#TOTW Ghosts – do they exist?

Work as a scientist, and my answer is no

But, we used to live in a pretty old house, and my son, 5 ish at the time had a small childs bedroom. One evening he asked who the boy he’d seen standing in his room was

One way in which ghosts are different from man is that they can’t whistle. Try as they might, the most they can muster is a rather feeble hiss. Perhaps it’s because their lips are transparent and their tongues are see-through?

Why does no one ever see ghost ants?

Saw someone last month who did. Even showed me a clear hand vacuum he was using to suck them up. Predictably empty. The antipsychotics seem to have exorcised his house.

But, we used to live in a pretty old house, and my son, 5 ish at the time had a small childs bedroom. One evening he asked who the boy he’d seen standing in his room was

Did you explain to him how mirrors work?

Why do ghosts only haunt old houses? How old does a house have to be? Why don’t ghost stories ever start “we used to live in a new-build and…”?

My previous house was built in the 1890s. This one likewise, next door is so old that it has a blue plaque (1600s I think). The adjoining garage forming the back wall of my yard is apparently “the old abattoir”. By all rights I should be kept awake at nights by ghostly mooing and spectral cowbell.

Why do ghosts only haunt old houses? How old does a house have to be? Why don’t ghost stories ever start “we used to live in a new-build and…”?

Like ones buried on an old cemeteries.

Don’t feel the need to add to the debate. But do feel the need to share one of my favourite Most Haunted clips.

Why do ghosts only haunt old houses? How old does a house have to be? Why don’t ghost stories ever start “we used to live in a new-build and…”?

As the OP I have to tell you that our house was built in 1987 and we are the second ever occupants after the couple that bought it. They both died in this house.

This has just reminded me of a SF short story by the wonderful writer Theodore Sturgeon, an absolute master of inventive short stories. One in particular is called ‘The Haunt’, and centres around two lads setting up electronics in a rumoured haunted house, in order to crack the composure of a young lady with a famously unflappable personality. Things don’t go quite to plan. A couple more I love, ‘One Foot And The Grave’, and ‘Derm Fool’, but I encourage anyone who appreciates the short story form, combined with hugely entertaining storytelling to check him out.

As the OP I have to tell you that our house was built in 1987 and we are the second ever occupants after the couple that bought it. They both died in this house.

Oooh! I’ve seen that episode of Hammer House of Horrors. The House that Bled.

Haunted cowbell for Couger.

Yep. That’s absolutely the most plausible explanation. “I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.” Gruesome psychic footprint fo sho, makes far more sense than a half-awake dream or a trick of the light or a flatmate’s cat or someone’s mind otherwise playing silly buggers. Watertight reasoning, I’m convinced.

For whatever reason you’re choosing not to understand what I said. Yes the vast bulk of ghost stories have a perfectly rational explanation such as practical jokes or the mind playing tricks. However if there was to be such a thing as a “ghost” then what I said was that the “psychic footprint” is the only explanation that to me sounds even slightly plausible. There’s a lot about the human mind we still don’t understand. I should add that I’m very sceptical about the theory but who knows what will be discovered as science progresses.

I used to live in a haunted house and would see ghosts regularly, and my daughter, 5 years old at the time, would have back and fore conversations with whatever they were.
They would respond to specific instructions, such as if we wrre talking about a photograph then that very same photograph would move off the top of the telly, and im talki g a good 7 feet horizontally, not topple over weakly, but be propelled with force linearly 7 or 8 feet til it hit a wall or furniture.
I would see them randomly, just going about their business, and they appeared as a humanoid form but looked as if tgey were made of mirage. Think of the scene in Predator where the creature is using cloaking technology and thats more or less exactly what they looked like. They would use doorways and climb the stairs, not just walk through walls like in films. Are they dead people? I never got that impression, they just seemed to be something sharing the same space as us but somehow differently. Just my take on it, who knows?

