Be careful proving binners wrong as he’ll flounce like he did from the EU thread.

A good day to bury bad news, etc.

Shadow Minister pushes revolting anti-semitic imagery. Says he didn't. Confronted with evidence. Admits he did, after all. Still a member of the Labour Party. Still a Shadow Minister. But, sure, Labour takes anti-semitism ever so seriously. https://t.co/YIjIy5vOLi

— Jo Maugham QC (@JolyonMaugham) March 13, 2019

Oh, and this,
https://twitter.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1105230303927373826?s=19

And yet more lies and untruths……

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47952275

Would anyone be brave enough to forecast how Labour will perform in the EU elections today?

Will Jeremy’s cunning fence sitting policy work? Or will the be humiliated by St Nige of Faarange and Bojo’s political party’s of hate?

Labour will do very poorly loosing seats and votes – but will outperform the tories significantly. tories around 1% of the vote quite possibly less. labour around 18%

Tories will lose most of their MSPs to brexit. labour will lose a few to greens and lib dems

tories 10% not 1%

With a remain Tom Watson at the helm I would have voted labour for the first time in my life.

I rejoiced when Corbyn was elected, sure it meant the Labour party was dead and buried. Guess I didn’t reckon on the sheer number of fruit loops with voting cards out there.

…..Says the brexiter 😂😂😂😂

As I said on the other thread, anyone voting for the Brexit party no longer gets to criticize Corbyn over the IRA or anti-Semiticism!

Watson – I can’t make my mind up. Some utterly disgraceful behaviour in the early days after Corbyn became leader but since then done a very good job of holding things together.

Watson couldn’t do much worse, while I agree with most of Corbyn’s beliefs he is an awful leader. He really is not the right man for the job.

Would anyone be brave enough to forecast how Labour will perform in the EU elections today?

Appallingly. A proper opposition, worthy of referring to as such without snorting with derision, would be looking at absolutely cleaning up as the Brexit party hoover up Tory votes.

But when Magic Grandad voiced his opinion that their absolutely terrible local election results were a sign that voters ‘wanted us to get on and deliver Brexit’, that sealed their fate today. They’re going to haemorrhage votes to the Lib Dems and the Greens in every seat

Sadly, when they do, that clueless Brexity muppet will come to the same conclusion

But Labour have traditionally been against EU free movement of Labour, because it hits low paid British workers the hardest, you know, the people the Labour party are supposed to represent?

They’re going to haemorrhage votes to the Lib Dems and the Greens in every seat

Depends how many Labour supporters are pro-Brussels. Those that aren’t will likely vote brexit party

Would anyone be brave enough to forecast how Labour will perform in the EU elections today?

I don’t know, I always get the feeling that Pollsters attract the more engaged voters.

I’ve switched from Labour to the Libs, which took a lot.

My Wife thought about it, but when it came down to it, voted for Labour as she always has done, Labour and Corbyn’s saving grace could be loyalty built up over a lifetime, not the last few years.

I watched a re-run of HIGNFY last night/this morning hosted by Alan Johnson (this current series). He mentioned that 66% of Labour voters nationally voted to remain in the EU. Assuming that is true, it does lend weight to the leadership ignoring the voter base.

I watched a re-run of HIGNFY last night/this morning hosted by Alan Johnson (this current series). He mentioned that 66% of Labour voters nationally voted to remain in the EU. Assuming that is true, it does lend weight to the leadership ignoring the voter base

I thought it was higher.

Labour is evolving, The old ‘New Labour’ of the Blair, Brown and Miliband. They aren’t socialists, they’re Social Democrats. It’s a kind of individual socialism – the opportunity for individuals to try to better themselves – so elements of capitalism, but at the same time using taxation to protect and support those who cannot and removing barrier to social movement. So, under this style of government we had record numbers of University Students, Economic stimulus away from places already successfully and record NHS spending, but higher taxes and a more fluid and competitive jobs markets – more economic migrants etc.

