EU Referendum – are you in or out?

He’s the leader of the free world (like it or not). Europe via NATO is his sphere of influence. Ditto the eurozone via the IMF

they need her to calm The Donald. The EU needs to keep on the UK’s good side.

I’ve no idea if this guess is right or not but I can’t help but remember Tony Blair travelling the world pre-Iraq acting as Bush’s ambassador. I recall some foreign head of state addressing him as “excellency” which said it all.

So that is consistent with May being recruited as Trump’s sort-of de-facto psuedo alternative Ambassador to the EU.

We don’t need a free trade deal with the US, its already our greatest trading partner (country by country).

This is another solid gold actual fact.
Loving your contributions today.

So, what is stopping us increasing trade with the USA now, from within the EU?
Which UK manufacturers are going to massively increase their exports to the USA as a result of us leaving the EU?
How?

We don’t need a free trade deal with the US

Yup, looks we’re pretty well balanced with the US (in terms of goods) so might as well just pay each others tariffs, having said that if the balance is neutral it’s probably very easy to agree to a deal.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4120.html

Mind you that’s goods…

I thought that Mrs Merkel was now the leader of the free world.

Jamba, nipper,
Hmmm… free world, leader of… who is it again who has their own embassies in not to secret revolt against them, is acting, how can I put it, a little facist (I don’t think that’s going too far, do you)? I’ll stop there. One of them is struggling to lead their country and their country is looking decidedly less free recently – so I think that disqualifies them.
Now who do I mean?

Says who ?

Merkel was riding high after tye financial crises one of the few leaders to survive and in fact propser (despite the fact the State owned Landesbanks where some of the worst US subprime offenders). It’s all gone horribly wrong with Greece/eurozone, Schengen and imported (invited) terrorism.

@igm, Trump fired all the ambassadors (which is usual actually) just shorter notice than typical. I can imagine the embassies have their noses out of joint, the new appointees are going to be rather different. Buckle up.

PS – Trumpski dances to Putin’s tune dear friend. With the best dancers in the world- allegedly.

and it is going so well for Trump after week 1 🙄

Well given within one week Trump has managed to piss off Canada, Mexico, EU, most of the Muslim world and a lot of other liberal free thinking democracies the EU has a clear chance to stand up and take a more central role in the world.

the EU has a clear chance to stand up and take a more central role in the world.

Great time to be leaving eh?

most of the big US corporations have also criticized him , especially tech companies .

There, there Jambalaya…

most of the big US corporations have also criticized him , especially tech companies .

He’s going after them sheltering profits offshore, they are very worried. The rest of the “outrage” is the new economy is aimed squarely at their younger anti-Trump customers.

EU has a clear chance to stand up and take a more central role in the world.

Ooooo kkkkk aaaa yyyyy

You can keep me up to date as to how that goes

(Totally mishandled migrant crises, thousands drowning the the Med every year. Financially broken. Second wealthiest member leaving. No military indluence as only France has capacity to act internationally. Totally reliant on the US for protection)

Jamba

@igm, Trump fired all the ambassadors (which is usual actually)

I was aware. Like you say Trump replacing the ambassadors is not news.

The news is the rest of the embassy staff being up in arms.

Ooooo kkkkk aaaa yyyyy

You can keep me up to date as to how that goes

(Totally mishandled migrant crises, thousands drowning the the Med every year. Financially broken. Second wealthiest member leaving. No military indluence as only France has capacity to act internationally. Totally reliant on the US for protection)
2nd largest economy in the world
Overwhelmed by refugees due to massive unrest in the north africa
Protecting Refugees
Not breaking it’s commitment under the geneva convention to accept refugees
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-31/guide-to-the-geneva-convention-for-newly-elected-world-leaders/8225730
Preserving freedom of speach, expression and freedom of the press
Progressive, inclusive, accepting and forward thinking

I’d say the EU compares very well to the US, it’s a shame the UK can’t see that and insists on kicking them when they really need a helping hand. The EU will stand with the UK, the US will demand alliegance.

and a nice little summary of the basic options

Got to assume as always all of the things we like and none of the things we don’t is off the table

Except it has a glaring error in the first line. Better ie, accurate versions already posted/linked to.

Where is it from?

Ooops seems had to fire the acting attorney general and director of immigration and customs last night..

And Theresa May’s desperate decision to invite trump so quickly getting more flak

THM it’s from the BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38799686

Don’t tell me Norway and the Single Market… the reading around goes with either Yes/As Good as/are you splitting heirs?

Which heir is it splitting, William or Harry?

It’s factually incorrect. Period. Nothing more to say

go on then give us the THM dictionary definition…. then we can all be right all the time. You had probably best call the BBC too.

Big corporations worried about Trump?

What is he going to do?

I have done so many times. If you are happy with inaccuracy then so be it. This is the world of post truth politics after all.

I use the officially dictionary not my own – although in this case they are the same

You call, I have an emergency appointment with dentist (hence cragginess yesterday afternoon)

Desperately trying to think of whimsical tooth related joke…

Something about noticing previous posts had lacked bite, maybe something about biting when you shouldn’t?

Nope, not working is it.

Trust you’re ok and back to you level headed (if occasionally right wing 😉 ) self

😀

(Use the libertarian-authoritarian spectrum of you want to make a classification. More accurate than the wing one!!)

Quite a bit of pain coming sadly. Hope the lovely dentist (always helps) does her job better than the BBC journo

OK

I’ll add up Norway’s own definition

The European Economic Area (EEA) Agreement ensures that Norway can take part in the EU single market, and thus benefit from the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital. It guarantees non-discrimination and equal rules and competition throughout the EEA.

