EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Eh, you do realise that Gibraltar was given to England as ‘payment’ so they’d stop participating in the Spanish Succession?

Someone is ironing somewhere

Is it Government policy

At the moment is just a right-wing wet dream, but they are in a cake and eating it mood these days what with labour being in the wilderness.

Surely then Andorra is “part of the Spanish Mainland” and so is Portugal. Is Spain asking for sovereignty over them as well?

i would advise reading up on the Treaty of Utrecht. Spain came out of it badly and as so often such things take a while to be settled. (if ever)

the interesting bit i guess, Spain is not allowed to trade with Gibraltar by the same Treaty…..

All really messy but then history tends to be.

Is it Government policy?

It has become impossible to tell what is and what isn’t.

Of course, as one of the privileged 27, Spain already had a vetonover the deal I think.
Does this not actually mean that the EU have taken a softer position (there can be a separate deal on Gibraltar if the UK and Spain agree – no one else gets s say on that) than if they hadn’t made this statement?

Is it Government policy?

May has said not. Well until 2020. Then who knows?

Is it Government policy?

It will be.

Making the UK free from this kind of regulation is all Brexshit has really ever been about.

igm, i think it is the same issue as Rep. Ireland, they both have land borders and as such other considerations that aren’t really applicable elsewhere. Admittedly there is are minor issues, such as to where the customs should be in Calais for example.

Freedom of movement lets people live in one country and work in another, as the UK has declared no freedom of movement as its main position the simple fact is you can’t live in the republic of Ireland and work in the North and vice versa, likewise for Gibraltar.

Is it Government policy?

No, but it is Daily Telegraph policy so give it time.

(And they cite support from IDS, Lawson, Tebbit, Open Europe and the Chambers of Commerce)

May has said not. Well until 2020. Then who know

In 2020 it will be decided by whoever wins the GE.

Making the UK free from this kind of regulation is all Brexshit has really ever been about.

@El-bent not for me nor anyone else I campaigned with

Freedom of movement lets people live in one country and work in another,

So does a visa

Except I think this leaves the door open to agree that sort of deal.

I think they are acknowledging that a no FoM deal might not work for Gibraltar.

Meanwhile we’ve slapped them in the face.

Edit: Jamba, you made the visa point months ago. While true, or at least true-ish, it’s a bit beside the point. It doesn’t normally allow you to go to a place and then find work for example and as s number of people on here have pointed out it risks splitting families. But I’m not telling you anything you don’t know am I?

So does a visa

and how much does a visa cost? How much RED TAPE, when you are talking about living a couple of miles from where you work, potentially in a fairly bottom of the pile job?

Stop thinking in terms of £100K a year and start thinking about median wages and below, far below, care assistants and the like.

Its only a 1/3rd of the Rocks entire population again that will have to sort out visas for their daily trip to work, its a brilliant (albeit amplified) example of how brexshit will harm growth, trade and industry.

As jambs thought that losing scotland was a worthy price to pay for brexshit Im sure he’ll have no qualms about abandoning gibraltar

Yep, the absolute best possible case scenario for the Gibraltish is that it’s a total pain in the cock. So it’s interesting that when brexiteers bang on about how much we’re behind the Gibraltarians what they’re actually saying is “We’re gonnae hurt your cocks. Blame the Spanish”

yup

Brexiters casually threw Gibraltar under their battle bus

As the unintended consequences of Brexit unfold, the fate of Gibraltar’s economy will probably not trouble the sleep of many British voters. But it should do. They broke it; and now we, all of us, own it.

It’s not an unintended consequence, it’s a totally intended one.

but, but , but Vote leave promised

The interests of the people of Gibraltar are best protected by a strong and independent UK #VoteLeave #InOrOut

— Vote Leave (@vote_leave) June 3, 2016

and they never ever lie………….. oh wait, yeah

While we’re on promises, I recall that we were *absolutely* promised that the Euro would implode, leaving nothing but the smoking ruins of major western economies.

Imagine my disappointment when I read that instead, the EU economy is on the up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/04/03/deflation-danger-european-central-bank-fresh-debt-drama-looms/

A blizzard of new figures paint a picture of accelerating growth across the region, with unemployment falling to an eight-year low of 9.5pc

A blizzard of new figures paint a picture of accelerating growth across the region, with unemployment falling to an eight-year low of 9.5pc

Thats not something i’d boast about to be honest….nearly 10% unemployment across the EU, hardly a success story….and lets not mention Greece, in fact it barely get mentioned anymore, its like the embarrassing member that gets ushered out of the room when the grown ups talk….lovely compassionate way for the other 27 states to treat a member in need….meanwhile Merkel cant get enough immigrants into her country, theres a phrase about putting your own house in order before lecturing other people, or something like that.

Re. Gibraltar, lets call Spains’s bluff and see if they’re willing to give up their Moroccon enclaves of Melilla and Cueta in exchange for Gibraltar…i think i can guess what the answer will be already.

Withdraw all British security from mainland Europe, impose WTO tariffs, watch Spanish fisherman and French farmers go apoplectic with rage and then encourage a resurgence in UK farming, job done.
No one said this was going to be pretty.

…then sit back and watch the squabbling as the remaining States argue over who will pony up the missing UK billions, this could be be comedy gold infact.

Withdraw all British security from mainland Europe, impose WTO tariffs, watch Spanish fisherman and French farmers go apoplectic with rage and then encourage a resurgence in UK farming, job done.
No one said this was going to be pretty.

Eh what? Which EU countries are harming UK Farming? Cheap non EU imports will do that, Do any of the fisheries reports on what will likely happen make Spain upset? Having to have a hard border with Gibraltar will be a massive pain in the arse for all concearned.

