Ineos Grenadier gives cyclists a Toot

Sounds like a great idea for France, but in the UK I imagine most car drivers would prefer their bike tooter looking like this

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I can’t think of any time a motorist has ever honked at me and it’s been a good thing. It’s always meant “get out of my way”

An awful lot of people on here are projecting their own prejudices onto other people’s actions. I am reminded of when I give a polite ‘ting ‘ting warning on the bell on a cycle path & the pedestrian construes this as ‘get out of my way’

Because if you ride anywhere outside of town it’s entirely possible to be subject to a headwind or just general wind noise and higher car speeds which makes it impossible to hear traffic coming up behind unless they have to slow right down behind you long enough to be noticed?

A polite ‘toot’ would have been appreciated in those circumstances

Why? What are you going to do on hearing a ‘toot,’ throw your bike into a hedge?

If I’m riding somewhere where I’m likely to encounter traffic then I’ll tuck in when it’s safe to overtake and take primary when it is not. Who or what is behind me is irrelevant, it’s just safe and considerate riding. They can toot all they like, if it’s not safe to overtake then it’s not safe to overtake and they can wait the several seconds until it is.

We manage to ding bells for walkers without turning into a frothing at the mouth Brexit voting gammon?

This is kinda the same argument. People go apoplectic about cyclists riding two-abreast, yet will cheerfully take up the entirety of a path half a mile wide. The bell shouldn’t be necessary and wouldn’t be necessary if folk acknowledged that they weren’t the only people on the planet.

Why? What are you going to do on hearing a ‘toot,’ throw your bike into a hedge?

I think you might just be looking for an argument here.

The bell shouldn’t be necessary and wouldn’t be necessary if folk acknowledged that they weren’t the only people on the planet.

Ah, yes… yes you are.

This is kinda the same argument. People go apoplectic about cyclists riding two-abreast, yet will cheerfully take up the entirety of a path half a mile wide. The bell shouldn’t be necessary and wouldn’t be necessary if folk acknowledged that they weren’t the only people on the planet.

Not what the HC says.
Essentially you could argue that you should never need a bell/horn at all. After all, if it is meant as a warning, and you have time to give a warning, then you will also have time to stop or carry out an evasive manoeuvre. Yet it is a legal requirement to have a working horn on a mtor vehicle or a bell to be fitted to a new bike. So that’s what its for, to give people a warning that you are behind them. Plenty of people seem to expect to get that warning, judging by the ‘why haven’t you got a bell’ type comments you get if you don’t use it. Don’t blame me, but it seems to be an underlying assumption in law that there might be occasions when giving a warning is totally appropriate & useful.

@nickc
Try not to be a complete cock.

This is – arguably – a cycling forum, isn’t it? Guess not. Carry on gammoning.

Really ? You’re confident you come across as intelligent by posting that?

This is kinda the same argument. People go apoplectic about cyclists riding two-abreast, yet will cheerfully take up the entirety of a path half a mile wide. The bell shouldn’t be necessary and wouldn’t be necessary if folk acknowledged that they weren’t the only people on the planet.

So in this scenario, is the walker supposed to jump in the hedge? Or does the cyclist stay behind them until there’s a sufficiently wide bit of path (I’m not looking for an argument, just repeating yours back to you).

“ping/toot” and overtake at a safe margin without making anyone jump out of their skin at the presence of faster traffic overtaking.

Your horn is there to announce your presence to other road users.
They have added a specific short “toot” function so that cyclists don’t feel threatened when it’s used .
I utterly fail to see why that causes the vitriol seen here.
Some of you are like professionally offended.

I’m sure it’ll only be Tories that buy them anyway.
I’ve registered my interest in pre-ordering

Just so long as the cable used to wire up the tooter is of sufficient audiophile quality, I don’t see what the issue is.

I wonder if it’s been tested with Schrödinger’s microphone?

The problem i have with this interior is it is yet more pointless fakery in the name of something that has NO application in a car.

Aircraft have removable instruments that bolt into standard sized slots for two main reasons:

1) The instruments have to be regularily inspected, serviced and calibrated. Soemthing like a radar altemeter must be accurate or you’ll fly into a mountain, so being able to remove a single instrument easily is a real benefit. When was the last time you had the heater controls of your car inspected? anyone?? anyone at all??

