Is it racist…

If I didn’t know better I’d think you were trying to be offensive. That’s not very nice, is it.

I answer this one by thinking if you feel comfortable saying it to a stranger- any stranger- then no, unlikely to be racist.

An example to illustrate the point: someone new joins your work, they look oriental, you go over and introduce yourself by saying “hello chinky”. If reading this has made you uncomfortable, then you have your answer.

If I didn’t know better I’d think you were trying to be offensive. That’s not very nice, is it.

😀

I do try, i’m just not very good at it

Program is IT or information technology to you as I’m guessing you also don’t like acronyms?
Not sure why you’d guess that, but you’re wrong.

Because it’s a form of making something shorter which you don’t like according to your original post. My utter failure in an attempt at humour 😳

In the spirit of the actual thread I agree with those that say the word is racist, but can be said by people without that intent. Mainly older people who have been saying it for years.

“I answer this one by thinking if you feel comfortable saying it to a stranger- any stranger- then no, unlikely to be racist.”

Doesn’t really help me with Sassenach. I thought it was derogatory, now I’m told it’s not.

Saying it isn’t gonna help me much.

Doesn’t help me with Chinky, either, the only time I remember hearing it applied to food was a bloke saying he was so tight for cash he hadn’t had Chinky for months. I didn’t know that was racist and saying it wouldn’t have helped me guess.

Sassenach isn’t derogatory. I’m not sure of it’s etymology but here it refers to people from south of the Wall, and in the highlands it refers to people south of the highland line (Lowlanders). I think the highland term is the original one and is used by lowland Scots because we all like to think of ourselves as kilt-wearing, claymore-wielding, heather-striding, sassenach-slaying Bravehearts.

Exactly. The worst a Scotsman can do is say it with a sneer. The odd thing being that the English who live closest to Scotland are of Norse origin, not Saxon!
Maybe being called a Saxon was derogatory to a Norseman, who knows? 🙂

paddy’s day….

Or is that ok because it is only the Irish…

And just because Irish use the term i assume it is also ok to use **** because it appears plenty of song lyrics.

You know every racist slang word in use in the uk?

I bet you don’t.

I’ve access to a table of profanity words that we use for screening various communications. Shall we begin with ‘A’
A is for …

(St.)

paddy’s day

Paddy, is ok if it relates to a person called Paddy.
Reducing a a group of people to a single name, which often is not their own, is not ok.

Calling a Greek person, Stavros, is ok, if his name is Stavros, but if his name is Patrick, then call him Patrick.

calling a person by a ‘typical’ name of their country, is ok when it is their name, not when it is not.

I really can’t believe we have to explain this

Language changes.

I think it is racist, and even if you don’t, it seems an unnecessary version of the word which isn’t any shorter and seems potentially rude.

A lot of what people demonise as “political correctness” is just simple politeness and respect for others.

And, TPbiker just as one chinese mate can’t automatically represent the views of everyone of his background, neither can he tell you the word wouldn’t offend others, and give you leave to use it.

And lack of intent/knowledge/context does not make it any better, any more than saying to the police you didn’t mean to/realise you were speeding.

I do find it weird that several posters have mentioned their northerness as part of the explanation/excuse of why they might use it – or the other, corner-shop related, phrase being debated.

Thing is, we already established that this word, and others similar are offensive, yet they are still allowed on the forum, ban them as we do other offensive words or allow the other ones. I don’t understand why one form of offensive language is allowed, yet other forms are not

An example to illustrate the point: someone new joins your work, they look oriental, you go over and introduce yourself by saying “hello chinky” If reading this has made you uncomfortable, then you have your answer.

Not sure that’s a fantastic illustration to be honest, because I’d be equally uncomfortable saying “hello person of Chinese descent”.

Your example only adds weight to the idea that it is the intent and context that matters most.

mumsnet already did it, 19 pages

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1170401-Racism?pg=1&order=

In the Outlander books/TV series, the Scots hero calls his English Wife “Sassenach” repeatedly. He uses it as a term of endearment. We come back to the fact that intent is more important than the word used.

This again?

Ok I changed my stance from the previous 17 page thread. I still don’t think it’s offence as such but I stopped using it as Scotroutes have said, times change.

Sassench? Never head of it.

mumsnet already did it, 19 pages

Pretty sure I’ve had this conversation on here a couple of times before as well 😀

Ok I changed my stance from the previous 17 page thread

This could possibly be the first time anyone has changed their mind based on an STW argulympians episode.

Congrats 😉

Chinky? Its the takeaway – simplez.
Always has been, always will be whether I’m back in the midlands, down here or anywhere else for that matter!
Everyone I know uses it, did growing up and still do.
Kids use it, mate from Hong Kong uses it when he’s hungry, the chinese who live behind me own a restaurant and thats the term they used when they introduced themselves and said what they do for a living FFS!
Same as the **** shop – christ one of my best friends in leicester is a Sikh and if you’re at his race shop and you want grub he sends the “lad up the **** shop” – which is on the corner and owned by the same guy still who immigrated her in the 60’s from guess where….

