Get your dancing on grave boots ready

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

I remember when the Conservatives came to power and the whole country was in the shit, literally!

The standard of living, generally, rose considerably during that period and the UK slowly rebuilt its reputation worldwide from that of a Country in which no-one in their right mind would invest. The demise of the coal mining and other industry was a disaster in many ways (not all) but to blame Thatcher entirely for this is ignoring the emergence of other (cheaper) manufacturing bases in the Third World and the rapidly changing face of international commerce. It was inevitable and to maintain a competitive industrial base would have necessitated the employment of even cheaper exploited labour, surely exactly the thing which The Unions were attempting to obviate.

There were other important ‘players’ in this era and to fail to mention the part played by them eg.Heseltine and Scargill and many others in positions of influence during that period and place the blame solely at the feet of one person is ludicrous.

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

I remember when the Conservatives came to power and the whole country was in the shit, literally!

The standard of living, generally, rose considerably during that period and the UK slowly rebuilt its reputation worldwide from that of a Country in which no-one in their right mind would invest. The demise of the coal mining and other industry was a disaster in many ways (not all) but to blame Thatcher entirely for this is ignoring the emergence of other (cheaper) manufacturing bases in the Third World and the rapidly changing face of international commerce. It was inevitable and to maintain a competitive industrial base would have necessitated the employment of even cheaper exploited labour, surely exactly the thing which The Unions were attempting to obviate.

There were other important ‘players’ in this era and to fail to mention the part played by them eg.Heseltine and Scargill and many others in positions of influence during that period and place the blame solely at the feet of one person is ludicrous.

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

I remember when the Conservatives came to power and the whole country was in the shit, literally!

The standard of living, generally, rose considerably during that period and the UK slowly rebuilt its reputation worldwide from that of a Country in which no-one in their right mind would invest. The demise of the coal mining and other industry was a disaster in many ways (not all) but to blame Thatcher entirely for this is ignoring the emergence of other (cheaper) manufacturing bases in the Third World and the rapidly changing face of international commerce. It was inevitable and to maintain a competitive industrial base would have necessitated the employment of even cheaper exploited labour, surely exactly the thing which The Unions were attempting to obviate.

There were other important ‘players’ in this era and to fail to mention the part played by them eg.Heseltine and Scargill and many others in positions of influence during that period and place the blame solely at the feet of one person is ludicrous.

If Thatcher and the Tories were so bad how did they remain in power till 1997?

Isn’t it the electorate that decides how bad the government is, or was it a case that the unemployed weren’t allowed to vote?

Bah, this thread is tailing off 🙁

In Birmingham they are adjusting binmens salaries as some of them are on 25-30k a year. So if they strike, good **** off and get a better-paid job then.

(Source, relative in the council). Shes had her salary adjusted due to female/male divide….adjusted DOWN.

I’ve gradually hated her less over the last 10 years, to the point where, no, I don’t wish her ill, and feel a certain amount of compassion for her as a frail old lady. Listening to the tories cheering welfare cuts yesterday brought it all flooding back to me though. Compassionate conservatives my arse.

Bah, this thread is tailing off

surf-mat to the thread please!

I think everyone has hated to the point of exhaustion. Some pretty shameful comments throughout by some members – let’s hope none of them lose a family member any time soon ehh?

Woody – what a strange memory you have.

Your standard of living onluy rose significantly if you were one of her favoured ones – favoured with huge tax cuts. It did not rise for the many millions who lost their jobs.

Standard of living also rose slower than in many other countries.

And we had the north sea oil money that other countries did not – other countries who didnt suffer the thathcer recessions ( plural) to anything like the same extent

So – with all that extra money from the north sea the UK still performed far worse than other countries

She was a complete disaster for the country and did damage it will never recover from

And yes – it is her fault – she did not believe in cabinet government and the government was moulded in her image.

Why did they keep winning. Multiple reasons. Patriotic fervour after the Falklands, divided opposition, the vagaries of our electoral system and a damn good propaganda machine

aren’t you being a tad over-sensitive M-F..? or at best a wee bit pious..? Is she your grandmother..?