2) Aircraft instruments are NOT made by the airframe manufacturers, so std sized bolt in instruments allows an external instrument maker to design a standard instrument that will fit in all sorts of planes. if you make say artificial horizons, then you’ll want everyone to use them, not just one airframe manufacturer. So again, bolt-in standardised instrument is sensible. The controls and displays in your car are (effectively) made by the people who make the car (or by an external supplier to there individual specs). Nobody needs to put say a BMW 3 series speedometer into a Ford Mondeo, and the manufacturers use these instruments as part of their styling and atributes, ie they are NOT standardised

And yet, here are Ineos, doing some naff faux aircraft type mountings, why? It doesn’t even look very good imo, and all those extra fastners are just asking to come loose and rattle.
So, for me, it’s another naff marketing lead load of bull, that adds nothing to the vehicle and is actually counter to the claimed ethos of the vehicle…….

why?

Did you watch the video? Easy access for wiring in any add ons or replacements/upgrades.

I utterly fail to see why that causes the vitriol seen here.

I have to agree. A less abrasive horn for other road users not cocooned in metal. Why is that such a bad thing?

Fasteners coming loose and rattling? It’s just staying true to the spirit of the original defender 😀 The real test though will be whether it leaks – I bet it doesn’t – nothing leaks like a landy!

I invented* the quiet secondary tooter years ago, very useful for getting the attention of other humans without scaring them witless.
I didn’t realise I had become a cyclist hating, er, cyclist by doing so, nobody seemed to mind as it it sounded more like a well held note from a rectum.
*I don’t claim to be the only one who did so.

I like this idea now.

Is it some kind of fun noise too?

I think the idea of a gentler toot for cyclists is actually a good one.

As for the quasi military internal styling, that also makes sense. Someone pointed out a few pages back that a fossil fuelled vehicle didn’t make a lot of sense. But for the prepper/camo-wearing wannabees it makes a lot of sense. An electric vehicle requires a lot of industrial infrastructure behind it and is therefore useless after the fall of civilisation – but a diesel that will run on vegetable oil will be fine.

Preppers will be setting up multiple sources of renewable energy, no?

No. They aren’t interested in that sort of prepping.

but a diesel that will run on vegetable oil will be fine.

Indeed . So nothing post turn of the century pretty much then. Certainly not the grenedier unless you are gonna swap out the engine.

Weren’t the (slightly incestuously rapey) preppers in a landrover killed in the end of Day of the Triffids by contaminating the diesel?

I’d drive it and toot the horn for shits and giggles 🙂

I hope it makes a “Poop-Poop” noise like Mr Toad’s car in The Wind In The Willows.

How about a “bing bong” as in “Avon calling”?

All they need now is to ensure that every repair only requires a flat-blade screw driver, an 8mm socket and a 4lb lump hammer, and I’d buy one myself.

Looks like you need allen keys too.

Anyhow they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my eye sees a hideous lump inside and out.

Is it some kind of fun noise too

perhaps they can change it from ‘toot’ to ‘tut’

Doesn’t bode well, for the poor cyclist, out there, reading the road in front, occasional check behind, for some car to sneak up behind before giving them a TOOT, probably as close in as possible, resulting. break the concentration through to getting a start and going all wobbly.
It’s not needed.
Try this out by totting cars when passing an articulated lorry and see how many friends you have waving hand signals at you.

Did you watch the video? Easy access for wiring in any add ons or replacements/upgrades.

From what I can ‘cupholder’ must be on the upgrade  list then 🙂

But I can think of plenty of occasions, especially on country lanes, where being made aware of the presence of a vehicle, without being made to jump out of your skin, would be useful.

Unless you wear headphones or are hearing impaired you would hear a car behind you. On country lanes safe overtaking spots are limited, please tell why it’s not a “move over” “toot”?

Why does the designer “toot” so often at cyclists? I don’t think I have ever used my horn at a cyclist, why does he need to do it so often it’s a fixture on a steering wheel?

Unless you wear headphones or are hearing impaired you would hear a car behind you. On country lanes safe overtaking spots are limited, please tell why it’s not a “move over” “toot”?

