Labour Party problems

eg Corbyn invites a jewish concentration camp survivor to speak, in his speech (the jewish concentration camp survivor to be clear, not Corbyn) he is critical of Israels current policy, apparently that makes Corbyn an antisemite, and the press bang on about it unrelentingly for over 12 months (never mentioning that the person making the comments was a jewish concentration camp survivor and in fact actually and bizarrely labeling him as antisemite as well).

And not mentioning that Corbyn left the meeting soon after it started, whereas Louise Ellman MP stayed for the whole thing and was among those jeering the Holocaust survivor.

What is your measure of a collapsed economy? And when?

10-20% less tax revenue within 2 years of brexit.

So what’s your plan?

well having just seen the breaking news it’s a masterpiece, all weekend and they failed to come up with a coherent message, what they stand for and what they will be doing differently.

So one of them just stood up and said labour is a racist party. And they want people to take them seriously? The party that has fought racism and prejudice for a century, is now suddenly racist because 7 MP have just realised that they are in the wrong party. I’d have a lot more respect for this lot if they just admitted that they misunderstood what the labour party represents and that they don’t agree with it. But no, they have to brand old colleagues and thousands of activists as racists and bigots. They should resign their seats and let the voters decide. They won’t of course, because they’re cowards.

@ Mike – Are you truly expecting a new manifesto on day 1?

It isn’t day one, unless you have been in a coma for the past 2 years.

Are you truly expecting a new manifesto on day 1?

I’d expect a little more that a whinge, do they have a collective belief or are they 7 individuals who agree on nothing?

If you have the plan to resign on the same day the least you could do is get a proper press release ready to go.

I suspect these seven have just signed the death warrant on their political careers. And in a few cases, it won’t be any great loss. But this is a very bad moment for the Labour Party. Parties do not split under competent leadership.

For me, their mistake is in doing this too early. They should have waited until after Brexit happens (which is looking ever more likely).

Bit early to set out their stall if they’re planning on expanding their membership with non-nutter Tories.

I’d expect a little more that a whinge, do they have a collective belief or are they 7 individuals who agree on nothing?

They’ve called themselves a group of independent MPs.  That would imply they’re all standing with no party allegiance, not even to each other.  So the group has no manifesto, because then they wouldn’t be independent.

@ deadlydarcy – And who is standing against Brexit at the moment? Surely someone should be shouting at Jeremy and the tories with their ERG inspired Brexit now? If not now, when?

I applaud their move. They are a group of politicians that believe in something and have made a stand. Maybe more will follow, who knows? Somebody had to do something surely?

I don’t blame them for leaving and they’re being very reasonable in what they’re saying. Who knows what, if anything happens next.

Certainly with chaos in Parliament and both major parties plus voter dissatisfaction across the board there has never been a better time to try to kick start a new party *if* that’s where this leads.

I applaud their move. They are a group of politicians that believe in something and have made a stand.

Which is what?

They should have waited until after Brexit happens

If you want to stop Brexit happening, waiting until after it’s happened is a poor strategy.

I suspect these seven have just signed the death warrant on their political careers.

Their careers were already dead. Anyone ever heard of Angela Smith and Mike Gapes before? We all know about Leslie and Umunna throwing their dummies out of the pram after the centrists lost their stranglehold on the party. Berger will be booted out by liverpool voters at the first opportunity. No doubt because all scousers are anti-semites. What they won’t admit is that they are where they are because the centrist politics they advocate completely failed to address the issues important to normal working people who the labour party are supposed to represent. I’ll say again, if they really do believe they are right, then they should resign their seats and let the voters decide.

If I worked for an incompetent old man who was helping my main competitor at my company’s expense I’d be tempted to look for another job too.

@ Mike – HTH’s

Splitters article

And according to Kuenssberg they are already receiving abuse.

And who is standing against Brexit at the moment?

Not these clowns, they have muddled their supposed “anti-brexit” message, if they were genuinly anti-brexit they would have my full support, but they are just using it as an excuse to take down Corbyn and make labour tory lite again.

If you want to stop Brexit happening, waiting until after it’s happened is a poor strategy.

If they want to stop Brexit they need to convince a lot of Labour MPs to vote with them. As in the Peston quote above, this doesn’t look like a very good way of doing that!

Have they been bribed by May? Is this where some of the extra money she was going to find for some Labour constituencies has gone?

(I don’t have an opinion on this, and don’t know the MPs involved, but it would be a classic British Establishment divide and conquer move)

Not these clowns, they have muddled their supposed “anti-brexit” message

I’m listening to the conference right now. They are very clearly Anti-Brexit, there’s no muddle whatsoever.

@ Mike – HTH’s

The one I’d already read, not really, nothing positive, nothing about what they hoop to achieve, just they are all going to do it on their own. It’s not the start of something new, it’s just a wandering off into the bushes.

Mike Gapes said: “I am sickened that Labour is now perceived by many as a racist, anti-Semitic party.”

And why exactly is that….. Do many people actually believe that – most I’ve read or seen don’t at all.

I enjoyed the bit where Umunna was banging on about the importance of sticking together. He did well to keep a straight face.

With rumours of a snap election before long it’s going to be hilarious to see this mob booted out and then quickly forgotten about.

