Is it racist…

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  • Is it racist…
  • Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    I detest the Americanisation of our language. It’s programme not program. Program is IT

    It’s a computer “program” when referring to software precisely because it was originally coined in the US (see also floppy disk and hard disk versus compact disc; the first two are American inventions, the second a joint venture between the non-American companies Philips and Sony).

    Premier Icon AlexSimon
    Subscriber

    There was a big debate on facebook about people from Bollington being referred to (and referring to themselves) as Bollywogs.
    Fun to watch.

    I definitely wouldn’t be the person to stand in a Chinese takeaway on the phone saying “Do you want anything from the Chinky?”.

    I do find it interesting how it is often the same people on each side of these arguments. Makes me wonder what the main differences in our experiences are that lead us to our positions.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    CharlieMungus – Member
    As i say it has potential to cause offensive, even if not intended.
    Even if it is used without racist intent, it’s not a very nice word and carries a legacy of racist intent.

    Until the word is rehabilitated, then best not to use it in such contexts.agreed.

    teasel
    Member

    Racism for me requires intent.

    I disagree. That implies there’s no such thing as casual racism. [/quote]

    Hence my post on the first page of this thread. In my twenties I used to think along similar lines but have come to realise it will still cause offence regardless of my intent. It takes very little effort to adjust or understand why you’re doing so and sometimes it takes someone to inform you of your error. I was lucky enough not to have some preachy, condescending type help me understand where I was going wrong.

    tpbiker
    Member

    I do enjoy threads where a bunch of middle-aged white guys (yeah, I’m making that assumption) decide what is and isn’t racist.

    Fair enough, but as the op I can confirm that the person in the pub who actually brought the subject up was chinese. And he had no issues with it at all. Appears to me that those who take issue with it aren’t from the areas that grew up with the term.

    as pointed out by others, i think the word used to describe an individual is not appropriate in the least…

    Brown
    Member

    Makes me wonder what the main differences in our experiences are that lead us to our positions.

    Having an Indian best mate since the age of 11 and a Chinese ex girlfriend who’ve both been negatively affected by racism means that you can probably guess my position on the subject.

    Sorry if Teasel finds that condescending or preachy.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Brown – Member
    Racism for me requires intent.

    I disagree. That implies there’s no such thing as casual racism.
    If something’s said ‘without intent’ but still upsets people of a particular race based on their race, that’s racist, regardless of intent.

    I can see there being a need to differentiate between overt racism and societal racism that goes back generations, as lets face it does exist(i’m guilty of it myself, born late 70s, growing up in the 80s, hard to avoid it, society moves on though and we learn).

    I don’t think it’s really helpful to call the later racists though, rather than just say, come on, do you realise you sound like a fossil or some such, and just make it known, it’s really socially unacceptable to refer to such and such as such and such… (in saying that, I think we’re well down that path these days, so anyone that religiously sticks to stereotypical terms can probably be called a racist.)

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Appears to me that those who take issue with it aren’t from the areas that grew up with the term.

    I grew up with the term but wouldn’t use it now. I’m 58 and not past learning. For folk in their 80s, maybe there’s more of an excuse.

    Appears to me that those who take issue with it aren’t from the areas that grew up with the term.

    ,

    I think for the 40somethings in here, we all grew up with the term, just some stopped using it

    teasel
    Member

    Sorry if Teasel finds that condescending or preachy.

    Heh

    I didn’t have this thread in mind when I wrote that. But if the cap fits…

    ๐Ÿ™‚

    Brown
    Member

    I don’t think it’s really helpful to call the later racists though, rather than just say, come on, do you realise you sound like a fossil or some such, and just make it known, it’s really socially unacceptable to refer to such and such as such and such…

    Fair point.

    I didn’t have this thread in mind when I wrote that. But if the cap fits…

    ๐Ÿ™‚

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    I’d a wee edit at the end aswell.

    chewkw
    Member

    The Southern Yeti – Member
    Don’t post a picture of your Chinese meal with the chopsticks sticking up from the middle of it, whatever you do.

    Linky

    Doesn’t matter to be honest so just post whatever you like and be yourself good or bad.

    I certainly don’t care …

    The reason not to have chopsticks sticking up is simple.

    1. It symbolises dedicating the meal to the death.

    2. Traditionally, we use even number incense to stick on the food to dedicate to the death.

    3. Sometimes we just stick two chopsticks on the food …

    4. This applies to all countries that use chopsticks.

    Therefore, if you stick two chopsticks on your food you are either the death (dedicating to yourself) or dedicating the food to your own ancestors/love ones.

    That is the reason why we don’t do that in our house nor others house and it is very rude to others if you do that in their house because you are dedicating to their death.

    ๐Ÿ˜†

    Check the number of incense …

    Agreed, in such cases in here, i don’t brand the individual as racist or homophobic (usually), only what they say

    joolsburger
    Member

    Ozzies, Yanks, Bubbles, whens a your Dolmio day. It’s all getting a bit out of hand. Lots of innocuous statements can be offensive if you want them to be.

    Chinky does cross a line same as Paki does and that’s pretty clear I’d say. Some of the comments here have a real whiff of the thought police about them. It’s certainly someones right to be offended but equally its my right to be offensive if I so choose. My kids often ask me where the offense line is, I always say that something someone “is” is totally off limits but an idea someone “believes” feel free to fill your boots.
    Modern political correctness is eroding that right and its a worry.

