A Summer of Cricket – SPOILERS

Can we get back to slating the Aussies please?

Of course! The pleasing thing for me, is whilst England have been below par, we’re still far too good for the Aussies. Heaven help them if the top six start firing!

The bowling averages (and total number of wickets) of the players I listed were considerably better than Jimmy’s.

6 wickets is “considerably”? Unless he breaks down sometime soon Jimmy will certainly finish with more wickets than Donald and most likely Waqar at least. Meanwhile I thought it was generally acknowledged that he has greatly improved from his early years and that his overall average suffers compared to those who started off playing at their best. I also thought we’d agreed that wickets and average didn’t tell the whole story.

You then went on to tangle yourself up with stats about England players from 50 years ago. Why you persist with not responding to what is written, I’ve no idea, but it precludes sensible discussion. A pity.

No tangling involved. We were talking about the English test team, so by logical extension, I took your comment to mean English players. Cook, KP, Anderson and swanny are amongst, if not in some cases, the best players England has ever fielded, including those who played 15-20 years ago.

Then, for whatever reason, you resorted to condescension instead of merely clarifying what it is now apparent you actually meant. Wind your neck in a little and you might get more civil responses from others. See also the Concorde thread.

6 wickets is “considerably”? Unless he breaks down sometime soon Jimmy will certainly finish with more wickets than Donald and most likely Waqar at least. Meanwhile I thought it was generally acknowledged that he has greatly improved from his early years and that his overall average suffers compared to those who started off playing at their best. I also thought we’d agreed that wickets and average didn’t tell the whole story.

He may well do. As I said, I think he’s a very good player, but hasn’t in my book quite done enough yet to be one of the greats.

No tangling involved. We were talking about the English test team, so by logical extension, I took your comment to mean English players. Cook, KP, Anderson and swanny are amongst, if not in some cases, the best players England has ever fielded, including those who played 15-20 years ago.

Given there were few if any great players playing for England 15-20 years ago, it was pretty obvious I was talking about world cricket. If you thought I was talking about English players from that period, why did you refer to players from a much earlier time?

Then, for whatever reason, you resorted to condescension instead of merely clarifying what it is now apparent you actually meant. Wind your neck in a little and you might get more civil responses from others. See also the Concorde thread.

You tried to assert something with the selective use of statistics. I pulled you up on it, and you chose to get huffy. Rather like the Concorde thread.

The greats would have been great in any era. Times and conditions have changed which make comparison hard, but a batsman that scored runs in the past on uncovered pitches would also have got them today. Bowlers that benefited from those conditions would have changed their games to suit – eg: I’m not old enough to have seen Underwood but my dad and uncle both did and are convinced with his accuracy and control, if he bowled in today’s game he’d bowl a different line and get more drs’ed lbw’s than he did back in the day. Tendulkar may have benefitted from 3lb bats and fast outfields but watch the way his feet and hands moved – with that talent he might have played differently in the 50’s, but he’d still have been world class. Warne is simply the best of all time and would have been in any era.

Here’s the controversial one. I’m not sure about the Don. Body line was designed to play on his weakness against the short ball, which wasn’t (really) a valid tactic back then. He might well have adapted had he been forced to, and yes he’d have benefited from helmets and armguards and….. But for all that, he never really had to face an attack as fierce as the windies of the 80’s, Lillee and Thommo, even Wasim, Waqar, Flintoff, Harmison, Curtley and Courtney, etc. And given the improvements in athleticism / fitness in all sports over the years, i dont doubt that while the quicks, Lindwall, Trueman, etc., would always have been quick, they were the exception, and sustained 90mph bowling from both ends for long periods was not common.

I’d pay well to see it though……

Here’s the controversial one. I’m not sure about the Don.

The thing is, you could reduce his average by 1/3 and he’d still be top of the list! He was still well over 50 in the bodyline series…

They do say Larwood was ferociously quick but I’m not sure who else there was in that era.

Edited to add: a really good article on this very issue: http://m.cricketcountry.com/cricket-articles/full-article/Busting-myths-about-the-Bradman-Era:-The-Don%27s-average-on-sticky-wickets-was-20-29/19492

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned already but the ‘Hawkeye’ prediction is actually a cone (or triangle) of predicted path of which only the central path is shown. So on each predicted line they show you on the TV you can/should allow a little more either side as it’s all only theoretical.

You tried to assert something with the selective use of statistics. I pulled you up on it, and you chose to get huffy. Rather like the Concorde thread.

Which is, as aracer pointed out, exactly what you are doing. Fact: KP, cook, Anderson and swann stand amongst the English greats. Any interpretation of the statistics shows that, unless you take a very blinkered, skewed view.

Oh, and you should revisit the Concorde thread after your mini-flounce, you might learn something.

My kid told me this ………

What do you call an Aussie who can handle a bat?

A Vet!

Pmsl.

Comparing between generations is impossible given all the changes in the game.

