Labour Party problems

Why wouldn’t you want Labour in at a difficult time. They are more pro Brexit, have a better plan and a more positive vision of what Brexit means. And a conviction leader.

Why wouldn’t it be great? Jezza the Brexit deliverer

 ironically over the EU, an issue where he is completely in tune with his constituents

Only with 51% of them.

Voting to prop up May’s government, just to push his eurosceptic obsession was a foolish thing do

Called conviction?

Voting to prop up May’s government, just to push his eurosceptic obsession was a foolish thing do

Not if, like me, you favour martinhutch’s view that politicians nearing the end of their career sometimes like to be seen to resign on a point of principle rather than fade away in silence.

This way he’s seen to be supporting his long held eurosceptic conviction which 51pc of his constituents and the the Labour leadership would agree with, and his actual resignation over anti-semitism is on another point of principle.

So whether you think he’s genuine on both points or just cynically picking issues to resign over at the end of his political career he’s played an absolute blinder. I can’t see any sense in which anything he’s done over these issues was foolish?

As a point of interest, according to wikipedia Field was one of the Labour MPs who originally nominated Corbyn.

As a point of interest, according to wikipedia Field was one of the Labour MPs who originally nominated Corbyn.

yep the blairites thought they could crush traditional labour by selecting a token left winger for the leadership election.

yep the blairites thought they could crush traditional labour by selecting a token left winger for the leadership election.

Cite, please.

AFAIK no Blairites were involved in the selection of Corbyn. According to McDonnell (who was there) the selection was made in a meeting with him, Corbyn, Abbott and others from their wing of the party. McDonnell didn’t want to do it ‘cos he’d already had a couple of goes (and had suffered a fairly recent heart attack), Abbot also felt she’d done her fair share. There was just a general feeling it was Corbyn’s turn to be the token left winger candidate and he reluctantly accepted. Hard to imagine there was a plan to crush Corbyn’s wing of Labour at all, given it had already been crushed. Corbyn/Skinner/Abbot/McDonnell are no spring chickens, it was by no means certain any of them would stand and I suspect none of them were anticipating remaining in Parliament for 2 whole terms which takes them all to around 80yo. If they wanted to crush Corbyn’s wing of Labour all they had to do was keep them away from leadership elections for a few years.

Far from wanting to crush it, I think Labour were happy to give Corbyn’s wing of the party a platform in total confidence that it had already been crushed. Doh!

Fields just miscalculated massively

ask a scouser what their political priorities are… dumping the EU or dumping a Tory government ……… & this is how the local press have been portraying his siding with the likes of rees-mogg

his vote on the brexit CU amendment wouldnt have stopped brexit, but it couldve brought down the government

Birkenheads also had a bigger than average swing back to remain https://www.bestforbritain.org/map

Why wouldn’t you want Labour in at a difficult time. They are more pro Brexit, have a better plan and a more positive vision of what Brexit means. And a conviction leader.

Why wouldn’t it be great? Jezza the Brexit deliverer

@thm

Yeah, but I’m not listening to ‘experts’.

Corbyn terrifies the gammons and the spivs who want to profit personally from a hard brexit, so that’s good enough for me. I think he terrifies you too. Even better.

Yadda, yadda, yadda, I hear the reply coming, but I ain’t listening.

Irritating isn’t it?

Actually I would probably more instinctively want to vote Lib-Dem, but they are still too tainted by the toxicity of coalition for a large enough number of people to vote for them. So, Jezza it is. Or Mr Claypole, or whoever. Just not your lot.

Is it the early 80’s again? Certainly seems like it.

I just look on in despair as the Labour party decides that it’s not going to waste its time with challenging the government or anything like that. Why bother when there’s so much fun to be had in Peoples Front of Judea/Judean Peoples Front levels of internal feuding instead.

What a pile of naval-gazing, self-indulgent horse-shit.

To win a general election, they need to win over swing voters in marginal constituencies.

How do you think this he said/she said bollocks is playing out with them?

Are they looking like a government in waiting? Or just strikingly similar to the ineffectual, shambolic rabble that so effectively wrote themselves out of the political picture in the 80’s? And against this lot, too. Who are a shambolic rabble themselves, but somewhat unbelievably, a more electable one.

Go Jezza!

I just look on in despair as the Labour party decides that it’s not going to waste its time with challenging the government or anything like that.

You seem to be very exercised about it for someone who isn’t even a member of the Labour party.

Politicians dont terrify they merely disappoint

You seem to be very exercised about it for someone who isn’t even a member of the Labour party.

Yeah, it isn’t like a strong opposition is needed for our system of government to work properly is it.

Yeah, it isn’t like a strong opposition is needed for our system of government to work properly is it.