I’ve never really given the old boot much thought.. I’m too young to have noticed her influence to any great degree and politics generally doesn’t really effect my life in any meaningful way..

But if there’s a party when the old hag finally gets dragged back to hell.. I’ll be there with bells on..

T-J – seconded.
Yes, the reason that she was re-elected was the patriotic madness after the Falklands, a was that her own neglect of diplomacy and aspects of defence allowed to happen.

I can’t see why Brown has been castigated for selling off gold cheaply when all our governments have also been keen to sell off N.Sea oil at low prices -it’s now 10 times what it was in Mrs T’s day.

Seems like graciousness and dignity eludes these socialists!

Wishing someone dead is pure miserable nasty hatred. Shame on the OP and it’s supporters! (the description “it” is befitting of such low life).

This is a classic case of people showing their true colours!

This attitude is totally contradictory to the values of socialism and is indicative of the control freak tendencies of your typical lefty!

I wouldn’t wish death on my worst enemy, let alone a politician.

Sad feckers!

I’m no lefty, in the political sense. What this thread shows is the well documented polarisation of views regarding Thatcher and her Government.

Whether her legacy is judged as good or bad will depend on political persuasion (amongst other things) and will never be agreed upon.

What will be agreed upon is that both Thatcher and what she did was incredibly divisive for this Country.

If you draw an angled line between Bristol and the Wash you divide the country into two halves with roughly 27 million people on each side. Between 1980 and 1985, in the southern half they lost 103,600 jobs. In the northern half in the same period they lost 1,032,000 jobs, almost exactly ten times as many.

From Bill Brysons Notes from a Small Island. Hence the ill will…

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

Blair was (rightly) criticised for his presidential style of Government that by-passed Parliament and to an extent, Cabinet.

But, if you remember those times Woody, you must surely remember the constant cabinet re-shuffles as Thatcher removed anyone who disagreed or showed weakness. As someone posted above, the Conservative “whets” were systematically removed and replaced by “Yes Men”. She pioneered “elected dictatorship”

a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

an oligarchy, a faux “elected” body who collectively attribute all responsibly of blame to their predecessors whilst running the country into the ground and feathering their own nests.

there, fixed it for you.

oh we don’t have enough seats? well lets just change the system so we do! (beautifully taken to its next illogical step by GB who was PM even though never elected!)

Woody – what a strange memory you have.

Almost as strange as my laptop multi-posting but it is my memory of the situation and what I observed while living in Scotland and London during her terms. I was very much in a lower income bracket at the time BTW 😉

You can post all the ‘data’ you like TJ and I am not for one second saying that what she did was always right or even decent (for want of a better word) but to blame her and all aspects of her government as being largely responsible for all of problems in this Country today is also plainly ridiculous.

Listening to the tories cheering welfare cuts yesterday

Missed that as I was out for most of the day. What particular aspect were they cheering?

So as I’m not approaching senility it appears my views are worthless.
However my views are formed partly from my experiences as a child but more from the experiences of my parents, so I asked their view…

The first thing they said is –

‘Who of them have worked in the public sector through out their careers? Which of them have dug into their own pockets during the Thatcher years to ensure that other people’s kids had books to write in and pen’s to write with?’

aren’t you being a tad over-sensitive M-F..? or at best a wee bit pious..? Is she your grandmother..?

Losing a family myself recently perhaps does make me more sensitive but to wish death and joke about dancing on graves just seems a bit immature and doesn’t reflect what I always imagined the majority of people on here would be like.

Not like her – fair enough

Hate what she did and stood for – fair enough

Toast her death and joke about dancing on graves – distasteful

(IMO of course).

Do you see her as part of your family m_f? 😕

Do you see her as part of your family m_f?

No. Why?

dancing on graves just seems a bit immature and doesn’t reflect what I always imagined the majority of people on here would be like.

oh..

