Mboy.
Ton has an issue with Mr
And no I am not blaming anyone for the shop closing
We couldn’t agree a new lease and the landlord did a 180 on discussions we had been having
To n’s comment is just typical of him as he feels we are a bad shop because he doesn’t like me.
We are successful and hugely respected
We are looking for new premises and working out a way to continue.
We have done a huge amount for the local cycling community over the years
And I don’t know why I am bothering to even type this
I will get on with what I love doing
And keep doing it well

Ok sorry to hear that. Your previous post doesn’t read well though if you don’t know the history!

I’m dreading the greedy landlord thing… It’s rife everywhere. Shop round the corner from mine would be perfect to expand into, but the rent is ridiculous (as in almost twice what I think it’s realistically worth compared to what I’m paying now). And…? Well it’s been sat there, unused for almost 3 years now! But they won’t budge on the rent! Absolutely astounds me to be quite honest… But then I’m not an arrogant multi millionaire that’s inherited a big investment portfolio, so what do I know?

Fingers crossed for you. Someone out there will value your worth to the community and offer you a mutually beneficial lease on a property I’m sure…

binners – Member
buy parts cheaper from CRC than on the best dealer trade prices
I really don’t get this approach at all. My LBS says he can’t buy a groupset for anywhere near the price that CRC are selling them at. Surely if you’re a distributor then you don’t want to end up with a couple of big retailers being the only people selling your stuff? So why screw the little guys?

Madison distribute Shimano in the UK. CRC don’t buy from them though, hence the discrepancy in pricing. Maybe Madison need to strike a better deal with Shimano or reduce their margin. Maybe Shimano need to look at their OEM vs Retail pricing.

Endura have been castigated on here for doing the sort of price control you are suggesting.

The unit my LBS is in is up for rent 🙁 !
I’ve heard nothing from them though. They must be keeping it on the down low for now. I hope the can work something out. They are fantastic guys and run one of the local riding clubs out of passion.

The huge lease cost makes me wonder how sustainable it is though. We are looking at an annual lease in six figures. They never seem really busy and don’t have an online site. I wonder where the majority of their revenue comes from?

Perhaps STW could do one of their interviews with SRAM/shimano Madison/Fishers as to the state of pricing and the huge discrepancies in the market.

While this case looks like there’s external factors (and you have my genuine sympathies), Benpinnick nails it saying that change is what’s needed for a modern small business to survive in a new economy.

It’s not just bike shops – the same market realignment happened in the US real estate sector in 2013, and the same principles of identifying a niche, pushing hard and dominating that market sector apply.

Data that I have seen shows a sales slowdown in the latter quarter of 2015, compounded by oversupply and bad planning (at retailer and distributor level) which led to too much stock, expanded premises, overhiring in a peak period and then the resultant cashflow loading when the market started to contract.

Also factor in consumer expectation around “sale” periods and the trend to hold off and wait for offers around Jan and it’s easy to see how many came unstuck.

The interesting thing is that while the road market appears to be going into plateau, MTB is now on a growth phase with really strong intent to purchase (at all points from £500 right up to £2k+) on bikes and P&A.

The trick now is for retailers to build a more effective model of mixed revenue streams – service, refined and narrowed product offering, better sales training for staff to direct customers to the products you sell (and you shouldn’t sell anything you don’t believe in and evangelise about anyway, so this isn’t a “hard sell” proposition), use of the workshop/retail space to host evenings for women/beginners/aspiring racers and showcasing/selling your skills. Capture data at all these events and market to them. Build a social media presence.

It’s a very interesting time for retail based businesses right now – contrary to the doom and gloom that some would have you believe, there IS money out there and also lots of opportunity – but to survive, you have to adapt.

What andyrm said…

Road has slowed/plateaud, MTB is in boom at the moment across the board, last quarter for 2015 was a tough one (finished a lot of LBS’ off that couldn’t deal with the contraction), and there’s still too much 2015 stock on the shelves right now as a result. But there’s money out there…

Case in point, already spoken to a customer this morning on the phone… “Price me up an Evil Insurgent would you” (to go alongside his Yeti SB5c no less!) “I was going to buy a new car, but I don’t really enjoy them like I used to and the depreciation in the first year would be twice the price of the new bike!”