…then sit back and watch the squabbling as the remaining States argue over who will pony up the missing UK billions, this could be be comedy gold infact.

Want to put a figure on the number of billions? It’s not that much divided between the members.
Also remember heading to WTO puts a tariff on nearly everything you will buy so that is just like increasing VAT – yeah screw you EU the UK now pays MORE for it’s good, that will teach them.

Resurgence in U.K. Farming, U.K. Farmers will go bust on mass, very few make any money most rely on CAP. Take a look at the numbers of dairy farmers going bust each year, look at the ROI. I assume you have forgotten the new articles about the price of milk??

This is before considering that any future trade deal meals the U.K. Has to pick a side, Gmo and no sales to Europe. How about steroid beef? Etc

So does a visa

Let’s just clear this up. Visas are nothing like freedom of movement. They are conditional, cost money, can be very hard to get, and can be revoked.

As for a resurgence in UK farming – how’s that going to happen without big food price increases?

Well we could quadruple the (already high) suicide rate among farmers, render their land worthless and strip all environmental protection laws.

I personally don’t give a shit about moron farmers who voted leave but some people might have more compassion.

The government will have to subsidize farming to replace the CAP, (i believe Leadsome has really scared farmers by saying we can’t afford that)
The supermarkets will have to accept much bigger price rises, which will really hurt the poorest, what with inflation, stalled wage growth and continued punishment budgets hitting the poorest hardest.
Itd also mean big tariffs on incoming foodstuffs to protect our own farmers, which would lead to reciprocal tariffs on our exports….

I’m sure that’s me being too pessimistic, hopefully a brexie will come along and set me straight

Comedy gold!

I personally don’t give a shit about moron farmers who voted leave

I quite like eating their food though.

and not all farmers are morons and I know a lot who voted remain. The UK farming industry has worked well within the EU and lead the way in a lot of respects.

The government will have to subsidize farming to replace the CAP, (i believe Leadsome has really scared farmers by saying we can’t afford that)
The supermarkets will have to accept much bigger price rises, which will really hurt the poorest, what with inflation, stalled wage growth and continued punishment budgets hitting the poorest hardest.
Itd also mean big tariffs on incoming foodstuffs to protect our own farmers, which would lead to reciprocal tariffs on our exports….

Or we could take the actual cost of subsidising the farmers and pass it back to our citizens as (part) payment of the increase in food prices. Need to be the same per person rather than off tax etc.

We’d need to put on import duties to protect the farmers for a period (10 years, maybe more) though from cheaper food from abroad.

In fact I’m sure most farmers would be against subsidising ANY other industry anyway (a bit like a majority voted for Leave) 😉 maybe the should just be let loose with the free-market?

Farmer on the morning news the other day, he voted to leave, his reasons were cheap EU imports and the supermarkets drive down his prices.
He wants a genuinely free unsubsidized market where he can sell his product at a fair price, couldn’t argue with that really.

Funnily enough not everyone is entitled to eat cheap mass produced steak every night, if some costs get passed onto the consumer then so be it.

http://newsthump.com/2017/04/03/shit-flinging-gibraltar-monkeys-are-missing-link-between-ukip-voters-and-modern-humans/

More on Gib…….:)

He wants a genuinely free unsubsidized market where he can sell his product at a fair price, couldn’t argue with that really.

I suspect that if the market were completely free, most UK farmers would be out of business and we’d all be eating corn fed intensively farmed beef from South America when we could afford it. More food miles, worse for the environment and worse animal welfare standards.

Sounds great!

Funnily enough not everyone is entitled to eat cheap mass produced steak every night

You really think that’s what pepole are eating? Steak every night?

Or are you just making up bollocks to boost your preconceptions? Be honest now.. you are, aren’t you?

You’d hope that at this moment someone in Govt is currently working out the farming options/costs. Well you’d hope…

I think they’re spending the time on money on the stuff that really matters

deviant – Member

Farmer on the morning news the other day, he voted to leave, his reasons were cheap EU imports and the supermarkets drive down his prices.
He wants a genuinely free unsubsidized market where he can sell his product at a fair price, couldn’t argue with that really.

Did he say anything that made “I don’t like cheap imports” “I don’t like supermarket buying power” and “I want a genuinely free market” make any sense?

Funnily enough not everyone is entitled to eat cheap mass produced steak every night, if some costs get passed onto the consumer then so be it.

So be it indeed. And if the consumer chooses to buy some cheaper stuff from the US/New Zealand/Africa instead, and the farmers go bust, then so be it.

And then if we get all our food from overseas, and there’s a war or some other global problem, then we could quite literally starve.

Not really thought this through very well have you deviant?

Gibraltar, lets call Spains’s bluff and see if they’re willing to give up their Moroccon enclaves of Melilla and Cueta in exchange for Gibraltar..

???

WTF has old Spanish colonial enclaves got to do with the UK??

That’s a dispute between Spain & Morocco.

They’d be well within their rights to tell us to naff off..

As we do when they get involved with us & Argentina.

Free market, I happen to believe in it in its entirety.
The farmer made a lot of sense.

(And some of us without kids eat steak every night, when it gets boring we switch to smoked salmon but you get the drift….food is too cheap in this country, hence our colossal waste etc)

Re. Gibraltar, they like to kick up merry hell because it’s on Spanish mainland….let’s see how principled Spain is when asked to do the same with their Moroccan enclaves …if they refuse then they can swivel for Gibraltar. Double standards from them and they’re to be laughed away from the negotiating table.

food is too cheap in this country, hence our colossal waste etc

So your solution to food banks is…..

To make food more expensive??