Labour Party problems

For my money Kier Starmer is a shoe-in for next Labour PM

I’d vote for him, but that ship has sailed. He can’t get the leadership job now Momentum have taken over:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/keir-starmer-mp-choosing-ideological-purity-power-dereliction-duty

Police investigation of Facebook posts?  It’s just a rerun of the Monty Python sketch about how the police were keeping tabs on the activities of the Piranha brothers by reading the colour supplement.

A cynic might point to the convenient timing of the police suddenly taking an interest in hate crimes. Anyone got any news about Brexit?

I’d vote for him, but that ship has sailed. He can’t get the leadership job now Momentum have taken over:

Indeed. The next leader will be, to all intents and purposes, appointed by Jeremy. Kier Starmer (or anyone else with a cat in hells chance of actually winning a general election) won’t get a look in.

Oops. Someone rattled binners’ cage. Luckily, in fact – it was several hours since he last posted a Life of Brian picture.

So – police investigating 17 Labour hate crimes does not equal a problem with the party at all ?

What is a “Labour hate crime”.

Actually this is hardly a surprise. The BBC were busy linking the Pittsburgh shooting to Corbyn the other night. Why change a winning formula?

Its definitely all a conspiracy by ‘The Establishment’

What is a “Labour hate crime”.

I’m pretty sure you understand the notion of a hate crime.

A Labour hate crime would be one committed by the type of  people who were kept out of Labour for several decades due to their extremism and were welcomed back into positions of power within the party <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>because of</span> their hateful, extremist views once Corbyn took power.

The party must be made to take responsibility for those that it selects to speak for it.

their hateful, extremist views once Corbyn took power.

The party must be made to take responsibility for those that it selects to speak for it.

Ah the tory spokesperson is back…. Better than a cartoon this time. Who are these people that were welcomed back

Drj

Police investigation of Facebook posts? It’s just a rerun of the Monty Python sketch….

With the tragic murder of Jo Cox in June 2016, I would think that any claims of violence towards our MPs should be investigated. Murder of public servants is not really a re-run of a popular TV comedy show I would like to see repeated on the streets of Britain.

Maybe you disagree?

Also to add, this is about 45 incedents, if these were all individuals then that is about 0.035% of the members of the labour party.

Does Labour have a problem or does society have a problem?

Are people reporting cases involving people who are not members of the labour party?

The party must be made to take responsibility for those that it selects to speak for it.

Too right

With the tragic murder of Jo Cox in June 2016, I would think that any claims of violence towards our MPs should be investigated

Indeed. Tory MPs talking about stabbing the prime minister are deplorable. But I don’t see what that had to do with Labour?

Drj

Police investigation of Facebook posts?  It’s just a rerun of the Monty Python sketch…….

With the tragic murder of Jo Cox in June 2016, I would think that any claims of violence towards our MPs should be investigated

Indeed. Tory MPs talking about stabbing the prime minister are deplorable. But I don’t see what that had to do with Labour?

So are you now saying threats against MPs should be investigated?

Of course. And the individuals responsible (and not some other members of an organisation to which they may or may not belong) held to account.

So are you now saying threats against MPs should be investigated?

No we are suggesting there is a shit load of hypocrisy going on here. Until you get more than 45 cases for about 125k members it’s not really looking like correlation is it. More like the current labour party is making legitimate criticism of the state of Israel and there is some backlash from that.

It’s more than clear to anyone that cares to read the BBC article that it isn’t the Labour party that’s is being investigated by the Met. According to the article the “Police have launched a criminal inquiry into allegations of anti-Semitic hate crimes <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>within the Labour Party</span>.”

Unless you know something that isn’t being reported at the moment then the claims stand. Should article not be discussed? If that is what you believe, then I would be interested why you want to gag any discussion on the article?

Unless you know something that isn’t being reported at the moment then the claims stand.

What claims, do we know what other clubs the people were members of< Were they Londoners? Does London have a problem? What about the football team they supported. You know less than 0.04% of the Labour party

If people were found to have broken the law then prosecute them.  No need to link them to any party they may be a member of.  I am sure there are a fair few Labour party members who have broken the speed limit and been caught, does that mean the Labour party have a problem with speeding…

It was Jezza himself that said There is no place for antisemitism in the Labour Party. We must drive it out of our movement for good?

So if the leader comments on it, doesn’t that mean it does indeed link to the labour party? If you haven’t already seen it, go and watch Jezza’s speech from 8th August on the subject and decide for yourself.

and with that we wait for all other political leaders to drive racism and sexism from their parties.

I know it’s all exciting and a nice Labour bashing headline but what is your actual point here?

Rationally some people who were members of the Labour party typed some comments and are now being investigated by the police. By the number of things being reviewed it’s a statistically insignificant number of people involved.

I’m sure following the outcome of the police inquiry appropriate action will be taken.

Labour party has 550,000 members.

You would think that a racist brexiteer would be a shoe in to be the next prime minister. surprised he hasn’t had some wealthy backers swinging his way.

You would think that a racist brexiteer would be a shoe in to be the next prime minister. surprised he hasn’t had some wealthy backers swinging his way.

The fact he may take away some of their ill gotten gains may be a down side for them.

Reports in the press of a small number of MP’s leaving the party.

Splitters….

**** idiots, quit because of the handling of brexit I understand, but bringing up the bullshit antisemitism charges just shows their real motivation is not about doing the right thing for the electorate.

Corbyn needs removing, but for the right reasons, not some blatantly false charges trumped up by the tories and the right wing press, the quiters are just supporting the erg and their cronies by the way they are handling this..

From Peston….

