F1 2016 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

Horner already asking for rule changes I see.

Renault back, McLaren faster…or just a Mercedes v Ferrari ding dong?

It’ll be interesting to see how Ferrari do against Mercedes this year, I think it’s fair to say that Ferrari have been improving at the faster rate so it may be championship #5 for Vettel (ugh). Can’t see McLaren Honda doing very well but it would be nice to be surprised. Also there’s every chance that Lotus Renault will go backwards before they can go forwards as well.

I think McLaren will surprise us….no way will they want a repeat of last season

All I see is another Merc battle this time a lot closer between the two and lots of teddies out of pram. Could we also see Rosberg replaced by Verstappen?

Hopefully merc and Ferrari both taking up the fight this year, mclaren a solid 4th, redbull floundering until horner swans off to become bernies official padawan, Williams sorting out their mechanical grip and pushing the lead 2 harder and most importantly Channel 4 doing a stellar job with the coverage.

I think anyone expecting a McL resurgence will be disappointed – there hasn’t been any huge change in regulations so they’ve got to find 2 seconds a lap just to catch up with where Ferrari and Merc were last year, who in turn might gain a couple of seconds – so they’ve got to do twice as well as the best teams on the grid through winter, I don’t see it happening. They can’t just blame Honda either there’s more wrong with that car than just power. Worse still McL don’t have a habit of making things easy for themselves either – with little reg changes most teams will still designing their 2016 car with the fastest version of their 2015 car, not McL though, it’s not Ron’s way – they’re start with a clean sheet and whilst Force India are refining aero, McL will still be battling packaging.

Anyway – I think it’s Ferrari’s year this year, they weren’t far behind Merc and they’ve got that special Ferrari way of making a few tenths (it’s called cheating).

They can’t just blame Honda either there’s more wrong with that car than just power

…or?

My understanding is that their problems are almost entirely engine based, it’s layout means it’s not delivery power, the KERS is mostly rubbish, and it’s woefully short on development time (Merc has been developing theirs since 2007/8, Honda…2015). The car itself is one of the better chassis on the grid.

But yeah, they’re still going to be low/mid pack at best this year

I don’t know about that NickC – much like RB blamed Renault be all their woes I think McL are too quick to blame Honda, yes power is thier main issue, but even at Monaco they sucked and they sucked only marginally less in 2014 when they had Mercedes power.

P-Jay – Member

I don’t know about that NickC – much like RB blamed Renault be all their woes I think McL are too quick to blame Honda, yes power is thier main issue, but even at Monaco they sucked and they sucked only marginally less in 2014 when they had Mercedes power.

Monaco wasn’t too bad for them in ’15. Think JB finished top 10 didn’t he?

Anyway the 2014 car was completely different to the 2015+, McLaren restructured their design dept, took on Patrick Prodromou as their cheif aero designer, completely redesigned the suspension, etc etc.

From what I gather, their problems have been mainly down to the MGU-H not delivering enough power therefore they have been relying on their (also weak) ICE performance.

Mid corner speed traps show that the car is as good as most on the grid. It’s problem is mostly the split smaller turbos, an MGU-H system that’s so woeful that at the Belgian GP at the end of the Kemmel straight, the car was harvesting energy when everyone else was deploying it. It would give up half way round most circuits which meant at least a 160bhp drop in power, and while they closed the gap to a baseline of ‘just’ 50bhp on the Merc by the end of the season, the issues with the recovery system meant that they were as much as 200bhp down on the Merc. prompting Alonso’s “GP2 engine” sarcastic comments.

I hear what you’re saying regarding teams quick to jump on stuff “out of their control” for their woes, but Maclaren’s are entirely engine based.

Could we also see Rosberg replaced by Verstappen?

Yes, it’s going to be interesting to see what happens with Verstappen.

1) Every team is going to want to sign him up
2) Red Bull have him under contract but don’t have a championship winning car (or do they….)
3) Mercedes and Ferrari have the money and the car to tempt him with but:
4) Will Vettel and Hamilton want him as a team mate?

I think he’ll stay at Red Bull for now. Which must be giving Ricciardo and Kvyet something to think about…

Pedestrian crossings in the race track would be a great idea.

Good point. And sex shops, obviously 😉 :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sex-shops-on-motorways

I didn’t see Horner asking for rule changes to mix things up a bit when they were winning loads.