Corbyn and others within the Party who support him are Socialists, they believe in Society working as a whole for the common good and fair policies like equal pay for equal work. So if you’re a 21 year old female working next to a 40 year old male doing the same job, you should be paid the same. You further yourselves collectively bargaining with the employer for wages and terms etc. You protect jobs by limiting economic migration of people to the job and the job away from you through globalisation. Freedom of movement is a fundamental aspect of the EU and a form of Globalisation – move low-skilled work to developing countries and high-skilled work to developed countries with higher standards of education etc.

There are pros and cons to each, but they’re incompatible in a lot of ways.

Corbyn is not stupid, he won’t say to voters who voted for Labour because of their Social Democratic policies “you’re not welcome anymore” but he equally cannot change his views to support them. He believes that the last 10 years of Austerity has created enough downtrodden workers who’ll vote for Socialist policies, or he just doesn’t care about ‘winning’ (Socialists aren’t as a rule of thumb competitive people) and see his position as opposition leader as a chance to push socialist policy onto the government.

Given the history of the UK, a large proportion of people who voted for Labour as young adults (when we set out our own principles) aren’t socialists, so it’s a surprise they aren’t happy with current policy, but equally during those years JC was very anti-Labour policy himself and there are lots of people who stopped voting labour because of it.

So if you’re a 21 year old female working next to a 40 year old male doing the same job, you should be paid the same.

Which has very little to do with socialism. Collectivism, protectionism yes but policies on discrimination (or lack thereof) doesn’t link into most political schools of thought.

And to add to Jeremy’s mounting issues to deal with.

The Equality watchdog looks to open an investigation into Labour and its handling of anti-Semitism complaints.

Clickety click

And now a member of the ruling NEC has been accused of anti semitic language (and not for the first time either).

Peter Willsman allegedly accused

Didn’t it take Labour just a few hours to agree to expel Alastair Campbell?

I did think this was very apt…

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2g66YnD]LibDems[/url] by Ben Freeman, on Flickr

Peter Willsman now suspended.

How on earth is Peter not expelled????

Why does no one in the media ask more questions about these ‘allegations’? I’m no Labour Party defender and they have behaved foolishly ref Alistair Campbell, but as far as I can see, this latest matter is about someone asking perfectly legitimate questions about the partiality of the Israeli state when it comes to its relationship with Labour. It’s nothing to do with anti-semitism.

He is accused of saying: “This is off the record. It’s almost certain who is behind all this anti-Semitism against Jeremy [Corbyn], almost certainly it’s the Israeli embassy.”

He’s been suspended for THAT????

Thank **** I’m not a member of the Labour Party!

Do people have any idea how much the Israeli government has to loose if Corbyn were ever to become UK Prime Minister? The UK is a very major arms to supplier to Israel, and Israel needs access to British weapons to maintain its relentless repression of the Palestinian people. The UK is also a Permanent Member of the UN Security Council, Corbyn being UK Prime Minister would be an absolute disaster for them.

The Israeli embassy is the permanent diplomatic mission of the Israeli government, that’s the role of an embassy. It’s there to serve the interests of the home country. To suggest that the Israeli embassy isn’t briefing against Corbyn or actively engaging in undermining him, is as absurd as claiming that during the Apartheid era the South African embassy wasn’t actively engaging in undermining the Anti-apartheid Movement in the UK – of course it was. And claiming that it was didn’t make you an anti-white racist!

But let’s be absolutely clear about one thing, which I have to admit tragically even some people on the left fail to fully grasp. THERE IS NO GLOBAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY! AND THERE HAS NEVER BEEN! To suggest there is, is vile, disgusting, and racist.

What there is without doubt, however, is coordinated activity among Zionists. Zionism is a political ideology. It’s NOT a race, nor a religion, it’s just an ideology. A great deal of the most outspoken opponents of Zionism and Israel are Jews – never ever forget that.

A couple of weeks ago I attended a demonstration in Central London to mark Nakba Day (the Great Catastrophe). Among the thousands who attended were many Jews, proudly proclaiming their Jewishness with banners and placards. Were they anti-Semites???

