Intense Tracer or Turner 5 spot frame?

brant – Member
There will be a used El Guapo going on on-one soon. As I just got my first 2012/2013 sample built
Really like them.
POSTED 1 DAY AGO # REPORT-POST

How well do they climb? Bikeradar review was mixed? Not that I go off reviews!

When buying a 5-6 travel frame why would ‘how it climbs’ be a consideration/question?

Surely if climbing is a big thing for you you wouldn’t be considering a long travel frame?

I bloody hope I haven’t picked the wrong horse here because I’ve cross-referenced and trusted the reviews but to talk about how a 5/6 inch frame climbs?

Hmmmmm.

I have a 6 inch bike. I use it to climb all the time. That’s the whole point of an “All mountain” bike – a bike that gets to the top, and goes down.

If I didn’t give a shit how it climbed, I’d just ride a downhill bike.

“There is absolutely no way the tracer is a better climber than the spot. Pointing down it may be slightly better but up? No chance.
I’ve owned a 5.5 and had a good amount of time on a Tracer, so this isn’t guesswork wither.”

Just your opinion and nothing more. And here is mine…

Hora, buy the bike you like the look of. Personally, I’d be more interested in a bikes pointing downwards capabilities than it’s pointing upwards capabilities. But that’s just me.

When buying a 5-6 travel frame why would ‘how it climbs’ be a consideration/
question?

How else do you get to the top of the hill?

You pedal. So long as you get there…

Hora, buy the bike you like the look of. Personally, I’d be more interested in a bikes pointing downwards capabilities than it’s pointing upwards capabilities. But that’s just me

Funnily enough, the reason he’s looking at the Spot/Tracer is because he struggles to pedal his SX Trail uphill.

No interest in how the bike climbs though, clearly.

When buying a 5-6 travel frame why would ‘how it climbs’ be a consideration/question?

Surely if climbing is a big thing for you you wouldn’t be considering a long travel frame?

I bloody hope I haven’t picked the wrong horse here because I’ve cross-referenced and trusted the reviews but to talk about how a 5/6 inch frame climbs?

Hmmmmm.
Possibly one of the most stupid things I have read on here since urrrm some other thick post.

It climbs just fine.. in or out of the saddle. If your struggling then its down to you mate.. not the bike.

Even my 6.5inch travel Slopestyle climbs pretty well, actually very well. It’s no Zesty on the ups, but I just don’t care.

For me climbing is merely getting there. Maybe to some of you mountain Goats you relish climbing as part of the experience- that’s great. I sit and spin.
I like swoopy’s undulations etc etc.

Funnily enough I climbed up Mam Tor (on the road) and Mam Tor old road on the SX trail with no pushing last weekend. Slow mind.

Nmdbase, don’t get offended dear. It was a comment. I assumed there will be compromises on a 6 inch frame in some areas for a trade off in others.

For me climbing is merely getting there.

Then surely you want to make it as painless as possible. Otherwise you’d be sticking with the SX, wouldn’t you?

There’s no real reason why a modern 160 trail bike should climb any differently to a shorter travel bike, geometry not withstanding. I can’t really feel much difference going uphill on my Mojo between the 140 and 160 setups.

I’ve got a fuel ex and like the way it climbs, my mate has an orange 5 and that climbs really well too even with more travel. Climbing is just as important for me.

my 5spot climbs just fine, It is only 130/140 travel mind.

oh and I’m an awesome powerhouse of a chap…..

I bet you descend like Snor the Cycling God 😛

Are you guys really trying to find reason in Hora’s crazy arguments? The bottom line is this:

Hora is like a retarded magpie who is always in search of the holy grail of biking. He has managed to convince himself that he is a competent all-round biker who is thwarted by each and every bicycle component he has purchased to date. He is convinced that somewhere out there is that mystical combination of frame, forks, brakes, etc., that will allow him to climb like a mountain goat and descend like Steve Peat.

As such, there will be something wrong with the 5 Spot. Maybe the geometry will be ‘all wrong’, maybe it’ll feel ‘dead’, maybe the top tube will be 0.1237″ too short, but it will prevent him from reaching nirvana. 2 months time, we shall see ‘What are people’s experiences with Knolly frames?’

I like swoopy’s undulations etc etc

I said it before and got laughed and but I’ll say it again. I reckon you’ll be far better off with a shorter travel bike as bikes like this need to be ridden hard and fast otherwise they feel dead. They do to me anyway.

I have found the (HL) 5 spot to be one of the best climbing bikes I’ve ridden but that’s also alot down to the sort of climbs you are doing. The whole point in bikes like the 5 spot and tracer is that they are designed for climbing as well as descending.