This is unfortunate – Brezza’s out for the remainder of the season with a stress fracture in is back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23720676

Bresnan’s injury is a shame. I think he’s done really well! wickets, economical and runs when batting.
I’d like to see Tremlett come in for him at the Oval if only to see what he’s got after his injuries.

Agree. We’ll miss his runs too (hopes to be proved wrong as cook and trott get the tons that ability suggests they should by the law of averages). Give Tremlett a go.

Fact: KP, cook, Anderson and swann stand amongst the English greats. Any interpretation of the statistics shows that, unless you take a very blinkered, skewed view.

I haven’t argued otherwise. Unfortunately this doesn’t address your mistakes:

1. I was talking about the great players in world cricket of 15-20 years ago. You responded by talking about English players of 50+ years ago.

2. Only a very selective use of statistics would make them better players than some of those you cited, for example Trueman and Hammond.

Oh, and I think the Concorde and other thread bear adequate witness to the fact that I am much better informed than you on a very wide range of subjects. 😉

Oh, and I think the Concorde and other thread bear adequate witness to the fact that I am much better informed than you on a very wide range of subjects.

You can add delusional, boring and childish to your list of things you’re better than me at too.

Anything relevant you’d like to add to this discussion? A few of us had started talking about the fact that one of the key players from the last test is unfortunately out injured. Or would you just like to carry on losing in a tedious point scoring game that I’m sure just about everyone is fed up of reading.

Back under your bridge, please.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23778598

More sour grapes? Is he for real or is this a wind up? Frankly; I’ve played in a few semi-decent sports teams in my time and the one thing i know is that you stand shoulder to shoulder with your team mates when times are hard. Broad doesn’t strike me as someone who is likely to crumple if some nasty australian calls him a bad name anyway, but this is playing into England’s hands isn’t it.

I would think Broad would use it to fire himself up to make them pay for it where it’ll really hurt, and likewise the rest of the team – you need a bit of siege mentality for a long tour away and this is perfect for creating it.

Broad to take another hatful this test. 4-0

Looks like Woakes in for Bairstow

Kerrigan for Bresnan? Does that mean no Tremlett? Shame if its the case.

Very silly comments from Lehmann, Broad is going to be furiously fire up now. Is he trying to make Malfoy bowl even faster? Thanks pal 😀

aussies to bat

I reckon Broad may well open the bowling!!

And I hope he cries and goes home. I don’t advocate walking, but when you hit it to first slip it’s pretty hard

so there you go he did what he would have done and what he would have expected an Ozzie.
I think we should send Monty as his guard for nights out 😉

I cannot see Broad crumbling tbh and when they target you like this you know you have got under their skin and they have taken the eye off the ball.

I also agree with the cat that it is better for the coach that they discuss the cheat Broad than the dismissal team they put out. It was not crickets finest moment though.

Woakes and kerrigan in for england and surprisingly the Aussies have shuffled the pack again

I’m sure it will be water off a ducks back when Broad cops some flak in Australia from fans. I’m guessing that it certainly won’t be as bad as the stick given to England players at times in the last 40 years!

I wish people would stop saying he edged it to slip when he blatantly didn’t.

Also, the argument seems to be that cheating is ok when you think you’re more likely to get away with it. 😕

Wow, just wow.

That Lehmann whinge is the best whinge yet

“What’s that Skip? You’re crying in a ball of self pity? Why’s that, Skip?”

“Blowers, my dear old thing”

😀

Having read the full Lehman piece now.

‘I don’t advocate walking’

‘Broad is a blatant cheat’

Cheating in respect of walking or not walking is like being pregnant; you can’t be ‘a bit pregnant’. If you know you hit it it doesn’t matter if it went to the keeper or third man; if you don’t walk you’re a cheat* So by his very assertion that he doesn’t advocate walking he’s a cheat too?

* I disagree with this too actually, it’s up to the umpire to decide and you accept that, rough or smooth. But read back in the thread for my view on that.

Tuffers suggests that to make Broad go home from Oz crying, they’ll have to trap his finger in the door 😆

warner gone 🙂

Anderson’s rogered him 😀

Go home and sell some socks, punchy bogan

he’s looked hopeless this morning

what odds on Watson lbw, it’s swinging enough 🙂

what odds on Watson lbw, it’s swinging enough

The bookies have stopped taking bets!

Anderson now equal with Willis in the England rankings

aussies look nervous, none of the usual belligerence.

well a nice slow start, anyone with tickets for day 5?

Clarke seemed keen to distance himself from lehmann’s remarks as well. ‘Relationships between the sides are fine’ and ‘you’ll have to ask the coach about that’ suggest that they might not be particularly united behind the door marked Visitors

Anderson is making the ball talk here 🙂

verbals between watson and anderson.

Probably giving him tips on how to bat

Anyone else grow up watching Terry Alderman, Merv ‘the tache’ Hughes, Allan Border, Steve and Mark Waugh… and wonder what the hell happened?

No, thankfully 😀

Terry Alderman vs. Gooch was a terrifying experience, sonny. 😉