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    ….to refer to a chinese takeaway as a ‘chinky’?

    How is this even a question? Of course it’s racist.

    outofbreath
    Member

    A definitive list of racist terms and contexts would be very useful.

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    Modern political correctness is eroding that right and its a worry.

    agreed.
    too many folk go out of their way to be offended, and also want to be offended on other people’s behalf.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Too many folk are also conciously racist and proud of it.

    I know which group is worse…

    nickfrog
    Member

    Anti-political correctness has become so politically correct.

    kerley
    Member

    A definitive list of racist terms and contexts would be very useful

    Not to me, I feel no need for one. Anyone struggling to work out if something is racist probably needs more than a list of terms…

    Brown
    Member

    Some of the comments here have a real whiff of the thought police about them. It’s certainly someones right to be offended but equally its my right to be offensive if I so choose … Modern political correctness is eroding that right and its a worry.

    I was wondering when this would come up. It’s completely true and at the same time, in the context of this thread, it’s utter bollocks. Using the phrase ‘chinky’ has nothing to do with free speech. If you could avoid using a term that can and does affect people, why would you not do so? It doesn’t matter if it’s PC-gone-mad or not, it’s just being nice.

    too many folk go out of their way to be offended, and also want to be offended on other people’s behalf.

    .
    And some folk have been more than offended and some of their friends have witnessed this and so are happy to get offended on their behalf.

    Premier Icon andybrad
    Subscriber

    Had the same thing, originally in Barnsley going for a chinky was a normal phrase. I suggested this at one of the SV650 rideouts (northwind will know) and got a right old bollocking. I honestly never ever considered it as racist and didnt even think it would offend. But it did so i stopped using it.

    I was called all sorts under the sun, racist being one of them. I personally dont think its racist as that means that there is intent imo and not ignorance. Still if someone doesn’t like something why keep using it?

    I dont use the phrase now.

    outofbreath
    Member

    “Not to me, I feel no need for one.”

    So how do *you* find out which terms are racist and which aren’t? You just go on gut feel?

    Brown
    Member

    I was called all sorts under the sun, racist being one of them. I personally dont think its racist as that means that there is intent imo and not ignorance.

    IMO the phrase is racist but you aren’t, as evidenced by the fact you stopped using it as soon as you realise it could upset people. Nice one.

    kerley
    Member

    So how do *you* find out which terms are racist and which aren’t?

    Why would I need to find anything out ?

    It really isn’t a grey area to me, but if it is to you then you need to think about why.

    So how do *you* find out which terms are racist and which aren’t?

    wikipedia?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    So how do *you* find out which terms are racist and which aren’t?

    If you find yourself asking the question, normally a decent indicator it’s probably time to move on from the term.

    outofbreath
    Member

    “Why would I need to find anything out ?”

    Are you some kind of expert on racism?

    Seriously, Chinky isnt a term in use where I live, I was aware of it as a term for food but I only recall hearing it once on a visit up North.

    How the hell am I supposed to know that some people think it’s racist? According to this thread even people who live in areas where it is used, don’t know.

    So yeah, a definitive list of terms that various cultures nationalities find offensive would prevent these ‘guess if a word is racist’ issues.

    I know someone who didn’t know what dogging meant for years – not everyone is linguistically up to date.

    outofbreath
    Member

    “If you find yourself asking the question, normally a decent indicator it’s probably time to move on from the term.”

    I just asked myself that question about Up North… Is that racist?

    kerley
    Member

    Are you some kind of expert on racism?

    Nope, just not racist so comes easy I suppose.

    I just asked myself that question about Up North… Is that racist?

    no, but maybe offensive, in Nicaragua

    outofbreath
    Member

    “Nope, just not racist so comes easy I suppose.”

    You know every racist slang word in use in the uk?

    I bet you don’t.

    tpbiker
    Member

    IMO the phrase is racist but you aren’t, as evidenced by the fact you stopped using it as soon as you realise it could upset people. Nice one.

    But thats just the point, i’ve never ever met anyone who was offended by calling a chinese takeaway a ‘chinky’, never in 40 years. And that includes amongst several chinese mates, one who owns a takeout. If anything its a term of endearment towards their great food.

    Lots of folks on here say its offensive and upsetting, but I’ve never met anyone outside of the intraweb who is actually slighlty offended by the term when used in that context.

    Who decides if something is offensive?

    Hence the post…

    nickhit3
    Member

    does anyone actually have the etymology of ‘Chinky’ ? where does the word actually come from?

    outofbreath
    Member

    “no”

    So that test doesn’t work then.

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
    Subscriber

    Are you some kind of expert on racism?

    Nope, just not racist so comes easy I suppose.
    Sanctimonious yes. Racist perhaps not.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    joe wrote:

    So how do *you* find out which terms are racist and which aren’t?

    If you find yourself asking the question, normally a decent indicator it’s probably time to move on from the term.
    [/quote]
    It’s not that simple though. Once upon a time, we called people “black” because that was deemed to be more acceptable than the alternatives. Then that changed – and, as we’ve seen, it’s not all changing at the same time across the country. It’s inevitable that there will be regional variations and we’re not all swotting up on the Urban Dictionary or Wikipedia every day.

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