lol

MY aggression ? haha You’re a funny guy.

£35K ?? pull the other one

a base spec Hilux is that sort of money, made in the millions and able to share it’s development and manufacturing costs with the massive number of other Toyota’s made.

This Grenadire is one vehicle, expensively engineered by an (expensive) consultant, and made in a factory all on it’s own.

At anything less than £55k they’ll be loosing money on each and every one they sell…….

Your horn is there to announce your presence to other road users.
They have added a specific short “toot” function so that cyclists don’t feel threatened when it’s used .
I utterly fail to see why that causes the vitriol seen here.

For once, and probably the only time :-), I agree. Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.

I can’t actually see many drivers using it though as it would mean a level of respect to cyclists which is not common for most drivers is it. The drivers who use it will be the ones that already slow down a bit, give loads of room, don’t pass on blind corners etc,.

**** me, what a couple of fun sponges.

Lol! That’s so good, it’s almost art.

Is it some kind of fun noise too?

On second thoughts, I’m in if it’s this:

Or possibly some French dude shouting ‘Allez, allez!’

I’ve got one to go on my bike

The drivers who use it will be the ones that already slow down a bit, give loads of room, don’t pass on blind corners etc,.

So, the ones unlikely to be driving a Grenadier?

Folk go on line this car is another posh 4×4 for footballers wife wannabes.
It’s absolutely not.
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender

It’s a serious tool to replace defender

Most people driving the newer defenders around here appear to fit the posh 4×4 description, so I predict that the main market is for serious tools, rather than being one. Working 4x4s are older defenders or hilux type things this way.

It’s a defender for serious tools

It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender

Well that was the design brief but it’s suffered serious scope creep.

Is there anything worth reading on pages 2,3,4 of this thread, say I say the socks thread was a 2/10 for worthiness, how does this compare?

Folk go on line this car is another posh 4×4 for footballers wife wannabes.
It’s absolutely not.
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender

LOL

No one has driven the production model, there will be more in London than the rest of the UK

What on earth is this for? You drive up behind a cyclist, you give them a “toot”. What then do you expect them to do? And what do you do if they don’t?

You should expect them to do absolutely nothing. Carry on as before. It’s on you to overtake properly at the next safe opportunity. And FFS they already know you’re there. So what is this button going to add to the world except to make driving even worse among folk who are already dangerous enough?

I have a pretty relaxed attitude and am no militant but “friendly toot” my arse. I can’t see any good in this.

Its only mitigating factor is that they won’t sell many of these monstrosities.

Interior makes sense to me, but I spend my days driving an old defender and tractor.

I’m just waiting on them doing a super cab pickup or something like my 130 as I don’t want the fuel cans in the cab and it needs to fit fenceposts in.
People like myself aren’t a big market, but there isn’t a lot of choice for something like this either.

What on earth is this for? You drive up behind a cyclist, you give them a “toot”. What then do you expect them to do? And what do you do if they don’t?

You should expect them to do absolutely nothing. Carry on as before. It’s on you to overtake properly at the next safe opportunity. And FFS they already know you’re there.

The point is you may not know they are already there. Just as people walking may not know I am close behind them so a polite ring of bell let’s them know so it is not a shock when I ride past. Pretty much everyone says thank you.

That is all in theory though and in reality it is fairly pointless as a car is a lot noisier than my bike and I can always hear cars behind me from quite a way back and as I said before the drivers who would care enough to use this feature are not the drivers who you need to know are behind you.

There may be a few

drivers who would care enough to use this feature

but in that context “feature” is not just the button but how it’s used. I think cyclists’ concern is about how the existence of this red button might contribute to the negative behaviour of so many others, who I think it is very unlikely will use it in this way.

Just so long as the cable used to wire up the tooter is of sufficient audiophile quality, I don’t see what the issue is.

There is one cable for the toot horn function in forward gears and another for the same function in reverse gear.

Serious question here:

No one has driven the production model, there will be more in London than the rest of the UK

Is that the case for Defenders, Hi-lux’s etc…? Not looking for an argument – does anyone have some stats on this…?

For once, and probably the only time :-), I agree. Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.

Exactly. And while we’re at it I hope we’re all tooting our horns as we approach blind bends and hump back bridges to alert people on the other side of you approaching? That’s Advanced Motoring technique there. All it is is something to alert people to your presence and give them notice you’re coming. It’s not an instruction or order to take any action, just an awareness thing. This is nothing new and is ultimately the prime purpose of having a horn fitted to your car in the first place. Its law to have a functioning horn on your car…not so you can tell someone you thing they’re a **** if they pull out on you, but to alert others to your presence and increase overall awareness out on the busy roads and ultimately improve safety. I really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me. I’ve always tooted as I approach a blind bend or hump back bridge, but wouldn’t toot a cyclist because I know their first reaction is likely to be some hand gesture aimed at me. But what a nice world it would be if I were to toot a cyclist on a tight country road and they gave a nice ‘thank you’ wave back.

