Is it racist…

I have a customer in Doncaster. his company name is Polskisat.

Polski means Polish in the language, but it’s an adjective so refers to objects. Polak would refer to a person – but its gendered and I’m not going that detailed 🙂 And correct me if I’m wrong but PolskiSat is a service provider in Poland?

Personally (and call me oversensitive) I got called a Pom, in Poland, by someone I’d never met before in public, before I’d even spoken to them. Made me think they were a bit rude really.

You have takewaways closed on a lunch time?

Yep, seems to be a 17:00 unwritten rule before the traditional takeaways (Chinese, Curry House, Pizza, Kebab etc) begin selling their wares. Sandwiches shops are open though. We have a local one called brown or white, so racist!

I tell you what I think is weird about racism in the UK. I can honestly say that I never hear people being racist about the usual suspects, apart from the occasional confused pensioner referring to black people as ‘boons’ or something. But fair enough, I’m an average liberal white guy so probably don’t see much outside my bubble.

But talk about Irish Travellers and my god… It’s all there; PROPER racism. Some of the stuff you read on forums/Comment sections regarding this lot wouldn’t sound out of place in Nazi Germany or slave-era USA. But it kind of goes unnoticed. What’s that all about?

And another thing. Years ago I worked in a busy restaurant kitchen with every nationality under the sun. Everyone was incredibly racist, shouting insults back and forth, but then all sit and drink together at the end of a shift. Whether we’re all inherently racist or it was just a convenient method of offending one’s colleague I don’t know .

I’ll probably get lynched for this, but have you had many dealings with the traveller community? They don’t exactly have great public relations. You think we are bad with the travellers, try being born ginger and male in the UK wink:

Interesting. Would never consider using Chinky or **** due to the negative racist connotations in England.

I do however use Jap when referring to my Japanese made Honda motorbike. They are Jap bikes, which is in my mind at least, positive in terms of engineering and quality.

My American wife reacted much as I would if someone casually used the term ****. Apparently Jap has the same negative racist connotations for the Yanks.

So I get where you’re coming from, but I think if Nigel Farage considers it ok to “go for a chinky”, then it’s probably a bit racist and you shouldn’t use it.

You’ve met my neighbour fourbanger haven’t you…. she is rather hot

My American wife reacted much as I would if someone casually used the term ****. Apparently Jap has the same negative racist connotations for the Yanks.

You don’t say.

Polak would refer to a person

See, I always thought that was pejorative. For years, the only place I’d ever come across it was on American TV / movies. “Did you hear the one about the Polak who…” in pretty much the same context as “Irishman” in hilarious jokes from the 70s over here (there’s a character in Flashdance that does bad standup all around these). It was years before I even discovered what a Polak was.

Is it not, then?

I know, I’ll ask an actual Polish person (on the grounds that a sample size of “one” is totally representative of an entire nation). Hold the line please, caller.

If 8) you knowingly use a word in a non-racist context that others use to cause offence them you are (even in a little way, even not intending to) helping to perpetuate the use of something racist.

Point being, you can choose to easily use another word that is not going to risk annoying someone and it’s not hard to do

Ok analogy time “why are you carrying a gun?” “I’m going hunting” “but you’re walking down the high street with a gun n your hand, that’s what lunatics do” “but I’m not a lunatic” “then prove that you aren’t by having it in a case until you are standing in a field”
same with language, prove that you aren’t racist (which we know you aren’t) by not even going anywhere near using a word that racists use, don’t put yourself in a position where the is even the hint of doubt 8)

J’know what – I thought the 17 pages thing was a bit of a gamble but I’m thinking they’re gonna get the win.

Macka B will tell you what you need to know.

8)

I know, I’ll ask an actual Polish person (on the grounds that a sample size of “one” is totally representative of an entire nation). Hold the line please, caller.

My Polish friend says it’s absolutely fine as far as she’s concerned, it simply means “a Polish person” with no negative connotations. Every day’s a school day.

teasel – Member

J’know what – I thought the 17 pages thing was a bit of a gamble but I’m thinking they’re gonna get the win.

I’ve got about 2-3 pages of debate as to whether or not Macka B does tell you what you need to know, if it helps.

Whilst we’re on the subject, does anyone know a really offensive term that could be applied to Hungarians.

I don’t normally indulge in such fripperies but I was at a loss for suitable words when 50 Hungarian renderers decided to blockade our office this morning.