Some other tales I have are around family members dying.
First one occured the day after my fathers death. My brother, sister, mother and me were all sitting around late at night, reminiscing about tbe old fella. My sister always had very long, thick hair which took ages under the shower to wash, much to the annoyance of my father who had to pay the electricity bill. He would moan constantly about how long she took in the shower.
Trying to cast a bit of dark humour on the situation, I pointed out that it wasnt all bad, at least my sister could take as long as she wanted in the shower now. As I said it, the electric shower upstairs started to run with hot water, we all heard it and went upstairs to investigate. Never happened before or since. Who knows?

Second tale was when I got a paniced phone call from my wife one night when I was working nights, who informed me there was a ghost in the kitchen just doing the dishes. Not really, but acting out the movements, and it was her recently departed, dearly loved Grandmother. My next door neighbours commented that their dogs and mine, who lived outside, had been upset all night and the electric lighting downstairs had been going crazy for hours, they were worried the house had a fault and was going to burn down. A mix of grief and wishful thinking? Possibly, even probably, but this does not explain the electrical phenomena, again, never happened before or since.

There are quite a few more, almost always with witnesses so I can confidently discount psychosis or dreaming in these cases.
I have no idea what is going on, dont think its the spirits of the dead at all, but I believe what I have seen with my own eyes.

My other daughter, had a ghost sighting the week before last, she saw our deceased neighbour, a lovely old lady, smiling at her through her window opposite wearing a purple dressing gown.
My wife confidently told her that it wasnt possible as she didnt die in the house. Little did she know that I asked her son when he was emptying the house what happened to the lovely old lady, a month or so previously. Had a stroke in the night and hit her head on the ceramic bath, died in the bathroom. Wearing her purple dressing gown.
Asked her attached neighbour if he had a fire as we have seen smoke , thick smoke like coal fire not just gas boiler steam, regularly coming from their shared chimney pot. He doesnt even have a fireplace he told me, and he has witnessed (heard) things moving around her house through the walls for a few months now. House has been empty all this time.

There’s a lot about the human mind we still don’t understand.

Its not the human mind though but the physical environment which can be measured. Unless you are arguing for some unknown sense we have a very good idea of what inputs the human mind can have.
I have been freaked out on a couple of occasions and yeah it could have been a ghost but rather more likely something triggered my “what is that” and since it wasnt satisfactorily answered I freaked out.
One occasion on a ww2 airfield I got freaked the hell out and had to basically run away crying. I have been there many times previously and after and there has been nowt aside from that (aside from when the wildlife trust first introduced highland cows, damn that is scary when you first see this horned thing in the morning mist) so it could have been some ghostly pilot or it could have been some bat/late roosting bird which triggered my what is that but then didnt move enough for me to identify it. At which point my senses went into overdrive with the “well it could be a really sneaky ninja!” and kept reinforcing itself with damn this ninja is sneaky since i cant see them sneaking
Its like when doing a stag duty in the night and you suddenly see a figure but after an hour or so of pointing a rifle and thinking go on make a move the light improves enough for it to be a tree.
As per previous comment I met someone who claimed sensitivity but somehow didnt notice anything living in an area which was rather unpleasant even in the known history.

Yep. That’s absolutely the most plausible explanation. “I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.” Gruesome psychic footprint fo sho, makes far more sense than a half-awake dream or a trick of the light or a flatmate’s cat or someone’s mind otherwise playing silly buggers. Watertight reasoning, I’m convinced.

No actually Cougar you’re not only wrong in your assessment, but swapping words about to make it sound like something its not is a bit unjust, perhaps even insulting.

“I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.”

First of all, He has the attic room opposite to mine, and as im running out the door he was coming up the stairs. I didnt tell him about the fireplace feeling, and only said to him when he asked me what was wrong that I felt something sat on my bed. I didnt expand beyond that.

Plus I didn’t actually know he had schizophrenia at that time, nor would i have had any inkling what exactly that was aged 17.One of the other residents in the main HQ house told me a day later. Not that it mattered because i still didnt have a clue what it was.

