Have we done today's PMQ?

You know, the one where Corbyn wiped the floor with DC and the Tories were laughing at people in poverty.

Some people in poverty deserve to be there

The thick ,feckless ,lazy ,spendthrifts you know the sort ,or 8 kids and no means of supporting them

Do you like pulling fishing lures behind a boat?

Good performance by Corbyn today.

Channel 4 news didn’t give it more than 2 mins, in fact less than when Ed Milliband was doing it. There was more on the Booker Prize winner. Main political focus was on tonight’s vote on the fiscal charter. Did I miss something ?

no you saw enough to tell us corbyn looked old and tired that dave was dynamic and vibrant and that Corbyn wont win the election

Not much. Corbyn being his usual composed self and the Tory back benchers behaving like a pack of baboons who’ve found the keeper’s booze stash.

Actually it was the labour back benchers that were behaving like a bunch of baboons.

said the tory

Missed a bit, but tuned in just in time to hear Geremy pay tribute to Jeraint. *Wince*

JY I don’t think they even showed Corbyn at all, I only recall the conversations about the vote and how some Labour MPs ever likely to abstain as Corbyn and McDonald themselves had done in the prior vote on the issue.

Must admit, I thought Cameron more than got the better of the exchanges.

wobbliscott – Member
Actually it was the labour back benchers that were behaving like a bunch of baboons.

It wasn’t.

Must admit, I thought Cameron more than got the better of the exchanges.

Which one of the two resorted to shouting and ducking the questions that were asked?

Corbyn did a lot better than last time, but PMQs is an irrelevance except for the PLP/PCP. The abtentions tonight were lower than expected so maybe they were happier than expected, but I don’t think Cameron is losing any sleep over PMQs. He will be quite happy to continue along these lines.

wanmankylung – Member
Must admit, I thought Cameron more than got the better of the exchanges.
Which one of the two resorted to shouting and ducking the questions that were asked?

Well consider that it’s PMQ’s there’s only one of them that can dodge the questions! 😆

PMQ’s aren’t really about the questions, it’s about who looks and comes across as strongest. That was Cameron.

The Guardian called Corbyn flacid, doesn’t sound like I missed much and no surprise Channel 4 skipped over it.

But none of it appeared to discomfort Cameron much at all. In fact, he appeared to find the whole encounter about as unsettling as an interview on ITV’s This Morning. Corbyn used follow-up questions today, unlike in his first PMQs, when he tried six questions on six topics, but they were flaccid, and they did not really advance his case. As I have said many times before, questions at PMQs are not about eliciting answers; they are a means by which MPs articulate a political argument. A leader of the opposition needs to be able to “weaponise” them. Corbyn has not found a way of doing that, although it is not clear yet whether that is down to ineptitude, or whether that it is because overt point-scoring is part of the “old politics” that he has decided to reject

He brushes up rather well. Even the top button was done up and a tie!

Well done that man.

The baying mob were a bit rude to Ms Lucas.

JC: Kelly a single mum to a disabled child…

DC: Also, Kelly if she has children….

He didn’t even listen to the question.

You don’t understand PMQ. Corbyn can try and change it, but he will fail.

Once the novelty and amusement factor are put aside, it’s a bloody sorry state of affairs. We really need a proper opposition at the moment and this is not it. Politics gets more debased by the day.

Tonight’s Newsnignt coverage should have been on CBBC or BBC3 – crass and childish. Even made Nicola look good afterwards.

Corbyn wasnt exactly inspiring

Cameron much more self assured and confident, the only time he was rattled was the question about tax credits hitting poorer children

you could see that cameron himself didnt believe his own answers, he got red faced and huffy, not because he looses much sleep over punishing poor kids for being poor, but because it knows it makes him look bad.

Corbyn should’ve pressed it further at that point

The secondary breast cancer point was also very valid (albeit not exciting) the cuts to research and NHS funding have left big holes in data and sample collection for research

Saying that maybe Corbyn is play rope a dope, give a few rounds, then come out all guns blazing when the guard is down! 😆

kimbers – Member

Corbyn should’ve pressed it further at that point

Yup. The rest of it felt more or less like a rally, just batting it back and forth but that was where Cameron was weak and looked weak and he should have been into him like a knife. Especially considering last week’s “tories take the middle ground” fantasy.