Calling them Budapests just wasn’t cutting the mustard.

Or just continue to use it and make this racist term last and last.

A counter-argument could be that by continuing to use an inherently non-racist term with affection, rather than hate, we might reclaim it.

After all it seems a bit one-sided if any colloquial adjective can be placed forever out-of-bounds simply by some bigots using it.

I didn’t even know they had reindeer in Hungary

I haven’t read beyond the first page but my view is that what constitutes racist language is all down to intent.

When someone says “I fancy a chinky tonight” they are almost certainly not doing it to insult Chinese people but are simply announcing that they fancy partaking in the culinary delights of oriental cuisine, it is not racist imo.

If however they are referring to a person as a “chinky” then there is a high probability that they intend to insult, in which case it is racist imo.

Likewise with **** shop. For me **** shop means the local convenience shop which is owned by the delightful and extremely polite Mr and Mrs Patel (who are almost certainly not Pakistani), which has a wider range of products than a Waitrose supermarket, and which remains open until ridiculously late.

If however someone is referred to as a **** the intention is almost certainly to insult them and it is indisputably racist.

It ain’t rocket science imo, it’s all down to intent seen through perspective of common-sense, concepts which both bigoted/racist right-wingers and middle-class politically correct lefties spectacularly fail to understand.

Why is it that people who quote “common sense” almost always fail the logic test.

Do you refer to German owned shops as “Das Hun Shop”, do you refer to Irish shops as “Paddy Shops”, or Ginger owned shops as “Ginger Shops”, do Pakistanis/Black people refer to white owned shops as “Cracker Shops”?

No they don’t do they! The reason why white people shorten and use ethnic identifiers in these types of shorthand, is that it purposely identifies those who are non-white as outsiders. Whether you do it intentionally or not, someone at some point did and it caught on – and perhaps – just perhaps, some ethnic minorities feel uncomfortable about being labelled as outsiders by the society they live in?

It isn’t rocket science is it, bro?

Ginger owned shops as “Ginger Shops”?

We call ours Pink Floyd; no soul. 😀

It isn’t rocket science is it, bro?

Sexist.

jambourgie – Member

But talk about Irish Travellers and my god… It’s all there; PROPER racism. Some of the stuff you read on forums/Comment sections regarding this lot wouldn’t sound out of place in Nazi Germany or slave-era USA. But it kind of goes unnoticed. What’s that all about?

Displacement of hate, it’s a pretty common thing. People who’re naturally disposed to hate others, or who need to, for whatever messed up reason aren’t always all that fussed about who they hate, so they effortlessly shift from one target to the next as they become socially unacceptable. Not allowed to hate blacks? Fine, hate polish people. Oh not polish people? Fine, hate travellers. Jews off the menu? Fine, hate muslims. Can’t hate all women? Hate “feminazis”. The arseholes that want to stop trans people going to the bathroom, are the exact same arseholes that would have blamed pakistanis for taking their jobs.

At some point it’ll become unacceptable to hate travellers, and they’ll all just move onto the next thing, whatever that might be. ****ing economists hopefully, I hate those bastards. Or middle class politically correct lefties.

It ain’t rocket science imo, it’s all down to intent seen through perspective of common-sense, concepts which both bigoted/racist right-wingers and middle-class politically correct lefties spectacularly fail to understand.

PARKLIFE

The reason why white people shorten and use ethnic identifiers in these types of shorthand,

Just white people?

just perhaps, some ethnic minorities feel uncomfortable about being labelled as outsiders by the society they live in?

So how does that thought apply to cuisine Tom?

If you run a restaurant selling “ethnic” cuisine (or at least westernised approximations of it) then presumably you actively want customers to know what you sell?

But if calling a restaurant “Chinese” labels the proprietors as “outsiders” then should we call them “chip shops” instead? 😆

And that’s the thing: for me, and I suspect some others, this sentiment quickly slips from a perfectly well-intentioned and agreeable “casual racism is bad” to an utterly infuriating “adjectives are bad”.

But if calling a restaurant “Chinese” labels the proprietors as “outsiders” then should we call them “chip shops” instead

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Sexist.

Again, Macka B taught me how to treat women:

(and vegetables)

[Quote=mod]Yes you do, you’re just looking to have an argument about it.[/quote]

No, I really don’t. I cannot see why the word **** is seen as more acceptable than the word tw@. I would be less offended if some called me that than if they called me names based on my race.