And I wasn’t half asleep, i was reading a book. Im not trying to convince you or anyone else, Im just recalling an incident relating to the subject matter of the thread, and quite frankly my dear, I think we both know I probably couldn’t give a rats ass for your opinion one way or the other 😉 😆

Oooh! I’ve seen that episode of Hammer House of Horrors. The House that Bled.

Ohh I remember that one – I recall blood spluttering out of bath taps? The scariest one though was Two Faces of Evil…

t would be arrogant in the extreme to say with absolute certainty that we have an absolute understanding of all there is.

Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”

People who discount stuff because we don’t know enough about it or understand it yet are just limiting themselves within the boundaries of the human. Go back 200 years and people would not even be able to imagine the sort of stuff we know about today, can develop today etc,.
Go another 200 years into the future and things that people are discounting out of hand today will be well understood and explained.

However if there was to be such a thing as a “ghost” then what I said was that the “psychic footprint” is the only explanation that to me sounds even slightly plausible. There’s a lot about the human mind we still don’t understand. I should add that I’m very sceptical about the theory but who knows what will be discovered as science progresses.

So you’re basically describing a thought experiment? These things don’t exist, but if they did it must be because of something else that doesn’t exist.

No actually Cougar you’re not only wrong in your assessment, but swapping words about to make it sound like something its not is a bit unjust, perhaps even insulting.

Point is, your story as presented likely has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is. Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.

Point is, your story as presented likely has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is. Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.

Just up ?. slug-a-bed.

Not really mate, I did say in my earlier post that i thought these occurrences were more to do with residual energy rather than ghosts, in the classic term.

You really are being the aggressive cynic in this thread Cougar. Not just a matter of hmm, odd, not sure. Its a case of you’re demanding these instances people have experienced did not happen. And that in no way could ever mean theres such a thing as a psychic experience.

Sure, it could be explained away as something to do with our own minds and how they work, though these things have been examined for centuries and nobody as yet has come up with any sort of answer beyond attempting to shout it down.

has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is.

Just can’t help yourself can you. Always need to get some sort of dig in 🙄

My view is that we are elctro-chemical cell bags whose conciousness is down to said electro-chemical processes. When electro-chemical processes stop (death) conciousness ends.

Other views obviously exist.

Current neuroscience hypotheses are pointing to the brain being a prediction engine – Cambridge Summary from link – “Why is a child so much better at catching a moving ball than the most advanced robot? Why do we find unexpected or ambiguous language amusing? How are we so good at attending to the world around us, and yet fall for visual illusions and magic? Latest neuroscience research suggests that this is because the human brain is organised as a pyramid of neural processes that generate successively complex predictions about the future. In recent research from the CBU, led by Srivas Chennu, by measuring the brain’s electrical activity, we show that the information from our senses flowing through this predictive hierarchy is fundamentally altered by what we expect to perceive and what we attend to. Our findings argue that cognition, and ultimately our consciousness, is continually shaped not just by the external world, but also by our internal biases and past experience.”

Or Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality

In short, if you don’t believe in ghosts and fall on the ‘we just die’ side of belief your personal prediction engine will never determine that ghost are a likely explanation for anything.

If you are bit more spiritual and aren’t so sure about the nature of existence, or are in a dark place, or you are a teenager and your brain is all over the shop anyway, or somebody has primed you (funny how the OP knows about the deaths in their house) then your prediction engine may well conclude that there is something dodgy going on.

Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.

People do it all the time though, obviously.

I’ve posted about this before… there was a post on Stargazers Lounge a few years ago. Somebody reported seeing a very fast moving, bright object in the night sky at a particular time. Not a plane or helicopter, too fast for a satellite, etc. The poster gave the direction of movement and time, and concluded that it must have been a UFO because he’d ruled out everything else.

Within 5 minutes, the first reply was that it was the ISS, with a link to a website detailing times. etc. With just a tiny amount of research, this person could have found the actual explanation for his observation. (And found out who was on board, what they were doing, what they had for lunch, checked for any webcams, etc…)

But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.

Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”

But this is flawed because you’re assuming that both standpoints have equal weight. Can I say “no” with 100% certainty regarding the existence of ghosts / UFOs / unicorns / god / Nessie / Russell’s Teapot / the tooth fairy etc etc? Of course not. But I can say “no” beyond reasonable doubt.

People who discount stuff because we don’t know enough about it or understand it yet are just limiting themselves within the boundaries of the human.

Agreed, but I refer you again to the quote I posted. This doesn’t mean we get to just make stuff up.

This argument again is flawed because the universe doesn’t require our understanding. No-one of a scientific bent ever said “we don’t understand that so it can’t be possible.”

Take homeopathy. Homeopaths may argue that just because we don’t understand how it works doesn’t mean we can dismiss it. And as far as it goes this is absolutely true. But what we can do is test their claims. Which is what we’ve done, many times, and demonstrated that its efficacy is akin to any other placebo treatment. At which point, proving “how it works” is simply begging the question and we’re back to your man with his psychic footprints again.

It’s good to have an open mind. But without a filter it’s just an open drain that lets any old shit in.

You really are being the aggressive cynic in this thread Cougar.

For what it’s worth, I’m not just being a hard-nosed cynic. Sceptic, certainly. I’m not just dismissing it offhand, I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine, I think it’s fascinating. I’ve read all about UFOs, Kirlian photography, spontaneous human combustion, fairies at the bottom of the garden, ESP, and many other phenomenon including, yes, ghosts. Some of it still remains a mystery, but the vast bulk does not.

We have found atoms. We have found subatomic particles. We have found distant galaxies. We have, as yet, not found the slightest bit of credible evidence to suggest that there is any such things as ghosts beyond the caption on Fox Mulder’s famous UFO poster.

Its a case of you’re demanding these instances people have experienced did not happen.

I’m not demanding anything. I’m sure it was very real to them. Still doesn’t mean Ghosts.

And that in no way could ever mean theres such a thing as a psychic experience.

Because there isn’t. Years and years of study has turned up precisely nothing other than hoaxes and fairy stories. Prove me / them wrong, you’ll be very rich.

Just can’t help yourself can you. Always need to get some sort of dig in

I can’t see why you think that’s a dig. For the avoidance of any doubt, it wasn’t intended as such.

You seem to be taking my posts personally. Please don’t, I can assure you that I’m an equal opportunities sociopath and wish you no ill will.

But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.

But he did see a UFO as he couldn’t identify it. Then it was identified as the ISS so it became a IFO 😉

I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine

😀 😀

But this is flawed because you’re assuming that both standpoints have equal weight. Can I say “no” with 100% certainty regarding the existence of ghosts / UFOs / unicorns / god / Nessie / Russell’s Teapot / the tooth fairy etc etc? Of course not. But I can say “no” beyond reasonable doubt.

I am not assuming equal weight at all but a No is a No. You also cannot say no beyond reasonable doubt as that is just your reasonable doubt which again is limited by your own understandings of what a human knows.
To me it is just a lack of imagination. For example, of course there will be life of some sort somewhere else in the universe but it may not ever be found by the technologies humans have. We may, say, test for water as all life has to come from that but that is just limiting it with what we think we know. Any testing/searching is immediately hamstrung by the narrow minds and boundaries of the people involved.

I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine

My wife used to be a designer for them 🙂

You seem to be taking my posts personally. Please don’t, I can assure you that I’m an equal opportunities sociopath and wish you no ill will.

Thats good to hear. Again.

I’ll take it your use of the word ‘pedestrian’ was implied as a noun and not an adjective .

.

Everyone has the right to be skeptical. Not faulting anyone for that.

Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”

And exactly the same statement applies to werewolves, pixies, invisible Tetley tea men dancing on your kitchen table or anything else you might want to imagine.

