Home Forums Chat Forum F1 2020 (spoilers abound)

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  • F1 2020 (spoilers abound)
  • the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Yep a nice shift!

    Seems odd it will be beaten again so soon though when Alonso returns for at least 2 seasons.

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    This season in the Alfa poor old Kimi must have felt like he was doing that extra distance every race.

    dooosuk
    Free Member

    This season in the Alfa poor old Kimi must have felt like he was doing that extra distance every race.

    He’s also losing a few km’s by being lapped each race 🙂

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Yin and yang.

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Excellent news.

    mashr
    Full Member

    Wonder if Claire is studying her other options yet?

    thepurist
    Full Member

    Excellent news.

    Maybe not so excellent for Claire, as mashr says. There’s no way an investor is going to buy a failing team and not try to turn it around and the first thing they’ll look for is someone to lead the team through that. Sadly I don’t think that’s Claire – I’d expect some sort of reshuffle where she goes back to the marketing side and someone else takes on a full team principal role. Frank will probably become ‘Team Principal Emeritus’ a la Bernie.

    bombjack
    Free Member

    I cant see how an investment company can make any money from an F1 team without breaking it up and selling the bits off. They will want quick results, Williams is already (almost) at the back of the grid, and it’ll take a mahoosive amount of investment to make them even remotely top of the mid-field.
    The rest of the grid isnt going to sit still, unless Williams get lucky with the rule changes or can attract some real top end engineering skills (I’m not saying the current ones aren’t talented, more that others are more talented than them 🙂 ) then I do wonder how a company that exists to make money for its shareholders can actually make any money from racing.
    I’d put £10 on it being sold again within 5 years, and thats a shame as I love the team and have great memories of them in their pomp.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    I thought the engineering co within/behind Williams was pretty profitable though?

    thepurist
    Full Member

    I thought the engineering co within/behind Williams was pretty profitable though?

    The press release specifically mentions the sale of Williams Racing, not any other part of the Williams Group so I expect the engineering side is still family owned.

    mashr
    Full Member

    Yup, Williams Engineering isn’t in the deal

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Toto is as Team Manager? He’s been dropping hints he’s not staying with Merc and he already owns Williams shares. Something big brewing in the background?

    hols2
    Free Member

    Williams is already (almost) at the back of the grid, and it’ll take a mahoosive amount of investment to make them even remotely top of the mid-field.

    The whole point of the huge changes coming in the next couple of years is to make it possible for mid-field teams to be profitable. The sport needs 10 teams that are financially stable, so the cost cap and new concorde agreement were aimed at that. The richer teams will still have an advantage because the salaries of drivers and chief designer aren’t part of the cost cap, which means that Merc, Ferrari, and Red Bull, can pay massive salaries for superstar drivers and designers that the poorer teams can’t afford, but the big teams won’t be able to hire 1000 engineers versus 200 for the small teams. A smaller team with a well-managed technical department should be able to get much closer to the front than they can now, hopefully that will help them attract sponsors so they aren’t all perpetually on the verge of bankruptcy. Williams’ new owners seem to think it’s worth a gamble.

    retro83
    Free Member

    Wasn’t Williams Advanced Engineering already sold last year?

    Reading more about the buyer, it sounds like they’ll try and turn the team around rather than break it up and asset strip it.

    Genii Capital did a pretty good job with Lotus so hopefully these guys can do the same.

    From Dorilton’s website:

    Patience

    We prefer to create value over the longer term by reinvesting cash flow while avoiding excessive leverage.
    Partnership

    We work actively with existing management teams recognizing that long-term business success is the result of a team effort. Dorilton views its role as providing additional capital for acquisitions and growth projects and support and expertise to take its companies to the next level.
    Continuity

    We partner with companies that are led by strong management teams and have a successful history and culture. We firmly believe in our companies continuing with the elements that have made them successful.

    hols2
    Free Member

    FB-ATB
    Full Member

    Reading more about the buyer, it sounds like they’ll try and turn the team around rather than break it up and asset strip it.

    They’ll not say on the website “We’ll saddle the company with debt and asset strip it for a profit” tough will they?

    hols2
    Free Member

    I’m not really sure that an F1 team would be a suitable target for asset stripping. Obviously, they have engineering facilities, future prize money payouts, and IP, but the sale price will reflect the value of the facilities, the prize money will only be paid if they continue to operate, and the IP generally won’t have much market value IMO. This is because i) Their car is horribly slow so no other team will want their data; ii) Teams have to design their own cars so they can’t just buy designs from other teams. However, that IP will have value as part of an existing team because it means the buyers own an existing car design instead of having to design a car from scratch like new entrants have to do. The Williams name has some value, IMO, it still has a lot of loyal fans from its glory days, but that value is only associated with F1, so they won’t get much for it if they close down the team and sell the name to a clothing label.

    So my opinion is that the buyers probably think it is worth more as an operational team than selling off the bits.

    reluctantjumper
    Full Member

    Don’t forget the value of the F1 grid slot too, much easier for a new manufacturer to enter by buying an existing team than financing a new entry from scratch.