For us
We had changed with the times
Our model had switched to servicing and we have been selling our own brand frames
I have given up with the UK distribution model.
Our workshop is packed out.
We are constantly buying tools because they are wearing out from so much use.
We encourage and help customers buy online
We buy our sram and shimano kit online
The

We will see what happens in the future and keep an eye out for a British designed and manufactured carbon range of mountain bikes

Our workshop is packed out.
We are constantly buying tools because they are wearing out from so much use.

can only agree, my LBS is the same and just moving to larger shop.

I think most of us can fix mend the basics but I do rely on my LBS for the tricky jobs or where special tools are needed and the likes of TF Tuned. I do buy on line for consumables, clothing and boots. Just better choice, right size and competitive price. I cant see the local shop competing with the range of stock and sizes.

Know your market and customers and aim for that. Don’t try and take on the big boys.

Mboy.
Ton has an issue with Mr
And no I am not blaming anyone for the shop closing
We couldn’t agree a new lease and the landlord did a 180 on discussions we had been having
To n’s comment is just typical of him as he feels we are a bad shop because he doesn’t like me.

firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.
shops like woodrupps in leeds are a testament to this.

secondly, this is aimed at Ed, wtf are you talking about.
when have I ever had a bad word with you? can you please remind me.

Madison distribute Shimano in the UK. CRC don’t buy from them though, hence the discrepancy in pricing. Maybe Madison need to strike a better deal with Shimano or reduce their margin. Maybe Shimano need to look at their OEM vs Retail pricing.

Aren’t the middle-man distributors part of the problem? Basically we are paying extra for an unnecessary link in the retail chain. A handful of companies dictating the price of just about everything cycling related – does this happen in many other retail areas?

Are you proposing that every shop deals directly with Shimano, etc?

Pretty well every retail sector will have something similar set up, the main exceptions would be retailers like M&S who have their own production and supply chain.

Pretty well every retail sector will have something similar set up, the main exceptions would be retailers like M&S who have their own production and supply chain.

That’s not really correct, is it?

When I worked in the food industry we would supply M&S, plus all of the other big retailers. We didn’t supply food to a distribution company who had sole rights to supply the shops and define the price.

Bike shops are different model because there are so many small independents, but it bothers me that Madison are the only importer of Shimano, for example.

And I haven’t seen this distribution method in other hobby areas, although I haven’t looked into it so maybe talking rubbish! Do Shimano supply the UK with fishing gear through a distributor? Do camera shops use this method? And so on..

The idea of the distributor is that through the power of their bulk purchasing they are able to introduce economies of scale and provide buffering on stock levels. This isn’t happening (effectively) as CRC, bike discount, etc are able to retail at below trade prices. If the distributor can’t access these prices, and don’t appear to be that great at distribution in sensible timescales either what is their purpose?

If the distributor can’t access these prices, and don’t appear to be that great at distribution in sensible timescales either what is their purpose?

Dealing with warranties of the super cheap stuff bought from CRC etc

I too have recently closed my shop, 24 years gone. In fact we’ve been trading since 1904, shopping habits have now changed forever.
Squeezed by increasing rates/rent, pressure on margins and a drop in sales.
I never did it for the money, I enjoyed my job, nothing can replace that.
Sadly I’m now leaving the bike trade for good, I see no future in it anymore.

‘USE THEM OR LOSE THEM’

Dealing with warranties of the super cheap stuff bought from CRC etc[/quote]They should either have that priced into their agreement with the manufacturer or refuse to work on stuff they haven’t supplied. It certainly shouldn’t affect the cost that the can supply to their own retailers.

But you aren’t/weren’t exporting.

M&S may have been a poor example, cameras? The big companies, Nikon, Canon, Olympus, etc. have their own local (UK) franchises/distributors. Camera shops that import from say Honk Kong and sell here are the “grey imports”. The manufacturers know from the serial numbers on the cameras where it was “meant” to be sold so might not honour the warranty – certainly this was the case some time ago, updates to GATT and possible legal challenges may have changed this.

firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.