I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine

😀 😀

To be clear, what I meant was,

When I was younger, I was fascinated with it all. Then when I was a little older I ‘did my research,’ at libraries and then later with the web. I’m not holding up The Unexplained as a bastion of proof but rather as an example that my point of entry was always “how does that work?” rather than just ignorant / cynical dismissal. Today I’m sceptical but it’s a position I’ve arrived at rather than started from.

I’ll take it your use of the word ‘pedestrian’ was implied as a noun and not an adjective .

I meant “less supernatural” and was reaching for the correct word. Mundane? Practical? It’s on the tip of my brain.

To be clear, what I meant was…….,

Yeah, was obvious. But funny at the same time. 😉

I am not assuming equal weight at all but a No is a No. You also cannot say no beyond reasonable doubt as that is just your reasonable doubt which again is limited by your own understandings of what a human knows.

Sure I can. I mentioned it earlier, see Russell’s Teapot. I cannot state with absolute certainty that there isn’t (say) a cheese and ham toastie in orbit around Jupiter. I can however state beyond reasonable doubt that there isn’t.

To me it is just a lack of imagination.

We can all likely imagine plenty of things. Right now I’m imagining Eliza Dushku lying in my bed, lightly oiled. I cannot say with 100% certainty that she isn’t there, but I believe beyond reasonable doubt that were I to pop into the next room and check I would be sadly disappointed.

Just because we can imagine something doesn’t automatically grant it credibility, you have to balance imagination with reason. If I’d had an email at the weekend from Ms D saying she’d be round on Wednesday, that would change the odds a little.

But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.

A while back I was coming back in from a ride at dusk and saw some weird stuff in the distance. Looked like fireworks but they were looping round each other in a way which would be impossible for normal fireworks.
Once I got home started googling and there just happened to be a fireworks “competition” (aka display) going on at the local stately home and part of it included drones. Problem solved even if less exciting than aliens.

I used to live in an old mansion House in Aberdeenshire. It was split into four apartments – one on each floor- plus a cottage on the end. I lived on the top floor.

The ground floor neighbour worked offshore. Month on, month off. He told me the place was haunted when I moved in. I found that interesting but not spooky.

Anyway, the first week after we’d moved in, we heard someone walking around in the flat below. All night. It sounded like big, hobnail boots on a wooden floor. The two middle floors were holiday homes and I was able to ascertain from both owners that nobody was in occupancy at the time. The ground floor neighbour was offshore. We heard the “ghost” many times over the years. Just walking around in the night.

The ground floor was different. They had two sightings. A dark figure wearing a hood. One was in a bedroom where a female guest was staying. It suddenly felt freezing cold in the room and she looked up to see the figure standing over the bed. The other was my neighbour sitting on the sofa with the log burner blazing but, again, it suddenly felt freezing cold and he saw the hooded figure sitting at the other end of the sofa. (He was drunk at the time though)

The house had burnt down and been rebuilt in the late 19th century and a young girl had died in the fire. The neighbours in the end cottage apparently saw an apparition of a young girl in a nightdress on the stairs a few times.

Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”

When I say “no”, it’s shorthand for “I can’t prove a negative, but their existence is vanishingly unlikely so I choose to live my life on the basis that they don’t exist. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so it’s up to the claimants to prove their existence, not me to prove they’re wrong.”

How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?

How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?

Because when people think of ghosts they automatically think of fictional ghosts, and spooky tales told about stately homes to draw in the tourists, etc. There have been plenty of stories shared on this thread that are not Victorian, MR James style stories. (Whether you choose to believe them or not is another point..)

the sofa with the log burner blazing but, again, it suddenly felt freezing cold and he saw the hooded figure sitting at the other end of the sofa.

I experience that all too often, it’s my eldest leaving the living room door open and sitting down in her Ooodie.

Ghost believer? Not really definite either way but I like a good ghost story. Weird stuff has happened to me over the years I can’t explain no matter how much logic I throw at it.

But here’s the thing. Right or wrong, I guess we’re all going to find out at some point.