If you say so.

Oh yeah, I forgot…. all that matters is biggest membership of any political party in Europe. That’s really really important

Maybe appealing to voters who aren’t in that group, so as to form the next government ? Not so much.

As long as everyone in the common room feels virtuous….

He got more votes than Blair ever did and is pro-Brexit. Welcome to the party with full momentum

I voted for my constituency Labour candidate last time round. I don’t remember seeing Corbyn’s name on the ballot paper – that would just have been those in his Islington constituency. So, no, he didn’t get more votes than Blair.

Oh yeah, I forgot…. all that matters is biggest membership of any political party in Europe. That’s really really important

What’s really important is to carry on whinging about the leadership having done absolutely nothing to change it.

It gets worse and worse for Jeremy Corbyn and Labour. There’s a rumour that photos have emerged of a courgette grown on his allotment which is a similar shape to a rocket propeller used by al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

This comes on top of revelations that he has a beard, much like Palestinian terrorists, and his constituency is Islington, which starts with IS, or Islamic State. As a vegetarian he doesn’t eat pork, his friend John McDonnell’s initials are JM – that stands for Jihadist Muslim – and he travels on underground trains, that are under the ground, just like the basements in which Isis make their little films.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-islam-jewish-antisemitism-israel-labour-party-margaret-thatcher-a8494796.html

So let me get this right ransos …. democracy now demands that the onus is on the voter to join political parties to effect a change of policy?

Otherwise you’ve no right to comment?

Are the BBC going to start asking for membership cards before anyone gets to talk to the panel on QT?

Maybe you could do a sort of Michael Crick test too where you have to list how many anti-Fatcha rallies you went on in the 80’s, and how many 38 Degrees internet petitions you’ve added your name to in the last 3 day’s

To be fair binners you bleated and moaned about Corbyn from the start, right up until the election. That went pretty much nothing like you’d insisted it would so you went quiet for a while. Now we’re back to full force binners and I’m sure we’re quite close to a sixth form reference.

I’m no huge fan of Corbyn or his style but listening to you and your doom + gloom is almost as tedious and predictable as Jamba/Dickens claims of obliteration of the Labour party before the election.

What’s going to be interesting now is to see how Aaron Banks and the far right are using the Momentum model of entryism to colonise the Tory party in the same manner. As if, in its present state, it wasn’t right wing enough.

Theres a very real possibility that the next general election will be between Corbyn and whoever the far right anoints once they’ve deposed Theresa, probably Boris Johnson or Rees Mogg

An interesting article by Owen Jones

What a prospect.

So binners what you are saying is that you want everyone in the PLP to get behind Corbyn?

Otherwise you’ve no right to comment?

Comment all you like, but if you cared as much as you claim to, you’d be doing something about it. I suppose that your empty rhetoric is appropriate for the middle class Tory-lite wing of the party.

Ah, yes…. anyone who criticises Saint Jeremy is a Tory.

Of course.

Thats just the attitude that’s going to get everyone onside and propel the messiah into number ten

democracy now demands that the onus is on the voter to join political parties to effect a change of policy?

If you are complaining about a particular party then yes I would suggest it is. If you think party x should represent your views but no longer does then either find a new party or join it and get it back on the “right” path.

Our current structure does place emphasis on party before individual MPs so if you want some influence as opposed to just choosing the least worse option then joining a party is the way ahead.

Its not like Labour have been hijacked by a small minority unrepresentative of their core membership like happened under Blair.  So if you dont like momentum and Corbyn then join with all those other silent majority types and take the party back.

Did you used to be a member binners?

Thats just the attitude that’s going to get everyone onside and propel the messiah into number ten

…full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

What does that even mean?

I’m merely trying to point out that maybe heaping abuse on people who don’t agree with you is maybe not the best way to get them onside.

Labour needs to win over swing voters who’s views are inherently centrist so decrying all none-believers as ****ing Tories is an interesting way of going about it.

There must be stacks of voters out there who look despairingly at the rightward trajectory of the Tory party but don’t see the Labour Party, under this leadership, as an alternative they can vote for.

Thats a major problem for Labour.

Derek Hatton is presently on Chanel 4 news, bigging up Jezza. Always a good look. That’s bound to hoover up the votes of those swing voters in key marginals

I’m merely trying to point out that maybe heaping abuse on people who don’t agree with you is maybe not the best way to get them onside.

Stop doing it then

maybe heaping abuse on people who don’t agree with you is maybe not the best way to get them onside.

Have you thought about doing the same yourself? You seem to have a habit of heaping abuse of those who have the cheek to be overly left wing in a left wing party.