I would be more upset at my kids for saying **** than I would for saying tw@. If it is about protecting the family forum, then let’s get rid of the family unfriendly words.

Unless you can explain, why the word **** is more acceptable than the word tw@, then maybe you should ban or allow them both

But if calling a restaurant “Chinese” labels the proprietors as “outsiders” then should we call them “chip shops” instead?

And that’s the thing: for me, and I suspect some others, this sentiment quickly slips from a perfectly well-intentioned and agreeable “casual racism is bad” to an utterly infuriating “adjectives are bad”.

The point being we don’t shorten French restaurants to “I’m going for a frog”, it displays a wilful lack of courtesy to use the full name and pretty much erects a big **** off glowing neon sign over your head that says “I’m a lazy **** that can’t be arsed to form a proper sentence”. Identifying corner shops by the owners heritage is worse.

Just white people?

If non-whites do, does that make it acceptable? Not really.

But generally, in the west – they seem less likely to as perhaps they are more sensitive to these issues.

If non-whites do, does that make it acceptable? Not really.

That wasn’t my point. My point is it’s not just those pesky whites that use racist terms.

The point being we don’t shorten French restaurants to “I’m going for a frog”,

No that’s a different point. You said earlier that the point was that people felt “uncomfortable about being labelled as outsiders” which any adjective has the power to do.

it displays a wilful lack of courtesy to use the full name.

Maybe this is a cultural thing, but I generally regard nicknames as a sign of affection, not disrespect. My wife looks concerned if I call her by her proper name, same goes for close mates.

So again there is context and intent there.

That wasn’t my point. My point is it’s not just those pesky whites that use racist terms.

Oh I’m sorry, I never knew that they used these terms in Britain to describe shops. What terms do they use?

Oh and they aren’t racist terms, they’re “prejudiced” terms if non-whites use them in western society.

😈

No that’s a different point. You said earlier that the point was that people felt “uncomfortable about being labelled as outsiders” which any adjective has the power to do.

People only tend to do so, if they feel that heritage is used in a way that implies disrespect. Indians for example, often want to celebrate their heritage – but likely in a way that doesn’t alienate them from the rest of society.

Got bored reading after page 2, but the most offensive thing on this thread is the same old names pretesting their entitlement to be old fashioned racists. Get with the 90’s man

Oh I’m sorry, I never knew that they used these terms in Britain to describe shops. What terms do they use?

The same as some other Brits use as the skin colour isn’t what makes you racist.

But generally, in the west – they seem less likely to as perhaps they are more sensitive to these issues.

Or maybe because it doesn’t make sense to identify someone or something as part of a majority.
I’m sure if I went to Kingston and opened a fried chicken shop I would be identified by my lighter than typical skin, rather than my long as typical hair.
It’s simply logical, and I’m sure wouldn’t bear any malice, especially as we all know how much they love chicken!

The same as some other Brits use as the skin colour isn’t what makes you racist.

Do you really want to argue this?

I mean, I can, if you really don’t know where I’m going to take this to piss off as many of you as I can?

Or maybe because it doesn’t make sense to identify someone or something as part of a majority.
I’m sure if I went to Kingston and opened a fried chicken shop I would be identified by my lighter than typical skin, rather than my long as typical hair.

I’m sure we’d have heard of it if they did, plenty of polish shops in these kinds of areas.

It’s simply logical, and I’m sure wouldn’t bear any malice, especially as we all know how much they love chicken!

…and melons and spears, eh?

This is so **** easy.

I know, I’ll ask an actual Polish person (on the grounds that a sample size of “one” is totally representative of an entire nation). Hold the line please, caller.

Yep, my ex wife was in the room so we have a sample size of two. I can’t spell Polaciem correctly which I think is the female version.

**** shop is the one for me that rings wrong. But an astute person before said that it might have more to do with my own prejudices. I think that whoever owns a shop is irrelevant. But maybe I see it as a negative because growing up that would have been my only contact with people from pakistan, and I’ve intrinsically linked it with limited opportunities? **** knows.

I’m sure we’d have heard of it if they did, plenty of polish shops in these kinds of areas.

Polski Sklep is actually accurate though.

That’s actually going the opposite way though isn’t it Rich, I mean you’re using their language to describe where you are going – instead of a British derived term of *cough*….”endearment”….*cough*.

Tom_W1987 – Member

This is so **** easy.

Is it? I’m not so sure.
Let’s see what the oracle says…

It does sound like there’s quite a demand.