It looks as though the longest rumoured split in a major British political party since the creation of the SDP almost 40 years ago will happen this morning.
The reason I think this is because last light I texted the Labour MPs Chuka Umunna, Chris Leslie, Luciana Berger and Gavin Shuker asking them if they were holding a press conference at 10.30 this morning to announce the split, and none replied.
For what it is worth, I could also have texted Mike Gapes, Angela Smith or Ann Coffey among other critics of the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn.
The mystery is not why they are leaving Labour: they are all alienated from a Labour leadership that they see as being far too slow and lacklustre in cutting out the cancer of antisemitism, and they are furious that Corbyn has been (as they see it) ignoring the majority of Labour members and supporters who would like the party to back an EU referendum.
No. The mystery is why today, rather than in a fortnight or six weeks, when perhaps the UK’s EU destiny will be a bit clearer.
The point is that those running the People’s Vote campaign for a referendum have been desperately trying to persuade Ummuna and Leslie to delay their split – because they think if they were to leave the party now, that would entrench the reluctance of Corbyn and those close to him to back a referendum.
As and when Umunna and co formally leave Labour, the call for a referendum will be closely associated with those who have set themselves up as the enemies of Corbyn and his socialist project. So the referendum-sceptics around Corbyn will tell him that conceding a People’s Vote would be to capitulate to those who want to destroy him.
So the big question for Umunna and the Labour refuseniks today is whether in leaving Labour because they want a referendum they are not in practice undermining the prospect of a referendum.

@ MSP – do you remember the leadership saying that Labour did have problem with antisemitism? And you then go on and call it bullshit….!! You just provided a clear example of the antisemitism issue!!

And you then go on and call it bullshit….!! You just provided a clear example of the antisemitism issue!!

They have a problem in the same way the Tory party do on Islamophobia and general racism. It exists in a small minority. It’s being exploited heavily by the RW press. If they felt that strongly about it what have they done so far about it?

The labour leadership made an error in how they thought they needed to deal with an unrelenting witch hunt. Sure there are racists and bigots in Labour, but there are a **** lot less than in the tories. But the right wing press only dwell on the problems within labour, and ignore the constant racist diatribe from the tories..

eg Corbyn invites a jewish concentration camp survivor to speak, in his speech (the jewish concentration camp survivor to be clear, not Corbyn) he is critical of Israels current policy, apparently that makes Corbyn an antisemite, and the press bang on about it unrelentingly for over 12 months (never mentioning that the person making the comments was a jewish concentration camp survivor and in fact actually and bizarrely labeling him as antisemite as well).

Bojo makes genuinely racist comments about Muslims, and it disappears in a single news cycle.

Twitter now saying there won’t be a split – only a threat of one.

The antisemitism thing is a red herring. The issue is that you have a pro-EU party being led
(if you can call it that?) by a hardline brexiteer.

As we plough on towards a catastrophic no deal scenario, it seems that the leader of the labour party is more than happy to acquiesce wit the ERG to allow it to happen, in the (deluded) hope that the Tory’s will the shoulder the blame for the resulting economic meltdown.

The split has been inevitable fora long time

@ MSP – the antisemitism issue within the Labour party isn’t just about the leader. Look at what Luciana has had to put up with and what the local party has thrown at her. The apparent enablement of the ERG inspired Brexit is another massive problem for the MP’s.

I hope they don’t leave, Labour would be losing some good people.

I look forward to Chukka leading a new movement and saving us from brexit. I assume if he fails and we end up with a tory govt with a small majority at the next election that he will admit that he has enabled the continuance of tory rule and apologise to all the people he claims to represent.

So ‘The Independent Group’.  Hope they’ve put more thought into what they’re saying/doing than they did into coming up with that name.

a tory government with the UK in the EU, would still be preferable to a Labour government on the outside, over the next couple of decades.

This is the real problem, you are putting party politics ahead of the big issue. The country needs saving from brexit, I don’t care whether the charge comes from within labour or breakaway tories, someone needs to oppose this **** madness.

And before you try to label/insult me as a cenrist, I am **** not, I am a socialist through and through. And once this mess is sorted, that’s is where my lifelong vote will continue. But there will be nothing but a wreckage to salvage if brexit goes through, a socialist post brexit government will be powerless to help those most in need with a collapsed economy.

We are already seeing billions wiped from revenue, as brexit champions flee to low tax exile.

I can’t imagine that 7 MPs are really hoping to form an effective political force. The Independent Group name really doesn’t suggest that.

Could this just be a way to get out of harm’s way while they hope the current leadership explodes after Brexit so that they re-enter without being tarnished?

So the big question for Umunna and the Labour refuseniks today is whether in leaving Labour because they want a referendum they are not in practice undermining the prospect of a referendum.

Umunna in “not thinking things through” shocker!!

They look like a new bank…

Sounds like a lot of right-wing frustration bubbling out to me.

Also not much talk of of Brexit in the conference?

I look forward to Chukka leading a new movement and saving us from brexit. I assume if he fails and we end up with a tory govt with a small majority at the next election that he will admit that he has enabled the continuance of tory rule and apologise to all the people he claims to represent.

Yepo

Some of the rubbish coming out now – they’ve changed the face of the Labour party apparently – yeah back to where it should be.

a tory government with the UK in the EU, would still be preferable to a Labour government on the outside, over the next couple of decades.

Don’t agree.

We need to change the ideology. Things haven’t been good under the Tories whilst in the EU – so why would it be good for the next decade?

It’s a downward trajectory.

So how do you predict a socialist government will improve things with a collapsed economy?

We have been on a down slope under the tories within the EU, but brexit is taking us over the cliff edge with no hope.

Even if there is a slim hope, the US will do anything to undermine socialism, and we will have rejected our only support. The US will win, and we will be well and truly ****.

So how do you predict a socialist government will improve things with a collapsed economy?

What is your measure of a collapsed economy? And when?

Don’t forget the economy already went to junk in 2008.