I don’t think Corbyn did badly but he needs to do more than that

Tonight’s Newsnignt coverage should have been on CBBC or BBC3 – crass and childish. Even made Nicola look good afterwards.

Andrew Neil is the only political interviewer on the BBC worth the money they get paid

Newsnight seems to be in a death spiral to irrelevance which will be a loss

Interesting, I think A Neil was part of the whole dumbing down process. The silly cartoons and intros.

The dumbing down of Newsnight is a real shame. We lack insightful political and economic analysis. Marr is about the best but I would rather be outside at 09:00 on a Sunday.

Peston’s elevated status sums the whole media status up pretty well really

The Guardian called Corbyn flacid, doesn’t sound like I missed much and no surprise Channel 4 skipped over it.

The same guardian piece also had the times saying he won and the independent but hey you just go with the confirmation bias pick as I predicted in my initial response to you

Tonight’s Newsnignt coverage should have been on CBBC or BBC3 – crass and childish

They coudl learn a thing or two from your exchanges on here then 😀
OH the irony [ applies to me as well to be fair]

I agree with your last post Neil is over rated and WTF is going on wiht erm ur well its seems that erm we should erm uhh see that Preston
Poor presentation matched by his analysis

I dont watch much media as it is so adversarial. Radio 4 had Humprhies interviewing someone saying it was wrong re Syrian numbers and we should do more He pressed and pressed for an an exact number as if this answer somehow negated their point and presumably so he could then just argue about that number rather than discuss the point they were making. We should take in ore and there are internationally recognised ways of calculating it fairly

The public gets what it deserves and we seem to want PR savvy politicians and interviewers who think their job is to interrogate as politicians ignore their questions

I almost never watch PMQ PM, of all hues, always win and its aside show tp baying masses of the PLP and the PCP and a really unedifying sight. FFS it even makes us look grown up mature and respectful of each other

He pressed and pressed for an an exact number

Good, an exact(ish) number is exactly what anyone who says 20k isn’t enough should be providing.

WHy?

We should build more affordable housing

It really is possible to discuss why we should do this without an exact figure , location and by whom they should be built.

all they will then do is discuss the answer and ignore the principle/point

In that case the number depended on many factors not least was how many entered europe and as this was unknown no answer can be given. We can say what % of those we would take but that was not good enough.

all they will then do is discuss the answer and ignore the principle/point

In a discussion about “correct” refugee numbers the suggested correct number of refugees *is* the principle point.

The point made was that we should take more. More is a principle it is not a number

Discussing the later ignores the former – see also the housing example.

i this morning had a headline saying Corbyn planned to annoy the visiting Chinese about human rights, but I can’t find on their site.

Would be interesting if he does throw away the script and speak up.

Or does this belong in the other thread?

JY you need to start worrying about how Corbyn and Labour are going to counter the dialogue we are seeing and ask yourself why the UK’s leading mainstream left wing newspaper is positioned against him. Flacid is pretty much the same as old, lacking energy etc. It’s pretty telling to see a paper like the Guradian using that language

@molgrips Corbyn met the Chinese yesterday, it was mentioned briefly during the Channel 4 news interview. What pressure can the leader of a minority UK party who almost certainly survive to the next election possibly bring on China ? Boris J being in China promoting business at the moment is far more significant than whatever Corbyn has to say.

JY you need to start worrying about how Corbyn and Labour are going to counter the dialogue we are seeing and ask yourself why the UK’s leading mainstream left wing newspaper is positioned against him.

And you definitely want to keep ignoring everything else that counters your narrative and not even think about your own bias and selective quoting. WHat did the rest of the article say ? I read it yesterday long before you posted it.

Flacid is pretty much the same as old, lacking energy etc

If you just ignore what all those words mean that is a very good point

It’s pretty telling to see a paper like the Guardian using that language

I refer you to your constant quest for confirmation of your own views. It was one commentator in the paper it was not an editorial but its not news that the Guardian dislikes corbyn.