In (semi) seriousness it all depends on how you build it. I’m making a few changes to mine at the moment..
I’ve made it to heavy so while it was fantastic downhill it had become a bit of a chore up hill so its on a slight diet (as am I) Its not meant to be a lightweight cross country machine but for the longer rides I’m enjoying at the moment I’ve nearly got it right.
The bike is much MUCH better than I will ever be, it will do local blasts, and 50 mile epics no problem.
Think about what sort of riding you really do, and really enjoy and then spec it up accordingly
My 5spot must be 7/8 years old and I see no reason to change it (ever!!)

For £25 for a top car adjustor + a used uturn spring I’ve found you can turn a DH Lyrik fork into a travel adjustable U-turn Lyrik

Hora, nice one! They are a great bike.

Love mine- 2010 with 150 Revs and a “normal” headset.
It does everything. Descends at speed well, does the slow techy stuff, climbs brilliantly (I’m sure a slacker h/a would affect this), does the local singletrack and, now I’ve seen Jedi, it handles in the air too 🙂

I’d be spending on a dropper post before a fancy headset.

Agree with Stanley, i’ve got an ’09 DW Spot, with RS sektor 150 coil and a Van RC on the rear.
Managed to climb up the Mam Tor road on Saturday morning without stopping, so it can be done with a slightly heavier than normal build!
Enjoyed the blast from the top down the steps to Hollins cross!

We were there circa 9am. I climbed it with a 2.5 sticky HR on the front 🙂

I’m dreading pulling that thing off my DT rim tonight though

“Hora is like a retarded magpie who is always in search of the holy grail of biking. He has managed to convince himself that he is a competent all-round biker who is thwarted by each and every bicycle component he has purchased to date. He is convinced that somewhere out there is that mystical combination of frame, forks, brakes, etc., that will allow him to climb like a mountain goat and descend like Steve Peat.

As such, there will be something wrong with the 5 Spot. Maybe the geometry will be ‘all wrong’, maybe it’ll feel ‘dead’, maybe the top tube will be 0.1237″ too short, but it will prevent him from reaching nirvana. 2 months time, we shall see ‘What are people’s experiences with Knolly frames?’
“

Brilliant – I know how he feels. I’m on the come down from this myself and its not a good place to be. Having done lots of investigation into “better” bikes (Tracer setup is great now Dans 160) I find I can’t relieve myself of my Tracer.

Fyi, Singletrack (yes, this one) in thier recent Tracer2 review commented on the TracerVP as “…the closest thing to a genuine all mountain bike…” with regard to going up and then going down again.

Its original review (and comments in a latter Spider2 review) are “Singletrack recommended”, and the MBR review scores it 1 point below the Five spot on what they admit was “the personal preference of the testers”.

Its also well know that both VPP and DW link bikes are good climbers.

Its a good bike Hora (the five spot) you’ll find plenty of evidence that you should have bought “something else” – thats how I found all the good comments about Tracers detailed above, but stick with it.

I imagine like me, your new bike is more capable than you are. I constantly find myself in front (up and down) with mates on bigger, heavier and smaller, lighter or just “other” bikes, and then find them in front of me on mud / technical sections – is it the bike or me? Me, of course…. which leads me to:

“Its not about the bike” 😉

Well.

I personally ride a DW Spot with 1 degree HAS from Israel and Lyrik Solo Air @ 150 mm. The shock is stock RP23 with DGC mod to prevent bottoming.

This thing does climb. I’ve owned a Pivot Mach 5 before this and I can tell that overall pedaling efficiency of the Spot is probably on par with Mach 5. Mach 5 is ‘zippier’ a bit (but I ran it with air Pikes) but generally Spot is equally capable of picking up and maintaining speed.

FWIW I don’t really think that 1 degree change in HA has affected climbing in any way. But I like the new handling better.

I’d say that Spot in this setup has quite a neutral character – you just ride and it just does the job. And does it very well. The best experience IMO is when you don’t think of the bike and almost don’t notice it, and Spot delivers quite often.

Have never ridden a Tracer though. I did own a 5.5 and think it climbs exceptionally well, but overall has too steep geo for me and the frame build is miles behind the Turner.

P.S. And £1K for a brand new Turner 2010 with warranty? This really looks like a steal, I paid this much for my used frame this spring!

I would agree the Tracer2 will be an amazing frame. I just don’t have £1,800 either in my piggy bank or would I pay that much.

£1,000 for a frame is my natural limit. I’d rather spend the money on my nipper/replacing bits on cars that I wear out/red wine/food/All Saints. FFS this frame just cost more than fun little Ford Puma cost me!

Stopa’ the SX trails frame – you saw how BMX it looked was sadly about 2inches too short on me. If I ever come across a large one though I’d have it as second build.

FWIW I wouldn’t compare a 5.5 with a Tracer. They are chalk & cheese (well ok, maybe ham & cheese).

I’m a previous 5.5 owner two, the Tracer is slacker, more balanced, more confident and stronger, not to mention has vpp2 which make a fair bit of difference.