Odd that eh? Wish they’d just get on with racing win or lose line the proper teams do…

I can’t help feeling a little pessimistic about this year in F1. Boring cars, boring drivers (apart from a handful), boring tracks. Needs a big big shakeup. I hope some of the mid teams can vie for wins this year.

I can’t help feeling a little pessimistic about this year in F1. Boring cars, boring drivers (apart from a handful), boring tracks. Needs a big big shakeup. I hope some of the mid teams can vie for wins this year.

I’m not as excited as usual either. I think it’s mostly because the main challenge to Mercedes comes from Ferrari and Vettel, neither of which I like that much..

Boring cars? They’ll probably hit all time peak downforce this year and are more powerful than they have been for years. The biggest problem with f1 is the number of people who’ve jumped onto the bandwagon of there being a big problem with f1. There are those who suggest that a lot of the negativity is being fed be bernie in an attempt to bring down the price of cvcs share, and he’s doing a fine job so far.

Anyhow, Haas – aka Ferrari B – back markers or midfield contenders?

Anyhow, Haas – aka Ferrari B – back markers or midfield contenders?

Good question! 🙂

I would put them in front of Manor, Sauber, McLaren and possibly Lotus/Renault but behind Torro Rosso, Force India, Red Bull, Williams and the rest…

Haas will an interesting one – they could do what Aguri F1 did in their short stint, acting as a B team for Honda but often beating them….. The big difference is they are supposedly designing and making their own car but one cant help but think it may be a 2015 Ferrari in disguise.

I’m going for Hamilton to win again. Ferrari will be closer but I don’t think they’ll be quite quick enough to take the title. My thoughts though are that Ferrari have not been quick in qualifying for years and probably still won’t be. As such they may occasionally get between the Mercs but generally they’ll be behind. They may well have pace in the race and if that means overtaking I reckon Nico is more at risk than Lewis.

And unfortunately I do agree that the racing won’t be that great because we’re getting back to a position where overtaking is really hard as aero becomes more fine tuned and cars suffer more in the wake.

As for McL, I reckon on them heading up the midfield. Their chassis isn’t perfect but it’s known to be competitive and the engine will be on a par with the Renault from this year at least given there are clear and relatively easy fixes for the main issues. Closing the gap to Merc and Ferrari engines will be tricky in one season though.

I’m going for Hamilton to win again. Ferrari will be closer but I don’t think they’ll be quite quick enough to take the title

Coral would agree with you, they’ve put the odds for Hamilton to get his 4th World Championship at 8/13. Vettel is at 10/3.

I’m not so convinced. Ferrari are improving fast, and as much as I find him annoying I’m beginning to think that Vettel is a really, really good driver. Also the current Ferrari is being designed around him and how he likes to drive, and I feel that he has the ability to push the car beyond its capabilities. So, if I was a betting man, I’d put some coinage on finger boy.

Boring cars? They’ll probably hit all time peak downforce this year

You’ll have to forgive people for not being thrilled about the prospect of even more dirty air

Interestingly Coral are also giving McLaren 25/1 to win the Constructors, behind only Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes. Either they are very behind the times or they know something we don’t! 😉

I don’t think I can remember a season when some-one wasn’t complaining about something on the cars, too much downforce, to much mechanical grip, too much engine power, wrong type of engines….

It is what it is really.

I hope dallara will do a better job than they did for hrt. I’m not sure Renault / Lotus will have a better car then RBR so expect them to be behind but assume Torro Rosso to move up with their Ferrari 2015 PU.

WIll Mchonda will be quicker but be suffer more failures? I think engine reliability has been quite good with at least 1 car finishing for most teams 🙂 . I’m hoping for Vettel to do more standup comedy at the press conferences to make it more interesting.

Will Jolyon Palmer be the top and only rookie of 2016? Will Crashtor be sponsored by Direct Line and AA?

You’ll have to forgive people for not being thrilled about the prospect of even more dirty air

That’s not the cars being boring though, that’s a byproduct of what’s making them quick at the mo. The cars are perhaps the most amazing pieces of design and engineering that they’ve ever been but the sport does a lousy job of selling them.

So what you’re saying is that the cars are great, but shit at being race cars? Kinda defeats the purpose imo

“Boring cars? They’ll probably hit all time peak downforce this year and are more powerful than they have been for years. “

That’s what ruining it recently. You can’t get anywhere near the car in front as you then can’t go round the corner fast than them to overtake.
Bigger tyres. More power. Less aero. Win!