**** idiots, quit because of the handling of brexit I understand, but bringing up the bullshit antisemitism charges just shows their real motivation is not about doing the right thing for the electorate.

so you know better than John McDonnell then, as he seems to think that there is a problem ? :

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/john-mcdonnell-rebukes-labour-anti-semitism-smears/

You anti-semitism deniers remind me of the lance armstrong deniers 🙂

be intersting to see how Labour leadership respond, double down or try & find a solution?

I cant see any Tory Mps seriously thinking about joining them. AT least not until the Brexit final destination is clear, Soubry, Grieve etc would only do it if the ERG get their way & force a hard brexit.
The flip side to that would be Mays deal or an even softer Brexit prompting the ERG to go over to UKIP

Looking at the SDP split even the Tories unhappy with their leadership didnt join (1 did?)

After the SDP split tho, Foot resigned & LAbour dropped their anti EEC & nuclear dissarmamnet policies, but the SDP MPs never returned.
If Corbyn were to go I can see most of these MPs coming back, thered be a momentum backlash though. compared to Tory MPs, where its much easier to flip between UKIP & Con.

Tory policy is still deporting the windrush generation over the governments own paperwork mishap, but look a squirel…

In salford this weekend the police were unable to investigate hate crimes because of cuts, but look a squirel…

These clowns aren’t about opposing brexit or racism, they want to be leaders in a tory lite party, they are in it for themselves. Which is, of course, very tory. They don’t care about racism, or brexit or social justice, they want power, and they don’t care about the consequences of their actions.

David lammy has shown far more opposition to brexit and racism than these clueless ****, if any of them had made just one of the speeches he has over the past couple of years, they might have some credibility, but they have none.

You anti-semitism deniers remind me of the lance armstrong deniers 🙂

their not denying it, theyre saying that unlike in the Tories were xenophobia, racism, islamaphobia win you support rather than cause crisis (see Borris Johnson’s entire career at the telegraph) its used as a cosh by the rw press

so you know better than John McDonnell then, as he seems to think that there is a problem ? :

A problem, a massive problem, a small problem? are the majority of Labour party members anti Semitic? Is the reaction proportional to the size of the problem? Is the story proportional to it?

Many of the claims against Corbyn himself which are repeated extensively don’t even hold up when you read them objectively.

In a similar way how racist is the Labour party? Is it endemic?

TurnerGuy
You anti-semitism deniers remind me of the lance armstrong deniers

When the label of anti-semite is applied to people who oppose the way the Israeli state oppresses the Palestinians whose land they stole, then I’ll proudly wear that label.

We have seen an Orwellian change of definition of anti-semitism.

thered be a momentum backlash though.

Momentum is as much a mess as the labour party as a whole, it’s leadership trying to drive policies unwanted by its membership. IMO if the labour leadership actually started to oppose brexit, momentum’s leadership would be bypassed as that is what the membership support.

some in Labour just proving the splitters right, however

Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we’ll keep the red flag flying here.

— Young Labour (@YoungLabourUK) February 18, 2019

some in Labour just proving the splitters right, however

Whilst a pretty shit song it is the Labour party anthem.

After the SDP split tho, Foot resigned & LAbour dropped their anti EEC & nuclear dissarmamnet policies, but the SDP MPs never returned.

Agree, this is far more about resigning and encouraging Corbyn to back remain/second refferendum. It’s not really about a new party and there weren’t really saying that it was about starting a new party.

If Corbyn were to go I can see most of these MPs coming back, thered be a momentum backlash though

Not so sure about this. I suspect many of their careers were already over and they were probably about to get deselected anyway. Momentum has an iron grip on the party now. When Corbyn goes the rule changes have ensured he will be replaced with a momentum candidate. The only thing that can stop that is if there literally was no Momentum candidate to replace Corbyn which incredibly seems quite possible. MacDonnel/Abbot/Corbyn/Skinner really were the last of the line, there just doesn’t seem to be an heir apparent.

Anyway, I’m happy. 7 people shouting ‘REMAIN’ in the HoC is a very good thing IMHO no matter how short lived it is before the next election.

anthem it maybe, but calling them cowards & traitors is just silly

you could get away with traitirs but considering the ton of abuse they are already receiving on social media, its hardly cowardly.

I think they are probably all well aware that they could lose their seats over this too, misguided, foolhardy you could definitely say that, but cowardly is wrong.

some in Labour just proving the splitters right, however

+1

Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we’ll keep the red flag flying here.

John, Chapter 11, Verse 35.

I think they are probably all well aware that they could lose their seats over this too, misguided, foolhardy you could definitely say that, but cowardly is wrong.

Considering several of them were already getting a tad worried about their local party deselecting them (not as the fruitcakes claim Corbyn doing so) I am not sure it is that great to jump first.
What is cowardly though is not putting themselves up for a byelection.

A better anthem is
” blind acceptance is a sign of stupid fools who stand in line “

What is cowardly though is not putting themselves up for a byelection.

dont worry Corbyns going to get a GE any day now………

What is cowardly though is not putting themselves up for a byelection.

They should probably have offered it post March – there is no way any MP should be removing themselves from the votes coming up.