..racist

Fair enough TSW

Bit I also remember kids running around the street with no shoes and my workmate telling me about his Dad buying horse meat from the butcher in Sunderland ……..all during Labour eras and not so very long ago, so go figure !

has margaret ever written a autobiography?

if so, has anyone got one i can borrow.

Woody, just out of interest… is that in the last 15 years or the 70’s?

I’m not trying to provoke an argument, instead hope to learn from you and others on here.

You can post all the ‘data’ you like TJ and I am not for one second saying that what she did was always right or even decent (for want of a better word) but to blame her and all aspects of her government as being largely responsible for all of problems in this Country today is also plainly ridiculous.

WHy dont you try and post some data to support you view of the Iron lady as some some sort of collective responsibility cabinet parliamentarian
She suspended the cabinet and used a smaller war cabinet during the Falklands conflict, removing Unions from GCHQ was taken without full cabinet approval , removal of whets etc. It did not even meet every week- Labour were no better.
Perhpas you can cite numerous examples of a ministers overruling Thatcher or her bowing to their collective will rather than them to hers.
Even you call it her governement in your post – says it all really.

and my workmate telling me about his Dad buying horse meat from the butcher in Sunderland

there’s a boucheries chevalines in Sunderland?!? how bourgeois!

Woody – Its very clear and obvious. The deliberate creation of a large pool of unemployed has done serious damage to the social fabric of the country. Anyone who says different walks around with their eyes shut

The deliberate starving of public services of funds nearly destroyed those services. They have mainly recovered under labour

When we with north sea oil money did so much worse than other european nations without that massive bounty then yes – she is to blame.

there’s a boucheries chevalines in Sunderland

Swindon can only dream…..

there’s a boucheries chevalines in Sunderland?!? how bourgeois!

Probably unemployed pit ponies

ton – Member

has margaret ever written a autobiography?

if so, has anyone got one i can borrow.

borrow? Do you mean burn ton?

😉

hey, don’t knock it, cattle mutilation brings in more tourists than crop circles nowadays!

WHy dont you try and post some data to support you view of the Iron lady as some some sort of collective responsibility cabinet parliamentarian
She suspended the cabinet and used a smaller war cabinet during the Falklands conflict, removing Unions from GCHQ was taken without full cabinet approval , removal of whets etc. It did not even meet every week- Labour were no better.
Perhpas you can cite numerous examples of a ministers overruling Thatcher or her bowing to their collective will rather than them to hers.
Even you call it her governement in your post – says it all really.

No need to look for data – there is video evidence of Thatchers Cabinet Government…

Toast her death and joke about dancing on graves – distasteful

Were it anyone other that her I would agree with you.

hey, don’t knock it, cattle mutilation brings in more tourists than crop circles nowadays!

I thought that was the other celebrated new town, Milton Keynes, party trick?

I cant see the link at work what is is it please anyone

Yoss – you called?

The deliberate starving of public services of funds nearly destroyed those services. They have mainly recovered under labour

Oh yes but now we are billions of pounds in debt and suffering hugely for it. Labour spent money we didn’t have. They seemed to forget the very simple sum – money in = money out. How any government can spend so much more than it’s income baffles me. Things might have seemed good under lie-bour but it was all artificially propped up by massive debts.

I suggest you avoid a career as an accountant TJ. A career as a rose tinter for an optician might be for you.

then yes – she is to blame.

Ok, if you say so TJ, then it must be right, although your denial of other factors and your devotion to the recent conservative New Labour government does seem to smack of the very blinkered reasoning you so readily accuse others of. <cue yet more ‘indisputable’ facts and figures re unemployment, growth, NHS funding as a % of GDP etc. etc. yawn>

Quite a remarkable woman in any case, whichever way you look at it, to have achieved all that singlehandedly in a democratic country !

Surf matt – indeed but we still spend less on our public services than Germany, Italy, France, the Netherlands, Norway etc etc

The answer – higher taxation. Fairer taxation. We remain low tax low spend

Remember one of thatchers first steps was massive tax cuts for the rich.

I have no devotion to the recent new labour government.