Included among them were Orthodox Jews, as in this photo :

Along the route there were 3 or 4 pro-Israeli Jews waving the Israeli flag and shouting pro-Israeli slogans. I was walking along side the Orthodox Jews and when they saw the 3 or 4 pro-Israeli counter-demonstrators they turned towards them pointing their fingers and chanted “shame on you” and “down with Israel”. It was truly heart-warming to see Jews standing up for Palestinians. It would be utterly ridiculous if only Jews were able to make a stand for Palestinians and anyone else was accused of being anti-Semitic. ffs

Antisemitism in the Labour Party is a plot by the Israeli Embassy. Hmmmmm….

Pete’s got nothing to worry about. He’s a mate of Magic Grandad. They’ll have a look into it for 4-5 years then conclude that there’s nothing to see here

It’s not like he committed the heinous crime of voting Lib Dem, or owt really serious like that

Yes blaming the Israeli embassy is a bit paranoid but not anti-semitic, just anti Israeli embassy.

Included among them were Orthodox Jews, as in this photo :

They’re the Jewish equivalent of the Westboro Baptist loons, only possibly even more loony.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/who-are-the-neturei-karta-1.444090

They’re the Jewish equivalent of ………

I call racist!

Touché, old chap! Good to see you back, by the way.

He’s been suspended for THAT????

not quite, he also suggested that the Labour party had uncovered Israeli spies within the party, said that it was “obvious”  and “certain” that UK Rabbis were controlled by the Israeli Govt, and then said that although he was sure, he wasn’t bothered to find out about it.

The cognitive dissonance you need to go through to go from you’re certain that British Jews are controlled by the Israeli Embassy (and by association the Govt) and that they have spies everywhere, but you cant be bothered to find out, but that’s your guess, is a man telling himself a story that suits his narrative. And that narrative is a shadowy cabal of Jews controlling public opinion through willing agents (the British Rabbis that clearly can’t be trusted) .

If that’s not anti Semitic, I don’t know what is TBH.

Willsman should’ve been thrown out by now

Edit, oh, and this is his second offence

Do people have any idea how much the Israeli government has to loose if Corbyn were ever to become UK Prime Minister? The UK is a very major arms to supplier to Israel, and Israel needs access to British weapons

How much to lose? I’d say nothing. Last time Labour were in power the “Ethical Foreign Policy” ended the second a few defence industry jobs in Labour seats were at risk. The policy was immediately shelved and a consignment of Aircraft dashboards were sold to Israel.

JC will listen to the Unions and even if he didn’t he’d be under the same pressures as any other government of any other complexion. As Party Leader he simply doesn’t have freedom to act as he’d wish (as we see over Brexit) and as PM he won’t have freedom to have the Foreign Policy he might want.

Mind you, I’d agree some of the Anti Semetic accusations are ludicrous – what Ken Livingstone said wasn’t remotely anti-semetic, for instance. Having said that anti semitisms costs Labour Zero votes. Brexit’s costing them tens of thousands of votes in key seats so this media distraction from Brexit is good for Labour.

not quite, he also suggested that……

piha’s link to the BBC article didn’t claim any of that, just the allegation of Israeli embassy interference, why not – if there’s more to the story than just that?

As I said above in big bold capital letters, I have absolutely no time at all for anyone who suggests a global Jewish conspiracy. It’s not just a disgusting lie but also dangerous lie which was used to justify the Holocaust.

Unfortunately there are some people on the left who are lazy and sloppy in their thinking, and make the assumption that all Jews are Zionist and support Israel. In my experience when it is pointed out to them the dangerous and racist nature of their assumption they always accept the critism.

I have yet to meet anyone on left who actively promotes the “global Jewish conspiracy”. Perhaps they exist but I have yet to meet them, my only experience of such people has been from the far-right.

Ironically, and very coincidentally, I was supposed to be watching this film this evening :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Broken_Cameras

I walked out after a while as I couldn’t stomach watching heavily armed Israeli soldiers shooting at unarmed Palestinian children, and generally brutalising the population, bursting into homes, making arbitrary arrests, etc.