    I hope Williams end up better due to the deal as it really hurts to see them at the back. I’d be happy with consistent midfielder with the odd good result!

    chrismac
    Full Member

    It’s a bit of a no loose situation for the investors as it doesn’t cost them any money as they will transfer the cost of buying the team to the team as debt.

    Sui
    Free Member

    It’s a bit of a no loose situation for the investors as it doesn’t cost them any money as they will transfer the cost of buying the team to the team as debt

    sort off. The buy-out will be financed in a large part by bank debt, but there will also be PE money from both a company level and individuals within that PE firm – there may also be money from HNWI’s. The money back will come in the form of 3-4 mechanisms’

    Managament fee back to the PE’s -monthly – this can be fairly substantial
    then you’ll have the loan notes of different types (C1-3 and likely some D notes with different values)

    Debt payemtns to bank – i would have thought 6 monthly

    Debt payments back to PE – (this will be at end of term normally, so say 5 years) – this will accrue monthly and compound over the course of the term at an interest rate say min 12% (Some HNWI’s will be in this)

    Sweet equity – thos are loans at the lower end of the payback scale after debt and are realised post sale. These can be worth exponential amounts depending on the sale of the company, or worth nothing if it goes below the asking price. (Some HNWI’s will be in this)

    Profit after all other debts, loans, equity is shared out.

    For companies to asset strip, there has to be something worth asset stripping, generally in F1 there is sod all as it’s all owned by other people/rented, so they have to work on the assumption they are buying the brand, the people and the success of the company, so that they can sell it for either

    a. multiple of what they bought it for
    b. multiple of it’s EBITDA
    c. multiple of it’s EBITDA potential
    d. some chomp with more money than sense just gives over a random amount – (not unheard of).

    this is unfrotunately why people like he that should not be named, never go away as they never put money, but are good a courting people into high profile deals that have a potential to go right!

    hols2
    Free Member

    this is unfrotunately why people like he that should not be named, never go away as they never put money, but are good a courting people into high profile deals that have a potential to go right!

    So you’re say that Flavio Briatore is behind the buyout?

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Wonder if they’ll still keep a bed at the office for Frank.

    Sui
    Free Member

    So you’re say that Flavio Briatore is behind the buyout?

    no idea, but possible – i was actually refering to the “he that should not be named” as the other knobber that steals bike logo’s, though wont be behind this.

    oomidamon
    Full Member

    Four more races announced:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/turkish-gp-return-2020-calendar/

    It’ll be interesting to see the difference in lap times at Istanbul Park, compared to the last time they raced there.

    thepurist
    Full Member

    I’m wondering who will bin it first at Turn 8 – Vettel or Grosjean? And will Albon try to pass someone round the outside there?

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Im really looking forward to all the interesting circuits coming up.

    oomidamon
    Full Member

    Grosjean in FP1, Vettel in the race!
    Of course he will, and it’ll be the other guy’s fault when they crash.

    oomidamon
    Full Member

    i was actually refering to the “he that should not be named” as the other knobber that steals bike logo’s, though wont be behind this.

    Weirdy Beardy is currently making a lot of noise about buying Sunderland FC.

    johndoh
    Free Member

    WTF….
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53947251

    What a boring race the second Bahrain race will be – it looks flat out for almost the entire lap. They may as well go to America and race an IndyCar circuit.

    thepurist
    Full Member

    What a boring race the second Bahrain race will be – it looks flat out for almost the entire lap. They may as well go to America and race an IndyCar circuit.

    Q1 us going to be chaos with everyone trying to get a quick lap with no traffic, and then pit stop strategy in the race could be tricky as there won’t be many clear gaps to drop back into, so even with blue flags for traffic there will be a few more variables to get right. In some ways it’ll be a bit like a high speed version of Monaco, but hopefully more interesting as a race.

    escrs
    Free Member

    Haas could be saying bye bye to Grosjean and hello to Hulkenberg for 2021

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/nico-hulkenberg-haas-2021/

    bombjack
    Free Member

    BTW the outer Bahrain loop is nothing like an oval. Its got a right handed hairpin after the start finish straight, and there are another 2 fairly heavy braking zones, alongwith the flat out twisty bit along the back straight. Hopefully it’ll be a Monza downforce style circuit. It’ll be a quick lap but DRS might make it fairly interesting if they end up with passing and repassing on the same straight.

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    Ferrari forgot their…

    With this sort of performance, if spectators were allowed at Monza…

    johndoh
    Free Member

    BTW the outer Bahrain loop is nothing like an oval. Its got a right handed hairpin after the start finish straight

    Like , err, yes I know it isn’t an oval but there are precious few corners. It’s just flat out > corner > flat out > corner. It just looks spectacularly boring. I’d rather they do the same (original) circuit on both weekends .

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    It’s just flat out > corner > flat out > corner.

    Erm, isn’t that how most of them work?

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Vettel is going to go crazy in Quali! Last in FP3.
    I am laughing so hard.

    hols2
    Free Member

    My God, wtf is with Ferrari?

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Been caught stealing cheating.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Anyone else think vettel might not show up at all next week at Monza, if he continues in this rich vein of form? Definitely can’t see him seeing out the season

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