Its one thing calling someone a “chink” – singular, directed and an insult.
Chinky is a takeaway/restaurant – oxford dictionary states as much.
Same goes for the way “****” is used.
The words aren’t – its how the person using them that defines the meaning.

Asking someone at my work if they want anything from the chinky or chinkies at lunchtime has and will result in being dismissed for gross misconduct. Rightly so. Maybe the word wasn’t originally offensive but after years of it being routinely followed in use by something like bastards or following an adjective like dirty etc wears thin and therefore the two uses cannot be separated. Same as ****. Same as jock and paddy can be considered offensive by some (although not nearly to the same degree).

Sassenach is an interesting one and one were IMO context is all. I have certainly heard it used as a derogatory insult based on ethnic origion ie “Eff of back to England you sassenach”

Maybe it all just depends on the restaurant? 😆

And for completeness…

Asking someone at my work if they want anything from the chinky or chinkies at lunchtime has and will result in being dismissed

Takeaways open at lunch time? Where is this fabled land in which you dwell?

Anyway, all terribly offensive. We should probably stick to talking about bikes. Anyone used these guys?

😉

Takeaways open at lunch time? Where is this fabled land in which you dwell?

West central Scotland of course!

You have takewaways closed on a lunch time?

Anyway the etymology of Welsh means Foreigner/outsider. whilst Cymru means us/fellows.

Pretty racist ideas if you think about it?

Cymru/Comrade?

Cymru/Comrade?

Possible i don’t know the etymology behind comrade but i do know that cymru is an old welsh word that was used to identify themselves.

I haven’t read beyond the first page but my view is that what constitutes racist language is all down to intent.

When someone says “I fancy a chinky tonight” they are almost certainly not doing it to insult Chinese people but are simply announcing that they fancy partaking in the culinary delights of oriental cuisine, it is not racist imo.

If however they are referring to a person as a “chinky” then there is a high probability that they intend to insult, in which case it is racist imo.

Likewise with **** shop. For me **** shop means the local convenience shop which is owned by the delightful and extremely polite Mr and Mrs Patel (who are almost certainly not Pakistani), which has a wider range of products than a Waitrose supermarket, and which remains open until ridiculously late.

If however someone is referred to as a **** the intention is almost certainly to insult them and it is indisputably racist.

It ain’t rocket science imo, it’s all down to intent seen through perspective of common-sense, concepts which both bigoted/racist right-wingers and middle-class politically correct lefties spectacularly fail to understand.

Exactly. The worst a Scotsman can do is say it with a sneer. The odd thing being that the English who live closest to Scotland are of Norse origin, not Saxon!

I have certainly heard it used as a derogatory insult based on ethnic origion ie “Eff of back to England you sassenach”

And we’re back to intent again. I could call you an effing coatrack with sufficient conviction that it’d be pretty clear that I meant it as an insult.

I don’t understand why one form of offensive language is allowed, yet other forms are not

Yes you do, you’re just looking to have an argument about it.

Aside from anything else, just look at the eloquent turns of phrase the relatively gentle flowers over on Mumsnet come out with. If swearing wasn’t verboten this place would look like the AGM of Tourette’s Anonymous.

mumsnet already did it, 19 pages

Give us time, it’s early days yet.

When someone says “I fancy a chinky tonight” they are almost certainly not doing it to insult Chinese people but are simply announcing that they fancy partaking in the culinary delights of oriental cuisine, it is not racist imo.

Whilst I agree it’s not Racist, I also don’t think it’s generally acceptable these days, so I don’t use it personally.
I wouldn’t presume someone to be racist if they did though, it would take more than just that.

I also don’t think it’s generally acceptable these days

I depends who you socialise with.

It’s generally acceptable with people who don’t over-analyse the English language and aren’t over-occupied with appearing to be political correct and not racist.

It’s not acceptable to people who are preoccupied with appearing to be politically correct and not racist.

I’m always suspicious btw of people who are preoccupied with not appearing racist. I know that I’m not racist so I feel no compulsion to prove that I’m not.

Having said that I do adjust my language depending on the company. Especially my liberal use of the c-word 🙂

The swear filter must be a nightmare for you then, Ernie. (-:

I also don’t think it’s generally acceptable these days

I depends who you socialise with.[/quote]

Which is exactly why I used the word “generally”

You know, so I was speaking “generally” about the majority who don’t use the term.
rather than “specifically” about a minority, who do.

Not at all Cougar, I am aware that when I’m on here I’m in polite company 🙂

Having said that all my early bans were for swearing…….it took a while before I realised what sort of company I was in.

Drac – Moderator
This again?

Ok I changed my stance from the previous 17 page thread. I still don’t think it’s offence as such but I stopped using it as Scotroutes have said, times change.

Sassench? Never head of it.

Yeah, me too. But I have heard of but never used sassenach.

And, don’t we do this very thread once every quarter ? Just seems to reinvigorate an argument and handwringing.

Maybe it should be a sticky.

Porridge Eater.

It is a racist term.

People have the opportunity to wipe it out all together, just call it the chinese instead, then over generations it will die out.

Or just continue to use it and make this racist term last and last.