Hora – I wasnt recommending a Tracer 2. Just commenting back on Stopadoodledoo, and the fact that hours and ££££’s can be spent on trying to find the perfect bike, but at this level (and for £1000) you have an excellent frame. I paid less than RRP for my TracerVP so I’m in the same boat as you but with a different frame. FWIW I was eyeing up that Merlin deal at the beginning of the week. 🙂

GET IT BOUGHT!!

the price is a steal, the bikes are great, the customer service is spot on.

what more do you want?

oh and that Sangria Red is very nice indeed.

Kryton- I see where you are coming from. I was eyeing up the Tracer frames at £999 with Wiggle but I dithered too long then they sold out.

Its already bought and built Vortex. Just waiting for the 180 rotor and adaptor from superstar’

sorry, 😳 got lost in all the comments and remarks over the past 3 pages.

Enjoy, mine is great, as AndreyE pointed out they just seem to go about their business without any fuss.

BTW, Piccies?

I just got a Devinci Hectik for pretty much what you describe. Took it to Massif Central for 3 weeks. 500-1500m ascents and great rocky downs all day long. I think its a really good bike. I’m coming off a hardtail so was afraid I’d encounter bob but it just didn’t happen. Never tried the other bikes you mention (have had a 5). Perhaps worth a look as they are well priced like the 5 spot and can be got on cyclescheme too.

Couple of points I 😐

the seat/top tube brace – on the large you can clearly see where they’ve sprayed to a point then given up (not a biggy but its visible/shows attention to detail).

In the ‘nip behind where the top tube meets the downtube the red goes slightly pink. Again where the sprayer probably didn’t give enough attention to detail.

Wish I’d inspected the frame in the shop but I only noticed this after I’d already instead headset and BB.

Again no biggy but I assumed turner would have better QC.

Just ride it Hora. Pics and ride report please when done.
Take your shock pump with you though, it can take a bit of fettling to get the RP23 feeling right.

ffs- I thought I was a fussy bugger!

It’ll be chipped and marked soon enough anyway- if you ride it enough 😉

Some advice on initial set up?
The bushings may well be a bit tight to start off with. This is a GOOD thing. They bed in brilliantly with use (mine took a couple of months of regular use to get really nice—— wearing in, not out!)
Maybe unbolt one end of the shock, move it out of the way and feel how the back end moves now. Probably tight but it will loosen up. I reckon that anybody but a lightweight midget won’t much notice it anyway.
About 1/3 sag (16-17mm at the shock) when sat on bike with weight mainly over seat.
No propedal- EVER. It really doesn’t need it.

Quite a good review and looking at the vid the reviewer looked like he was really wiggling the bike/having a hoot (Stopa I give the review 4 hoots out of 5).

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/turner-5-spot-review-2010.html

You’ll get use to the frame creaking, as even the 2011 models still do it.

Thats an interesting review. The ride and suspemsion characteristics are almost identical to how I’ve seen a Tracer reviewed, even down to a car analogy (my version have BMW vs Chevrolet ride impressions) of a “sport” type suspension.

And I’d review my Tracer the same way – not super plush over the small bumps, you can “feel” every pebble (in a good way) but great traction and it opens up magnificiantly in large dips/bigger landings.

I’m kinda glad I didn’t make a snap decision on Monday to buy what seems to be a very similar riding frame.

I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.

Thats interesting- the reviewed bike has a Boost-valved Fox but mine (and others for sale) don’t.

Its also well know that both VPP and DW link bikes are good climbers.

i assume that VPP2 is a radical improvement from the initial incarnation then? My Mk1 Nomad was the worst climbing bike Ive ever ridden, every pedal stroke compressed the lower link effectively shortening the chain stay and pulling the rear wheel foward 3/4″. Bought it as my dream bike having totally loved the look of it and read the “genre defining all mountain bike” reviews, sold it quicker than any other bike in 18 years of riding. Replaced with a single pivot (Alpine 160) which climbs like a race hardtail by comparison.

I dont live for the joy of climbing and thats not what 160mm bikes are about (disabled the floodgate on my Lyrik to improve plushness at theoretical expense of pedalling efficiency) but a lousy climber can ruin a ride.

Christ on a bendybus! You’re moaning and finding fault with it already.

Here’s my prediction. You’ll hate it! You’ll constantly find fault with it*. As you do with every other of the 9,684 frames you’ve owned. Within 4 months (absolute tops!) it’ll be on the classifieds, and you’ll buy another Blur. You may have a stop gap in between. Maybe a ‘I want another hardtail’ moment, that’ll last a week.

You heard it here first folks. Put your house on it

* you will however try 12 different sets of forks, 19 different sets of brakes, Endless bar/stem/bell end combinations

The biking world needs people like Hora.

Where else would the endless supply of hardly ridden, half price frames and forks come from?