Grum is right and facts dont matter to you so this is futile

It not my narrative JY, I’m just quoting from the press who seem to have picked up on the same theme I had from the party conference. I didn’t even know he’d been at PMQ, the impression I have from Channel 4 news the discussion had been between McDonald and Osbourne. Not least due to the U-Turn from McDonald on the charter. Corbyn had said he may not participate in PMQ’s every week and I thought this was such a week. Maybe the BBC had more TV coverage. Had the OP not started the thread I would t have even noticed the Guardian commentary

Sturgeon mocks unelectable and unreliable Labour Party – today’s Guardian headline

SNP Conference

It not my narrative JY, I’m just quoting from the press

its is your narrative and you are selectively quoting from the press to support YOUR narrative- see below for everything you ignored form the press narrative to fuel your conformation bias – how you can deny this is a mystery to anyone who can read.
No offence but if you want accept that point, as polite as i can be, I have nothing further to say to you as what you say is not reliable or honest or insightful.

forgive the size of this paste but this is from the guardian coverage of PMQ to show how selective you were – the bit you are denying which is quite clearly not true

Your quote is right after all the positive/neutral/balanced stuff which clearly outweighs it but hey you are just saying what the media says 🙄

— Jason Beattie (@JBeattieMirror)
October 14, 2015
My snap verdict on who won this week’s #PMQs http://t.co/hldpxRHhCo pic.twitter.com/8tC3flWLJ4

From the Times’s Patrick Kidd

— Patrick Kidd (@patrick_kidd)
October 14, 2015
PMQs a narrow win for Corbyn. Much better attack lines than last time, landed some blows and cheered his backbenches

From Prospect’s Josh Lowe

— josh lowe (@JeyyLowe)
October 14, 2015
Can we call that a Corbyn win? Sort of, maybe, a bit. Should have mentioned Saudis and stuck harder on tax credits. But not bad #PMQs

Two people are calling it a draw.

From the Guardian’s Michael White

— MichaelWhite (@MichaelWhite)
October 14, 2015
#PMQs This week’s score. Well, no great substance or drama, but Corbyn kept his dignity & Cam was civil. So let’s call it 3 all.Can it last?

From the BBC’s Norman Smith

— norman smith (@BBCNormanS)
October 14, 2015
PMQs: The Instant Verdict…. http://t.co/QFWahxij0r

Mostly, though, people are just welcoming the contrast with the old-style, abuse-chucking PMQs.

From the New Statesman’s George Eaton

— George Eaton (@georgeeaton)
October 14, 2015
My #PMQs review: Corbyn’s best moment as leader http://t.co/RhfCtXiByq

From the Times’s Michael Savage

— Michael Savage (@michaelsavage)
October 14, 2015
It was a creditable outing from Corbyn at #PMQs, but the bottom line remains – dull and polite is fine for the PM.

From the Telegraph’s Asa Bennett

— Asa Bennett (@asabenn)
October 14, 2015
#pmqs summary: Corbyn did better, but his slow questions meant Cameron had lots of time to think of a response.

From Huffington Post’s Owen Bennett

— Owen Bennett (@owenjbennett)
October 14, 2015
I might be in the minority, but I like this new #pmqs from Corbyn. Better than watching 2 people try and out-soundbite each other #pmqs

From the Guardian’s Patrick Wintour

— Patrick Wintour (@patrickwintour)
October 14, 2015
By recounting stories of real people in poverty or struggling with housing, Corbyn dignifies PMQs, and raises the tone. It’s progress.

From ITV’s Carl Dinnen

— Carl Dinnen (@carldinnen)
October 14, 2015
Jeremy Corbyn much better at PMQs today. May yet use it to good effect. #PMQs

From Sky’s Adam Boulton

— Adam Boulton (@adamboultonSKY)
October 14, 2015
COMMENT #PMQs turning into PM’s Surgery. Reasonably questions, reasonably answered. Won’t damage either JC or DC. JC does not rise to bait.

From the Guardian’s Rafael Behr

— Rafael Behr (@rafaelbehr)
October 14, 2015
Corbyn’s new #pmqs style still a work in progress but civility + policy detail definitely have potential to get better of Cameron.

From the BBC’s Sam Macrory

— Sam Macrory (@sammacrory)
October 14, 2015
Making the PM look uncomfortable on policy & also coming up with some TV-friendly soundbites. Might Corbyn actually be quite good at #pmqs..

