to take over more of the site, but even now going to mainstream rents would be a big , big jump, certainly round our way. Patience and a lot of hunting will reap dividends.

The rumours about Edinburgh coop closing in Sheffield have been doing the rounds since it opened.

cant believe everything you read on the internet can you

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/edinburgh-bicycle-co-operative-announce-closure-of-sheffield-branch/019103

It’s a tough game for any small business. Everyone plays hard ball when your small! yet bend over backwards and hold in such high regard big corps, who stick two fingers up, don’t pay tax (collect it off employees though), bully suppliers, treat employees like shit, decamp their entire production to Asia/cheaper labour markets, start off cheap but once competition is reduced/bought up, reduce quality and ramp up prices relentlessly, you couldn’t make it up! Sorry slightly off topic rant.

Some good points from those in the know. 😉 Nice to see the wannabe Claude Littner, armchair never put their money where their mouths are, corporate trouble shooters sorting things out as usual 😆

Sorry Ben but got to ask….. You say you don’t deal with OEM stock, suggest you go via the distributor and present a model of a successful bike shop/ bike manufacturer…. With that being so how do you compete spec wise with the mega discounters? Does direct selling really save that much?

If so, lbs’ are doomed as why wouldn’t more people follow your model and therefore dispense with the need for a shop?

Is it one of these social enterprise type things to help the otherwise unemployable find gainful employment?

Hey!

Actually, that’s uncomfortably close to the truth 😀

ghostlymachine – Member
TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren’t LBS customers.

Not sure that is true TBH.

We did the bike park / shop very successfully at Freeborn Esher. Shop open 9 years, bike park 8.5 years. At its peak 250 riders a week visiting from all over UK. Park built by passionate volunteers with cash support for material from Specialized UK and Freeborn.

Specialist retailer focused on gravity / enduro / dirt jump markets also UK importer of brands Ellsworth, Banshee, Stan’s, Devinci.

Tiny premises and 2 staff plus access to exclusive brands and oe stock meant very profitable. Shop rammed full of frames/forks/wheels, body armour, full face helmets, dh tires and so much other kit. I’d typically have 30 pairs of disc brakes in stock on any day. I could sell 4-5 dh bikes a week. Loads of custom builds, riders from London visiting to get all the kit we stock that London shops didn’t.

Ironically the landlord killed us. When we knocked down the north shore (freeriding had its day) all the dirt imported and heavy plant got the land owners nervous and our landlord panicked. Our lease was then subject to weekly (!) review, no basis on which to continue trading.

Park flattened by land owner, shop following a month later.

A unique circumstance, probably never to be repeated.

some odd “visitors” at Esher from time to time too, certainly helped put the shop and park on the map 😉

the legend that is Rob Warner

the “godfather” of freeride, Wade Simmons

Sorry Ben but got to ask….. You say you don’t deal with OEM stock, suggest you go via the distributor and present a model of a successful bike shop/ bike manufacturer…. With that being so how do you compete spec wise with the mega discounters? Does direct selling really save that much?

No we do OEM – thats how we can compete. I was saying I’d personally not been sold OE stuff over my many years of being a customer to the likes of CRC and Wiggle.

Basing it on what i’ve noticed over the time i’ve spent in shops and racing/riding across most of europe. The people who race/ride hard/actually go out for the day to “cycle” rather than the cycling being a means of getting somewhere. *usually* do their own spannering. Most shops i’ve worked in the majority (85%) of bikes that come in are used for leisurely pottering or commuting.

As i agreed earlier though, the huge numbers of newcomers to cycling has probably skewed this a lot.

What’s to stop a bike shop shipping in frames, selling as an own brand then buy stock direct, rather than from Madison etc?

The cost, there’ll be a minimum order of frames, and minimum order quantity for groupsets to ge OE pricing, hence some of the smaller UK frame suppliers selling OE stuff after market as they can’t possibly sell enough bikes to use all the minimum order quantity of groupsets/suspension

Nothing. See Merlin, Ribble rtc.