F1 2020 (spoilers abound)

The fault lay entirely with the drivers at the back.

Entirely?

How about Bottas backing up the pack to a ludicrous extent and race control for allowing him to do it legally?

If you have a rule that allows one person to gain an advantage at a risk to everyone else then you can’t blame them.

The safety car line should have been at the start of one of the shorter straights with another run off for the safety car to get out of the way.

So Domenicali, Todt, and Brawn running things. First reaction was Ferrari International Assistance, then I looked up the championship standings and realized that this cunning plan might not be going to plan.

You know how if you run into the back of someone it’s your fault? Well, that.

Domenicali didn’t exactly leave Ferrari on good terms. He was essentially ousted for kicking up a fuss about Ferrari prioritising Italian staff at the expense of skilled staff. He also directly opposed the transfer of road car personnel to the Ferrari F1 team as he said they’re incompatible.

Domenicali is a good fit, he has petrol for blood and knows this sport is about people as much as machines and money.

then I looked up the championship standings and realized that this cunning plan might not be going to plan.

Surprise! the FIA have decided to reverse the World Championship standings for the last race of the season!

You know how if you run into the back of someone it’s your fault? Well, that.

Generally, but there are exceptions: i) A racetrack isn’t a public road so you don’t expect cars to stop suddenly and following a few inches off someone’s gearbox is normal. ii) On a public road, if the car in front of you runs into a stationary car and you were following at a safe distance, and then you plough into that unexpected blockage, it’s not the same as rear-ending someone who stopped at traffic light.

The problem, as I understand it, is that the guys in front accelerated in anticipation of Bottas nailing it, but misjudged it, then they suddenly backed off. The guys behind were driving blind and trusting the guys in front only to have to slam on the brakes.

How about Bottas backing up the pack to a ludicrous extent and race control for allowing him to do it legally?

Bottas held steady. Seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do

Entirely?

How about Bottas backing up the pack to a ludicrous extent and race control for allowing him to do it legally? If you have a rule that allows one person to gain an advantage at a risk to everyone else then you can’t blame them.

You could argue that Mugello as a circuit has to take some blame, in that the start/finish line is at the very end of quite a long straight so the effect of the lead car bunching the pack is exaggerated, but this was spoken about at the drivers briefing, and presumably they’d just watched the F3 race go through the exact same thing…(a mid race re-start) . hols2 has nailed it really; the guys at the back guessed wrongly, realised their error, and backed off.

Did someone send Mercedes a different set of rules to the rest of the grid? 1 second clear again and Red Bull 1.5s off the pace.

By this stage of relatively static regulations the front of the grid is tightening not widening.

Six Ferrari-engined cars in last seven positions in Q1. Says it all…

— Gary Anderson (@GaryAndersonF1) September 26, 2020

Can’t see this ending well.

FIA communication: “For duration of Podium Ceremony and Post Race Interview Procedure, the Drivers finishing in race in positions 1, 2, 3 must remain attired only in their Driving Suits, done up to the neck, not opened to the waist. Includes a Medical or Team Branded Face Mask”

— Andrew Benson (@andrewbensonf1) September 27, 2020

Did someone send Mercedes a different set of rules to the rest of the grid? 1 second clear again and Red Bull 1.5s off the pace.

By this stage of relatively static regulations the front of the grid is tightening not widening.

I think it’s an unintended consequence of the ‘Single Engine Mode’ rule. Merc may not have the Party Mode anymore but their engine is so far ahead of the others in terms of how hard they can run it anyway that their constant life option is miles above everyone else. On full beans they may have had 30bhp more than the others but due to their engine being able to run at that higher output for x amount of time they can run at eg 950bhp all day long where as everyone else is stuck at 900bhp therefore their advantage has actually gone up! It’s similar to the old Turbo days where BMW could get 1500bhp for a qualy lap but were down to 700bhp for a race where the TAG unit was ‘only 1100bhp for qualy but could run at 800bhp for a whole race (figures from old books and magazines so might be out slightly but you get the jist).

Big ol’ shunt in F2 at turn 3, all ok, makes you wince to watch though…

Can’t see this ending well.

No, and the result conversation will be for the other thread but that’s the equivalent of putting tape of Hamilton’s mouth on the BML issue.  Is censorship with no flexibility plain and simple.

It’s going to be an interesting day.  Hamilton is now on an opposing strategy with not the best tyre and punching a big hole on a long straight for Verstappen and Bottas.  His best hope is he comes out the first corner in second and the mid field causes a safety car so he can dive in and get some mediums pdq I suspect.

Felt sorry for Lewis yesterday but he knows he drove a blinder to get pole, he was on softer tyres but in a dodgy position back in the pack..
Make things a bit more interesting today at the start at least. I wonder of the pressure of potentially equalling Schumacher’s record is getting to him?

I think Hamilton is probably quite relaxed because he knows he can cruise to the championship and Schumacher’s record is just a matter of time. Bottas and Verstappen are fighting for second in the championship, and both will be desperate to win some races. Very good chance of top runners trying alternate strategies, with Ricciardo and the McLarens hoping to sneak onto the podium if someone has problems or gets strategy wrong.

the mid field causes a safety car

5 out of 6 Russian GsP have had safety cars so fingers crossed it happens early enough.

Kimi matches Reubens 322 GP’s today, that is one hell of a milestone.

Safety Car after 1st Lap great news for Hamilton and I really think Verstappen needs to practice his starts.