From the Independent’s Nigel Morris

— Nigel Morris (@NigelpMorris)
October 14, 2015
Know it’s not great theatre, but am liking this new-style #PMQS

From Newsnight’s Ian Katz

— Ian Katz (@iankatz1000)
October 14, 2015
.@jeremycorbyn channeling the “world weary headmaster with trying pupil” vibe quite effectively today #PMQs

From Mark Ferguson, the former LabourList editor

— Mark Ferguson (@Markfergusonuk)
October 14, 2015
Corbyn’s doing much better today with these questions. Far more coherent than last week, and better prepared for Cameron’s answers #pmqs

From the Specatator’s Isabel Hardman

— Isabel Hardman (@IsabelHardman)
October 14, 2015
Corbyn should have stuck with tax credits. Cameron was struggling on that #PMQs

From the Sunday Times’s Tim Shipman

— Tim Shipman (@ShippersUnbound)
October 14, 2015
Better outing from Corbyn. Tax credits a useful scab to pick at. Cameron sound on the big economics. But the Corbyn deprecation of Dave good

But not everyone likes the new PMQs

From the Telegraph’s Christopher Hope

— Christopher Hope (@christopherhope)
October 14, 2015
Has Jeremy Corbyn killed #PMQs? The laboured questions take forever and remove the pace of debate. MPs are studying Twitter on their phones.

And the Spectator’s James Forsyth has a good point to make about the new dynamics of PMQs

— James Forsyth (@JGForsyth)
October 14, 2015
One feature of this new PMQs is that Cameron takes out his pent up aggression on the SNP’s Angus Robertson when he asks his two questions

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24h ago
13:09
PMQs – Verdict

PMQs – Verdict: During the Conservative party conference, David Cameron, and other ministers, were asked repeatedly to accept that millions of low-paid workers will lose out from the tax credit cuts (or the work penalty, as Owen Jones says we should call it, in a column that Jeremy Corbyn, unlike Jess Phillips – see 11.44am – appears not to have read). Andrew Neil was probably the only broadcaster who seriously troubled his interviewees on this (though not Cameron, of course, because Number 10 is far too smart to let Cameron anywhere near Neil). Despite the fact that it is obvious that the budget giveaways won’t remotely compensate for the tax credit cuts, Cameron and others mostly managed to wriggle their way out of these interviews quite easily.

Today Jeremy Corbyn used his first three questions to have a go on the same topic himself. As in September, his tone was mature, reflective and sensible – and that made a welcome contrast with the usual, old-style PMQs. He even made the point about people like Kelly losing out massively quite forcefully.

But none of it appeared to discomfort Cameron much at all. In fact, he appeared to find the whole encounter about as unsettling as an interview on ITV’s This Morning. Corbyn used follow-up questions today, unlike in his first PMQs, when he tried six questions on six topics, but they were flaccid, and they did not really advance his case. As I have said many times before, questions at PMQs are not about eliciting answers; they are a means by which MPs articulate a political argument. A leader of the opposition needs to be able to “weaponise” them. Corbyn has not found a way of doing that, although it is not clear yet whether that is down to ineptitude, or whether that it is because overt point-scoring is part of the “old politics” that he has decided to reject.

In his final question Corbyn struck another “new politics” note when he asked about a relatively unusual non-partisan issue, secondary breast cancer. (See 12.18pm.) It is good to hear topics like this getting raised. But even this worked to Cameron’s advantage, because he explained Corbyn’s point about data collection in relation to this slightly better than Corbyn did.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/oct/14/pmqs-fiscal-charter-debate-live-debate#block-561e4649e4b0b3e1d7603568

I’ll read your epic later off to get a haircut 8)

The Tories don’t need to attack Corbyn as a combination of his own party and the SNP are going to do him in. I personally think the Scottish election in May will be as far as he gets. Supposedly SNP 30 points ahead of Labojr in Scotland. Sturgeons scathing words today.

You know, there is much that I hoped the SNP and Jeremy Corbyn could work together on.

But over these last few weeks, it has become glaringly obvious that he is unable to unite his party on any of the big issues of our day.

When he says he opposes Trident, he is attacked, not just by the Tories, but by his own shadow cabinet.

When he says he opposes the welfare cap, he is opposed, not just by Iain Duncan Smith, but by his own Shadow Justice Secretary.

A shadow justice secretary, incidentally, who is a member of the unelected House of Lords.

Labour is unreliable, unelectable and unable to stand up to the Tories.

Sturgeon is in her element – Jezza and the beanstalk is a neat distraction from scrutiny of the SNP’s actual record in power.