It really isn’t. The rent on my old place almost doubled in 5 years, I was seriously thinking about packing it in. I was very lucky to find this new place with much lower rent, and a much nicer landlord, and now doing much, much better.

The old landlord stiffed me for an additional £8k to move out, and now he’s rented the place to a pet grooming chain for an even higher rent.

Sorry to read that Sancho – best of luck with future ventures.

firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.

I’m going to guess you don’t work in a LBS. 😐

Sadly I’m now leaving the bike trade for good, I see no future in it anymore.

Yep I think there are quite a lot of people starting to feel like you too, the market is saturated with bike businesses with more people sinking their cash into stuff each week, I’d expect to see an awful lot of new start ups to go pop in the next 12 months. 🙁

Considering the bulk of turnover in a bike shop comes from selling bikes, its going to be interesting to see if the proposed new model of coffee/service/fitness actually provides any proper revenue

When I worked in a shop this wasn’t the case. We had a good and well respected workshop and made far more in service and P&A than selling low mark-up complete bikes.

Money is in service/parts not bike sales for bike shops.

@bencooper

but there are plenty of bike shops that are booming business wise, so surely some of them are doing something right?

2 shops I use on a regular basis are doing pretty well, I know this because I am friends with the owner of one and the manager of the other.
they both have internet shops, but are still very good lbs type places.
maybe the business plans that the shops shutting down have been using, is not a very good business plan.

to be honest the shop that the op had/has is not a very good one.
whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don’t want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business.
if I need a bike bit, I want it now so that I can fix my bike and get on with whatever is planned.

It’s not that simple though is it Ton, not just a case of good V bad shops, other factors of what products they can get due to what trade accounts they can get, the location of the shop ETC ETC.
The just vast range of products available mean that it’s only the massive warehouses that can hold stock of ‘everything’.

Ben Cooper’s shop isn’t a ‘normal’ (as in he’s a bit special) bike shop as such so not the best example.

Bike shops are different model because there are so many small independents, but it bothers me that Madison are the only importer of Shimano, for example.

Wrong.

Chicken (if they still exist) import shimano, as do raleigh. Madison have the biggest range and are the main distributor.

Speaking of cra* LBS, is Dave Hind still trading ? 👿

Someone touched on the distribution model about a shop needing to have an order with the distributor for X-amount before it became free delivery. This meant that the shop couldn’t just get an XT 11-36 cassette (for example) in for a customer as the delivery costs would be prohibitive.

Compare this with the motor trade where you have intermediate distributors (usually seem to be called XXX Factors) that are constantly delivering parts. If I drop my car off for a service and they don’t have the part then they ring up the Factor and the part is delivered that day. Obviously the size/weight/value of car parts is pretty high so this sort of delivery model can be better absorbed but if LBSs are to compete then something like this needs to exist.

whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don’t want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business.

And this is what is partly killing the LBS. When I started 6 years ago as a small shop we could just about keep a wide enough range of say wheels in stock to cover pretty much every eventuality. (26 rim, 26 disk, bolted axles, quick release, bolt through, 700c hybrid rim brake and disk, 700c road at a few price points, etc etc). It was still a lot of wheels, but possible. Now it simply isn’t, the ‘industry’ has introduced so many different sizes, standards, speeds, etc etc that it does take a huge warehouse to keep everything in stock. No LBS can have everything in stock, and half the stuff they now have in stock is obsolete and losing value.

To cover rent and costs an LBS needs to be able to sell bikes, parts, accessories and have a well run workshop. A workshop on its own has too many costs (staff pay is the biggie) and takes up too much space (bikes take up storage space, this has to be paid for). At the moment there is no profit in the retail side of things, and even a workshop with queues out of the door cannot take up the slack.

I’m not surprised shops are closing and I hope the OP will be able to find gainful employment or another way of combining their love of cycling with an income.

Bikeshops and manufacturers need to get this 3d printing thing dialled.