I know the shit that happens in Palestine, I don’t need to watch it on a big screen to make myself feel sick and angry.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1387955/Al-Jazeera-Investigations-film-Shai-Masot-undercover.html

Fairly convincing evidence it seems to me.

He is accused of saying: “This is off the record. It’s almost certain who is behind all this anti-Semitism against Jeremy [Corbyn], almost certainly it’s the Israeli embassy.

Since there is video evidence of Mark Regev saying almost exactly that, it does seem a bit strange. But these stories get cranked up as soon as Labour start making progress in the polls so it’s no big surprise.

Fairly convincing evidence it seems to me.

If you ask me; Do I think that the Israeli Int services try to infiltrate organisations that are critical of the Irsraeli Gvot, then the answer is; Yes absolutely that goes on, you’d be a fool to think otherwise frankly. That’s a criticism you could easily lay at the feet of pretty much every spy organisation from Mossad through the CIA to MI5 to the GRU.

What you can’t then do is accuse every Rabbi in the UK of being in the pay of Mossad because they criticise you. Which is what Willsman has done, for the second time now. Amazing how quickly they can move against Alistair Campbell, but when clear Antisemitism exists, then is suspension (for the second time) and an apology, and then business as usual. Which is why the EHRC are investigating the Labour Party for being Institutionally Anti Semitic.

Recently the German Interior minister warned German men to think twice about wearing a Kippah in public, and Angela Merkal has gone on record in a CNN interview to say that there is not a school or Schul in Germany that doesn’t have a permanent police presence outside it. Drive past any of the orthodox Schuls in Northern Manchester and see for yourself the big lads on permanent  duty outside…

There is genuine fear in the Jewish community in this country that something terrible will happen outside a synagogue or school. That the Labour party then do nothing about idiots like Willsman saying this sort of shit, speaks volumes to them.

And if any of it turned out to be true and the Israeli embassy was stirring up things in the Labour party (which would be understandable as they would hate to have Corbyn in power), what then?

What you can’t then do is accuse every Rabbi in the UK of being in the pay of Mossad because they criticise you. Which is what Willsman has done, for the second time now.

Can you provide the exact quote please? Since the only one I can see mentions a specific letter signed by a group of Rabbis and not “every Rabbi in the UK”.

"Israeli embassy worker (Mark Regev, Israel’s Ambassador to United Kingdom) caught on camera, plotting to use anti-Semitism as a political gain, to oust Jeremy Corbyn and silence activists. Yet again the world turns a blind eye on Israel’s atrocities." pic.twitter.com/Y5haOfcrQI

— Ali Mohammed (@AlleyMb) October 16, 2018

I think this is the video I referred to…

what then?

then you can blame the Israeli Govt.

It is clear that the Israeli Govt has long used the shield of claims of antisemitism to protect itself from criticism. It is a well worn tactic, and one that is easily deflected. I can criticise the govt of Israel all day long without being antisemitic, lots of folk can, and that’s absolutely fine. If Pete Willsman had just said that, then no one (apart from the Israelis govt presumably) would have an issue with it.

It becomes antisemitic when you link that claim to other Jews. His actual words about the Rabbis was that 68* of them were obviously organised by the Israeli embassy when they criticised the Labour Party in the Guardian newspaper.

Why is it “Obvious”? To Pete Wilsman it is obvious because he thinks there is doubt over where their loyalty lays. Or he would like you to think that. It is an old antisemitic trope that you can trust Jews because they are in a global conspiracy, that their loyalties lay elsewhere…It’s as old as the hills.

* sorry dissonance i’ll try to less casual when I’m defending people from victim blaming

It was truly heart-warming to see Jews standing up for Palestinians

I believe the behaviour of the anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews is primarily motivated by fundamentalist religious beliefs, not sympathy with the Palestinian cause. Their doctrine teaches that it is forbidden to have a Jewish state until the Messiah returns, so they view the existence of the Israeli state as a form of heresy.

Morning all.

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/politics/labour-s-peterborough-by-election-candidate-apologises-after-liking-anti-semitic-facebook-post-1-8948348/

Oh, and David Prescott, eh?

Right, back to my breakfast.