Rubbish. You always can’t hear cars coming up behind you. Modern cars are very quiet and if you’ve got wind noise going on you have zero chance of hearing an apporoaching car from behind. Garmin seems to realise this or they wouldn’t have made a rear radar to let you know of approaching cars. A toot will alert you to a car coming up. On UK narrow country lanes it’s not always possible to leave the golden 3m clearance when passing. and its utter nonsense for a cyclist to expect a driver to hold back for a mile or more until the road widens, so sometimes drivers have to pass closer than 3m. When I do this I slow down and pass slowly. Also it should not be a ridiculous notion for cyclists to be a bit more thoughtful and on narrow country lanes to either pull over to the left to make it easier for a car to pass, or even pull in and let them pass if you know the stretch of narrow road goes on for a while. Who wants a car breathing up their arse for a mile or more?? I don’t. So a gentle toot from behind alerts the cyclist to your presence and helps a safe pass for all involved.

Or you can just continue with the current silly cyclic vs driver nonsense that we so enjoy right now.

(I’m not looking for an argument, just repeating yours back to you).

But you aren’t.

The post I replied to was something something headwind hearing something, it was from the point of view of the cyclist not the driver. But if you’re not riding like a nob selfishly taking up all of the road then a blast (or toot) from a horn behind shouldn’t be necessary.

The walkers taking up the whole of the road / path was from the point of view, again, of the cyclist not the walkers. If they’re not walking like nobs selfishly taking up all of the road then the bell similarly shouldn’t be necessary.

Whether you’re on foot or on wheels you should be conscious that faster traffic may be behind you and you should yield when it is safe to do so. If you walk / ride to that assumption then it shouldn’t matter whether there’s anyone actually behind you or not as you’re already progressing courteously.

On UK narrow country lanes it’s not always possible to leave the golden 3m clearance when passing. and its utter nonsense for a cyclist to expect a driver to hold back for a mile or more until the road widens, so sometimes drivers have to pass closer than 3m.

1.5 m is the minimum safe passing distance and if yo cannot give that 1.5 m then its not safe to overtake and you wait until it is.

Design of that ‘toot’ button reminds me of a Belkin Bluetooth headphone adapter I used to have. Except this has the bike icon where the play button should be.

As a result it’s a design that seems to go against convention. Why put a weird extra function in the place of an expected one?

Finding myself more on the side of the haters of the ‘toot’ button and the vehicle. Though ‘hate’ is a strong word. The whole thing is just not to my taste.

All this bile and whinging makes me want one.

Anyway, the “toot” should be a random Kenneth Williams sample.

it seems to be an underlying assumption in law that there might be occasions when giving a warning is totally appropriate & useful.

A ting of your bell before passing a narrow bridge on a a tow path with restricted visibility is a good idea – and I’ve seen not doing that result in people going for a swim!

Similarly there’s a dreadful junction near me where anyone who knows it hoots on their approach.

The Genadier is supposed to be a working vehicle (the whole interior can be hosed out for example with drain plugs in the footwells etc). I think the base model is targeted at £35k.

The ‘cheery toot’ button is bollocks though – the designers are not cyclists apparently and have not realised how easy it is to hear as car coming up behind.

A ting of your bell

But car horns and bicycle bells aren’t equivalents. They may aim to do the same thing, but the response to them is different.

How about a “bing bong” as in “Avon calling”?

I rather like the idea of “Ding Dong” Leslie Phillips stylee…..

I’m not a fan of Jim, or the Grenadier, but I don’t mind a soft toot button, I sometimes will give a tap on the horn when heading towards a cyclist/ a group of cyclists in certain circumstances just to warn them that there’s something coming up behind them. I don’t do it right behind because I still to look some distance ahead of me.
I’ve ridden a lot in Europe and a lot of drivers give a double toot to do the exact same thing. Just like I usually give a toot coming into a hairpin bend to alert other road users that something is on the road out of view.

The ‘cheery toot’ button is bollocks though – the designers are not cyclists apparently and have not realised how easy it is to hear as car coming up behind.

The designer says in the interview that they regularly use their car horn to “alert” cyclists to their presence in a car

As for the “toot” itself, no one has heard it

I imagine the first time it gets used on Jim Ratcliffe on a training ride in Monaco will be the last time it’s fitted to the car

I sometimes will give a tap on the horn when heading towards a cyclist/ a group of cyclists in certain circumstances just to warn them that there’s something coming up behind them.

What response are you expecting from the people cycling?

It’s a move over and let me past button, can’t be anything else. If you’ve no intention of forcing your way past why does the cyclist even need to know you are there ?

I’ve registered my interest in pre-ordering

And there we have it. The name calling and aggression are doing a great job of putting you firmly in the exact personality band that nickc described with their first post…