So what you’re saying is that the cars are great, but shit at being race cars? Kinda defeats the purpose imo

That’s more or less F1 since about 1980 or so.

Late 80s maybe pondo, aero wasn’t that smart in the Saudia Williams days. When was the last prolonged nose to tail fight for a win? Mansell/Senna in Spain 86? The 90s became increasingly reliant on passing in the pits, and the noughties was when the dirty air thing started attracting attention with the owg and their centreline downwash wing.

Ground effect is never going to be a primary source of grip in f1,the safety implications are too great. Bigger tyres will make a tiny difference but I’d bet any team will take a wing over a wider tyre. So that means we’re stuck with aero. F1 will never be a spec series like indy so you can’t mandate a certain aero pack. Maybe you can limit wing sizes and complexity but even then the teams will use every molecule of air that flows over them to gain an advantage. The 2017 regs are apparently trying to reduce the dirty air effect but it’s part and parcel of f1.

I think aero’s been known to have a detrimental effect on racing pretty much since wings first appeared in the sixties – I’m not so naive as to think it’s as simple as saying “no aero”, just saying it’s incorrect to think it’s a new problem. Even dominance by one team is old hat – it’s a competitive game, people will catch up.

If the cars had ground effect only, how would that effect the air flow behind them?

I’ll be hoping that the Hamilton-Rosberg battle returns to the on-track magic of 2014. I’m sure Vettel will be snapping at their heels but I slightly doubt Ferrari will be able to be right up with them on all circuits. And, since the rules are stable, I can’t see anyone else getting close unless Williams gamble and get lucky on a design change.

Also hoping McLaren can at least reduce the DNFs and get into Q3 on a regular basis. Last year we were basically denied the opportunity to watch two of the better drivers on the grid go racing.

But mostly I’m looking forward to whatever Verstappen brings. Hamilton is always compared to Senna, admittedly not least because he’s always said he wanted to emulate him, but personally I think the way Verstappen drives and conducts himself is remarkably like Senna.

I think the “biggest” interest will be Rosberg v Hamilton with Mercedes again being the most consistently strong car by a decent margin. Ferrari to be good but not good enough to challenge.

Maclaren I think have a fundamental problem with funding. RedBull, Horner is involved in Ben Ainslie’s Americas Cup sailing team and the calls on his time there will only increase. Its not impossible RedBull could pull oit of F1 with further poor seasons.

Isnt WHitmarsh heading Ainslie’s cup challenge with Newey taking on technical design role. Horner has Arden in the lower formulas.

Looking forward to the new liveries

Ferrari improved massively last year, but were still a long way behind Merc. Merc will have improved further by the start of next season, so it’s difficult to see Ferrari beating them consistently enough to take either title.

Williams probably secure in 3rd. They don’t have the resources to beat Ferrari and Merc, but should be reliable and as fast as any of the other teams.

Renault have written 2016 off as a rebuilding exercise. Their car will basically be a Lotus with a less powerful engine. Difficult to imagine them beating any of the Merc teams.

Honda will have essentially a new power unit. The problems last year were nearly all related to the hybrid systems. With such a huge power deficit, downforce has to be reduced, so the chassis performance suffers from a weak power unit. Renault will also have a massively revised power unit. It’s plausible that the 2016 Honda power unit will be comparable with the Renault. It’s also likely that both will have reliability problems because they need to take risks to try and catch Merc and Ferrari. Both will have learnt a lot from 2015 so it’s difficult to believe 2016 will be nearly as heinous as last year though.

Fourth through 8th positions seem to be a lottery between McHonda, Red Bull, Force India, Torro Rosso, and Haas. Red Bull and McHonda start with weak power units but massive resources to develop during the season. Force India and Torro Rosso have decent, reliable power units, but lack the budgets to keep developing. Haas is a wild card.

I’m a bit confused on the RBR Renault PU with ilmor development. Will Ilmor develop for exclusively for RBR or for Renault? Could we see this as a foray into being and engine manufacturer for RBR in 2017?

My understanding is that Renault will supply RBR with a ‘base engine’. This will then be rebadged as a Tag Heurer and Ilmor will be developing it throughout this season, without anymore input from Renault. RBR haven’t said what they will be using next season.

Ilmor will be a contractor to Renault F1 not RBR.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122130