2 x 5 sec penalty for LH for practice starts let the moaning commence

More entertained by him having 10 points total on his license. 2 more and misses a race.

2 more and misses a race.

Would love to see George Russell given a turn in that Merc.

Seems a shame that Lewis was given the points on his license when he clearly asked the team if it was okay to do so and they said yes. Lewis already paid the price in the time penalties, a team fine would have been more appropriate.

Seems a shame that Lewis was given the points on his license when he clearly asked the team if it was okay to do so and they said yes

Not at all unfair, it’s his job to know the rules too

Points rescinded:

British Broadcorping Castration

mashr
Full Member
Seems a shame that Lewis was given the points on his license when he clearly asked the team if it was okay to do so and they said yes

Not at all unfair, it’s his job to know the rules too

Clearly the FIA dont agree with you now points rescinded, I think they have now done the right thing & fined team. Shame they ruined race though with unusual 2 x 5 second penalty.

Shame they ruined race though with unusual 2 x 5 second penalty.

I’m a Lewis fanboy but I though he did do it twice so 2 penalties? Am I confused?

I’m a Lewis fanboy but I though he did do it twice so 2 penalties? Am I confused?

No, that’s it.

Shame they Mercedes ruined race though with unusual 2 x 5 second penalty idiotic breach of rules.

FTFY. The blame for that goes on Mercedes for an idiotic breach of the rules, not on the race officials for enforcing the rules.

The point is, the stewards have been very relaxed with that rule until this weekend.

The point is, the stewards have been very relaxed with that rule until this weekend.

For example?

Not sure if this shows on here, but this amused me!…

👍🏼😁

Kryton57
Full Member

The point is, the stewards have been very relaxed with that rule until this weekend.

Speaking of ‘relaxed with rules’ it seems like Charles has been getting a bit of an easy ride. I know it was lap 1 but it wasn’t like they were 4 wide going into t1. He just ran Lance off the road. Basically the same as Lewis did to Albon, except obviously Lewis got a penalty.

edit: video

Leclerc no penalty VS Hamilton’s penalty from formula1

Stroll into Leclerc was identical to that of Albon into Hamilton (yes I placed them that way round on purpose) in that a faster car (Stroll, Albon) goes around the outside, they have a straighter exit whilst the car on the inside line is still turning, the fast moving outside car then entangles themselves with the inside car (their rear wheels are essentially between the front and rear wheels of the inside car (Hamilton, Leclerc) and they drive the front of their rear wheels into the back of the front wheels of the inside car. The faster car on the outside then spins. Stroll/Leclerc = Albon/Hamilton, but Hamilton got a penalty and points on his license….Why, because it affected the outcome at the top (and Red Bull made a big deal of it)…otherwise, its just a racing incident in the midfield. It wasn’t fair on Hamilton at the time – Albon drove into him and Lewis was on full lock, driving around the corner. Albon should’ve given more space, as should Stroll. Racing incident that you brought on yourself.

No consistency.

The pitlane start rule is a pure safety rule so there is no ambiguity about it, it’s either penalty or it’s not. I know at Mugello they were allowed to do practice starts further along the pitlane exit due to it’s compromised design, same at Singapore IIRC too. From the radio you can clearly hear Hamilton question it before doing them and the team ok’ing it so the penalties as they now stand are fair and act as a deterrent for others. A real shame the 10 seconds ruined a potentially good battle up front but they would have every team doing it at the next race if they had let it slide. Safety trumps racing.

Good to see the press are trying to push the ‘I’m being targetted’ line from Lewis whereas if you read/listen to the whole interview what he’s actually saying is that Mercedes, as the pace-setters, are being used to shape future decisions about rules. It’s been the same all the way through the sport from the 50’s with engine size changes, through the 80’s with Chapman’s Ground Effect innovations and twin chassis experiments through to Renault’s Mass Damper. Mercedes are in a similar position to McLaren in ’88 and Williams in ’92-93 where they have such a great team and car advantage that it’s obvious the FIA are going to try and peg their advantage back. The difference is that in ’88 McLaren knew the turbo era was ending so had one last hurrah while other teams focussed on ’89 whereas Williams were so far ahead on all fronts that if they weren’t made slower through a regulation change they would have been as dominant then for as long as Mercedes are now. Hamilton is just trying to cut off any further rule changes before they do find the ‘Magic Bullet’ that is the key to their dominance.

No consistency.

Exactly, I was against Hamilton getting that penalty and against Leclerc getting one, BUT if Hamilton does get a penalty then Leclerc needs to also. This system of different stewards is no good.

Also on Leclerc though, he also got away with driving two laps with no seatbelt but Lewis got a ticking off for loosening his to wave at fans after the race, ignoring the covid rules and putting pics of it on social media, the fuel discrepancy in abu dhabi (should have been a DQ), continuing to drive with a broken front wing after he could have pitted. I’m sure there’s more as well.

edit- monza last year, on hamilton 😁

The pitlane start rule is a pure safety rule so there is no ambiguity about it, it’s either penalty or it’s not.

+1 except

I know at Mugello they were allowed to do practice starts further along the pitlane exit due to it’s compromised design, same at Singapore IIRC too.

Which is arguably ambiguous. However, unless the “Mugello clause” had been deemed to apply at Sochi the team were in breach of the regs. Lewis asked for clarification so he knew there was a potential issue.

As for Leclerc Stroll, racing incident, typical lap 1 stuff, nothing to deserve a penalty. If anything, Stroll’s line changed rather rapidly at the exit of the turn – possible blocking manoeuvre?