Labour needs to win over swing voters who’s views are inherently centrist

I am not so sure it is that clear cut since “centrists” is a pretty meaningless term. Plus you also need to explain how to solve the problem that was displayed during the Blair years. Aiming at those swing voters resulted in the centre moving rightwards to the extent mildly left wing policies (by past standards and by European standards) are now claimed to be far left and also that a bunch of traditional voters felt abandoned and looking for something/anything which claimed to represent them.

Chasing the swing voters works for a while but ultimately leaves the traditional safe seats knackered when people start wondering why bother voting for a party which is no longer interested in them. Thats the way we end up with people voting for brexit to rebel against the elites who are ignoring them in favour of some tiny minority of the population.

Frankly the centrists need to learn that they really are a minority (speaking as someone who roughly drops into that category) and that the left and right wing parties shouldnt bend to our minority view simply because we are easily brought.

Or if you’re a centrist, just vote for the Libs!

Or if you’re a centrist, just vote for the Libs!

Problem is that they’re still tainted by the coalition where they rubber stamped all the austerity measures without so much as a blush. Every association with the Tories proves toxic in the end.

I reckon the Libdems could still go some way in a GE by just campaigning along the lines of “we are not the Tories and we are not Labour and if you vote for us we will stop Brexit”. In these days of no nuance whatsoever, such blatant soundbitey stuff will win a lot of the, ahem, more easily swayed voters.

Whatever it takes to get the nonsense stopped.

Or if you’re a centrist, just vote for the Libs!

True but then will quickly realise the chances of getting any influence is sweet FA nowadays. Would be better under a PR system but since Clegg the numpty spent all his political capital on the crap AV referendum no chance of that.

I think it is why the centrists/moderates have such a frothing hatred of Corbyn even when compared to hard right types. They no longer have the Labour party ignoring the majority of their voters to dance to their whim instead.

The average voter wouldn’t really see much difference between centrist and a Corbyn labour party (mainly because a Corbyn labour party does not include setting up a Marxist state.  What are the major things that would be different and actually change to the point that anyone noticed?

– Both would favour public services

– Both would not have done the austerity thing

– Both would care more about less privileged

Political parties only tend to make minor changes over the years despite what they say they are doing and those minor changes are not really noticed by the average voter as they are not looking that closely so it all boils down to how the voter feels and who they feel will do a better job for them

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/david-blunkett-calls-for-corbyn-project-rethink

And now we see the real motivation behind Field’s resignation, and I strongly suspect the entire anti-semitism ‘story’. Honestly, when will they accept that they lost? And not by the left’s bullying dirty tricks, but through their own incompetence and arrogance.

I nearly spat my coffee out when I read the following.

“What matters for the health of our democracy and the continuity of the existence of the Labour party, of which I have been a member for 55 years, are the actions taken and the quality of leadership from Jeremy Corbyn and his colleagues over the next seven days.”

So the party’s future existence depends on what Corbyn does over the next 7 days? Unless of course this is a threat, and if that’s the case, who is it whose doing the bullying?

The plot thickens

Funny how other news outlets like the Independent and the BBC are reporting John McDonnell’s olive branch to anti-Corbyn MPs yet there’s absolutely no mention of it in the Guardian, presumably because they’d already written this hatchet job well in advance and McDonnell’s intervention didn’t fit the narrative? How many leadership elections is it going to take for them to get the message?

And really, Margaret Hodge has lost it. Hatred of Jews? Seriously?

And really, Margaret Hodge has lost it. Hatred of Jews? Seriously?

Can’t help thinking that this is so over the top that it discredits the whole smear campaign. But then again Marr had the ghastly racist Sacks on without calling him out once for his shameful history, so we can’t be sure.

I see Corbyn/Momentum continues to try to purge  any non-believers from its ranks through deselection.

He really is such a lovely chap isn’t he?

Corbynites use ‘Blair’ like a swear word, but he never tried to deselect Tony Benn or Dennis Skinner.

I see Corbyn/Momentum continues to try to purge  any non-believers from its ranks through deselection.

Why are you confusing the two? As for deselection. Heaven forbid that the local party members actually have a choice in who they will be campaigning for.

Blair did make a habit of parachuting in candidates regardless of what the locals thought. Which is probably why some are now ranting and raving about purges and other rubbish.

If he was trying to centralise power you might have a point but as it is surely the hordes of Binners will save their local party from the evil momentum members and put them back on the correct track.

I see Corbyn/Momentum continues to try to purge  any non-believers from its ranks through deselection.

Or democratising the party by giving power to those at the bottom to choose their representatives and influence policy? I fail to see how anyone can think that is a bad thing. And as for purging those who don’t agree with him, he’s doing a remarkably bad job of purging the likes of Margaret Hodge who seems to think he’s one step away from being the next Hitler.