Tooting your horn at blind corners and so on is correct usage. tooting behind cyclists is not and serves no purpose but ” get out of my way pleb”

wobbliscvott – damn right you get a signal of disapproval because its incorrect usage of the horn saying – get out of my way pleb

Well that was the design brief but it’s suffered serious scope creep.

Has it? Seems to be pretty much what was promised when the first teaser video’s came out. Sure there will be a long and expensive accessory list for people to spec it up if they really want to spend serious money…but fundamentally it’s got the suspension and 4×4 set up that was promised and all the fundamental off roady stuff. They may have tarted up the interior a bit bt that’s just cheap tatt and hardly ‘scope creep’. Just bolt on stuff borrowed from the BMW parts bin and others. And these days people do want some niceties even in their ‘work’ vehicles. Seen a modern day tractor? Got A/C and kick ass stereo’s and everything these days.

get out of my way pleb”

If your horn said this it would be pretty impressive but also it’d be an MOT failure

Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.

Just so you know I don’t find 90% of bike bell use polite either! I live right next to a canal tow path and they are more often than not rung far too late and with exactly the same “let me past” message. Other than people with headphones in I’ve never found a need to ring a bell to make walkers aware of my presence except at tunnels/bridges etc – but I’m usually quite happy to hang behind people rather than blast past.

sirromj

Is there anything worth reading on pages 2,3,4 of this thread

Don’t worry, luket and kerley have start the same discussion up again, so you can start from page 5.

Sorry, I skipped pages 2,3 and 4.
There won’t be anything worth reading though as it is split between people thinking a polite warning is the same as a blast on the horn and others thinking it is just courteous.

Other than people with headphones in I’ve never found a need to ring a bell to make walkers aware of my presence except at tunnels/bridges etc – but I’m usually quite happy to hang behind people rather than blast past.

I ride on gravel roads most of the time and pretty much every ride there are people walking along not really thinking about bikes coming past so making them aware (when I am a good distance away) is polite and let’s them know I am coming. Pre bell they would sometimes jump in shock when I was by the side of them.

I’m surprised no one’s suggested they drive one up behind their own TdF team and see if the toot helps them go a bit quicker!

wobbliscott
Full Member

I really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me.

I think this is the whole thing… Nobody really struggles with the concept of the “polite toot” which people will use considerately and thoughtfully in a way that provides a net benefit for motorist and cyclist. It’s a perfectly lovely fantasy.

But in the real world that’ll happen, ooh, 1% of the time at most? In practice they’ve put a picture of a bike on a horn and that will mostly encourage people to honk horns at bikes. It’ll be a get-out-of-my-way button way, way more often than it’s a “polite toot”

When you post something hinting at directional audio cables and no one cares…

I really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me.

because this is not what horns should be used for, its dangerous and adds to the entitlement of many car drivers

There is NO such thing as a polite toot behind a cylist. You should not be doing this

This is from the highway code guidence

A horn should only be used when warning someone of any danger due to another vehicle or any other kind of danger, and not to indicate your annoyance.

So you should NOT be using your horn behind a cyclist

There is NO such thing as a polite toot behind a cylist. You should not be doing this

Are we back to opinion vs fact or was that another topic?

Its opinion backed by the highway code. See the guidence above.

Is it a horn though. Has anybody actually heard what it sounds like and how loud it is in real life, stood in front of the vehicle?
If I cycled around blowing an air horn at walkers that is very different to me clicking on my mechanical bell…

It does not matter what it sounds like. the horn is there if someone is in danger and if the car driver driving properly they will not put the cyclist in danger.

Well they could have avoided all this negativity by having a green button.

@tjagain

Letting someone know you are behind them or approaching them IS letting them know of a potential danger.
Plenty sound a quick toot on the horn behind me and I appreciate it.

Maybe take the massive chip off your shoulder and get over the fact that not everyone hates you and some are just being polite.

And I don’t care what the Highway Code says , it’s not law and is open to interpretation, hence why it is so vague

This is from the highway code guidence

A horn should only be used when warning someone of any danger due to another vehicle or any other kind of danger, and not to indicate your annoyance.

So you should NOT be using your horn behind a cyclist

And a car coming up behind a cyclist is not a potential danger???? I think it is. So yes you should and can be using your horn to toot a cyclist…its what the advanced motoring bods teach…and most of what’s in the Highway Code is not law…its the hghway CODE, not the Highway LAW. Better tooting your horn to warn a cyclist of your approach just so they know your coming rather than the way its used today i.e. as an audible way to stick a finger up at someone who’s p-d you off…often sounded after the event when the danger has passed.

Seriously what harm could it do if everyone realised the meaning of it and appreciated it..you never know there might be fewer cyclsits knocked off their bikes…..God forbid if we arm people with more situational awareness!!

There is NO such thing as a polite toot behind a cylist.

Have you never been passed by a mate when they’re in a car and you’re on a bike?
Pretty easy to tell a friendly toot from a mate.