Imagine wandering in and being like “i need component x from manufacturer y from 2014”

They look up the CAD file or whatever and quote a price for time/materials etc. and you pop back in bit to pick up your part.

Shimples.

I don’t judge whether a bike shop is good or bad by what stock it holds.

Speaking of cra* LBS, is Dave Hind still trading ?

On very shaky ground I believe. This is all hearsay as I’d never darken his door, but his better employee has left and there is no stock of even the most basic consumables in his store. Allegedly.

Sorry to hear of your woes OP, I hope you get a suitable new lease.

firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.

Surely you cannot be that stupid? To come on a thread read the first post, type what you said and then get upset when someone rises to your rancid bait.

To be fair, both Madison and Fisher offer free next day delivery on Shimano and Sram now.
The feeling I got from the early trade shows this year is that distributers are keen to try and support LBS/IBD’s whether by margin support or exclusive lines. I think there is a genuine concern about a few massive outlets dictating terms to suppliers, a tail wagging the dog scenario, and I think the only way they can avoid that is by actively driving trade to the independents.

That’s not to say it’s not tough out there at the moment. It is. VERY.
I would echo what everyone else has said – sales fell flat last year, the shops that are experiencing massive growth are the exception rather than the rule. I would say that the extra revenue from the “cycling boom” tends to head to Germany via das internet.

/Ramble

Good luck OP and enjoy the riding

Only analogy I have is local wine merchant. He is very honest with what he stocks and doesn’t stock. So he will be clear, “I don’t stock XYZ because Majestic buy that in bulk and sell below my cost. However, I have sourced a similar wine from a smaller vineyard that is better IMO etc.” He also targets exclusive and clever deals eg buying wines from just outside the boundaries of a particular appellation and selling those as excellent deals. So identifying the correct market segment and products is key.

Re Ton’s points – I used to try to use my local book shop but in the end was fed up with no stock and having to wait. Compare this with Amazon and “look inside”, 24 hour delivery or immediate delivery to kindle. Sorry it becomes a no-brainer. Yes the book shop closed but it simply didn’t fill the need. The world moves on…

Local pub constantly changes hands and is now closing due to demands from freeholder. Kills the owners’ cash flow every time.

Having said that – my LBSs including Jambas favourite still get my custom. Being a mechanical numpty I value their experience and advice.

but there are plenty of bike shops that are booming business wise, so surely some of them are doing something right?

Maybe. Or maybe they have landlords who don’t raise the rent massively.

I have no idea about running a normal LBS. My general feeling is if your competition is CRC and Wiggle, you’ve already lost – even trying to compete with them on price and stock availability is a waste of time and money.

And, I say it a lot, but STW users aren’t the best target market for the LBS.

TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren’t LBS customers.

And what’s that coming over the hill?

Wiggle/CRC will have so much purchasing power I can see them opening a few Megastores. They will kill the competition with ‘click and collect’ and a massive stock range.

Glad I don’t own an LBS

Marko

Sheffield has a lot of bike shops, 2 smaller ones have recently closed down, one was ok but started to drop in quality, the other was frankly rubbish.

I’ve never had good service at two of the existing larger shops but they seem to be doing just fine.

I have been to Crosstrax and didn’t rate their customer service so just never went back.

In my view, when there is so much choice around you have to be good or big enough that being rubbish doesn’t matter.

TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren’t LBS customers.

STW being an internet forum means selection bias. Having recently joined a flesh and blood road club I’d disagree. 300 members, predominantly newbies as it’s benefited from the boom, but even the long-term, A-ride, middle-aged enthusiasts seem to rely on the LBS for all their work and a lot of their purchases, and those of us that shop online and self-spanner are a minority. One guy just totalled up his spend this year in his favoured shop…. £14,000 😯

Open a LBS at a trail venue.

-Not high-street rent
-Offer bike hire / demos
-On the spot servicing, fixing, trying out new stuff
-Fitting of parts customers order online
-Guiding, coaching, fitness, skills
-Target the cash rich/time poor customers

Offer value added as a result of your experience, expertise and the fact you cant buy a service online.

The internet has changed our way of life and sport.