A stable and predictable framework
‘It gives our companies access to the single market and ensures that they can compete on the same terms as companies in EU countries. At the same time, it offers the same benefits to EU companies and citizens entering Norway.

How does it work?
The EEA Agreement is dynamic in character. It is continuously updated and amended to incorporate new single market legislation so as to maintain homogeneity across the EEA.

‘Developments in Europe – both major and minor – as well as various political initiatives at European level will have direct consequences for Norway. It is therefore in our interests to cooperate closely with the EU and to participate actively in policy debates at European level,’ said Ms Aspaker.

Norway does not take part in the EU decision-making process. However we can give input during the preparatory phase when the Commission is drawing up proposals for new legislation that is to be incorporated into the EEA Agreement.

This includes the right to participate in expert groups and committees under the European Commission. A considerable number of Norwegian civil servants take part in these on a regular basis. We also have around 50 seconded national experts in the Commission.

The Agreement does not cover the EU common agriculture and fisheries policies, the customs union, the common foreign and security policy, justice and home affairs or the monetary union.

For me that is either a Full Member of the Single Market with the oversignt of the single market being from the EU where the decisions are made or so damm close that it makes nbo difference.

http://www.norway.ie/News_and_events/Norway-and-the-EU-single-market-/#.WJBFgxt96Uk

Well done mike. Some accurate language there from the Norwegians including the correct magic words that I keep highlighting

sorry my times pic was meant for the Trump thread!

but it is an excellent sign of how low Brexit has brought us

that May has rushed so quickly (18 months sooner than any other prez in history ?) and so desperately to dangle this Royal invite (irresistible to trumps ego) to such a divisive and offensive man.

This is how much she needs to make Brexit look good, that she’s ‘happy’ to cause the inevitible protests disruption.

Itd be funny if it wasnt so sad

Use the libertarian-authoritarian spectrum of you want to make a classification. More accurate than the wing one!

Yes left/right wing is lazy I agree. However libertarian-authoritarian has its problems too. Not least because the economically libertarian tend to be (tend note not are) socially authoritarian.

Me I’m a believer in setting the rules of the game in a way that stops things hitting the skids but within that reasonably happy to let folk get on with things.

I notice at work in libertarian most of the time, but when I’m not I hit the authoritarian end of the scale very quickly.

And I have a lack of trust in people who can’t move up and down that scale.

Which brings me to May. Social authoritarian – well that’s not news. Political authoritarian – not a surprise. But she is now turning out to be an economic authoritarian – which I’m a little surprised at even though she may just be playing to the galley with no intention of following through. And she’s coming across as a bully. So very much in the Trump/Putin mould.

Which is probably why I don’t like her (I know, who would I have instead?) – although those self same traits will appeal to others.

I’ve tried Mike. THM has this bee in his bonnet about trying to simplify all Single Market involvement to two words… “member” or “access” and refuses to except any terms that suggest that any non-EU counties are in, or are a part of, or participate in the Single Market. Even if you add caveats to clarify your meaning.

IGM – most one dimensional systems of classification are flawed. I did like the joke about biting too hard – spot on in two dimensions!

kelvin, on the contrary it is you who is simplifying matters and getting them wrong. Factually wrong. I am being precise and it’s not just semantics, it’s fundamental to understand the distinction. If the Norwegians can get it right, we should be able to too.

That you and mike, choose to ignore this is fine. We just disqualify you from the next vote 😉

We have access to the Single market via WTO – services are tariff free, financial transactions are likely to be subject to regulatory restrictions. Note these exist in the US but the UK still does a large amount of such business with the US.

Membership of the single market is to all intents and purposes membership of the European Union. The EU has decided for political reasons that full tariff free access to the single market involves accepting other non-related requirements.

f the Norwegians can get it right, we should be able to too.

The Norwegians got it totally wrong. Ignored No Referedmum result and joined up the the EU in everything except name.

No jambas, we are full members of the single market.

Going forward we will not be. We have to decide on the appropriate model that will give is access to the single market

Norway didnt get in wrong – unlike Mike and Kelvin and the Beeb – they define their relationship correctly

We have access to the Single market via WTO – services are tariff free, financial transactions are likely to be subject to regulatory restrictions. Note these exist in the US but the UK still does a large amount of such business with the US.

Well that deals with your own selfish interests but not other sectors such as agriculture.

SNP amendments: First amendment says bill fails to provide “legal protection” with regard to the single market, the customs union, and freedom of movement. Second amendment says there is no provision for consultation with the Scottish government and other devolved administrations.

So in addition to ignoring the results of TWO votes, the SNP are also choosing to ignore the ruling of the Supreme Court.

On the quiet they have compromised on full membership now – canny wee devils – to pander to some voters. They do know how to fool the unwary. #SDBMB

So in addition to ignoring the results of TWO votes, the SNP are also choosing to ignore the ruling of the Supreme Court.

you in an argumentative mood THM? Wanting somebody to knock that tooth out 😉
The courts said they didn’t have to have a role. However nothing to stop an amendment to include it. It’s called politics.
The aims of the amendments is to find enough support to get them passed that the leavers can’t accept.

Urrm, the court ruled the government doesn’t have to seek approval from Scotland, NI and Wales.

It doesn’t mean the government shouldn’t, you know in the interest of fairness and decency.

In a lot of ways it would be more fair for England to leave the UK, rather than drag the others down with them.