EU Referendum – are you in or out?

It’s too late for a referendum, isn’t it? Need to see the detail/plan asap… ie is the call for a referendum wedded to a call for a later Leave date? Fingers crossed. Yes, the hope hurts!

Many Labour MPs have moved on to calling for A50 notification to be recinded now… to properly stop the clock. I tend to agree. Another referendum is already, apparantly, “undemocratic”… but realistically something is required to include voters, and fend off ridiculous claims of MPs being traitors, for doing what needs doing. It’s worth noting that LibDem conference also called for A50 to be rescinded, but the leadership/MPs have ignore that… so not just Labour members dragging their reluctant leadership along…

I think it was Will Hutton in the Grauniad who predicted ages ago that magic grandad would call for a second referendum once the point was safely passed where there was any time to actually have one.

To continue his theme of making it look like he’s doing something, when he’s just helping smooth the path for Brexit

He’s nothing if not predictable, as summed up today by Ben Jennings

Once again I must ask….
Can Corbyn deliver what he says?
I think his stance is a good place to work from. Just include freedom of movement and I’ll be happy.

This week Labour will put its alternative plan for a vote in the House of Commons.

If Parliament rejects our plan, then Labour will deliver on the promise we made at our annual conference and support a public vote. https://t.co/EjCifYCDJP

— Keir Starmer (@Keir_Starmer) February 25, 2019

Just include freedom of movement and I’ll be happy.

Agreed. There are ways of creating a new relationship with the EU, outside it, that works for people and business, but they all require FoM to continue, even if slightly revised in implementation. It does mean “our” politicans having less say in how Europe works… but, unlike back in 2016, I’m no longer sure that’s a bad thing.

Is this just positioning or can it actually make a difference?

Going on Magic Grandpa’s disgraceful conduct so far, am I very cynically inclined about this.

positioning

Timing… I feel it’s too late to get a public vote, unless paired to a change in our exit date to something like 2021… …if the result is that we are still Leaving, we need time to prepare… why have an “implementation” period, when we could get ready to Leave while still full members. And no, we’re not ready to Leave next month? So, let’s see the details… how and when would we hold a public vote? Not 28th March, with possibly leaving the EU the next day, obviously.

…would call for a second referendum once the point was safely passed where there was any time to actually have one.

Damn, agreeing with Binners again. But hoping he is wrong, of course. He’s not wrong though, is he…

The hope hurts!

2nd referendum? That ship sailed weeks ago

And Jezza is just as insistent on his red line of ending freedom of movement as May is, so all the rest is academic

More useless posturing to the terminally gullible

Kier Starmer must have the patience of a Saint not to have decked the beardy old sod by now

Kier Starmer must have the patience of a Saint not to have decked the beardy old sod by now

Or not actually hold the views he is credited with,

It is just depressing. Both May and Corbyn are totally transparent and too morally weak to make a stand yet they both play out their pathetic strategies. Pathetic strategies that anyone but the terminally hard of thinking can see through, as they expect the general public to be stupid enough to fall for them.

And we never disappoint as we live up (down) to their expectations. This is the common theme of the this whole sorry fiasco.

Do you think that when he gets home at night Kier pops on his little Lenin hat, a false beard and burns an EU flag…?

…would call for a second referendum once the point was safely passed where there was any time to actually have one.

It could however be part of a deal with the EU for a short extension with a vote of the Deal or remain being put to the people and implemented as soon as the votes are counted. The problem then is getting enough people to put may’s deal on the ballot – no deal would have no chance of getting past the people.

What a surprise. The Labour Party delivers on it’s long stated policy, as they were always going to do, and still you lot are whining.

A very good, if suitably depressing, article by David Mitchell about the shameful state of both our main, equally self-serving political parties

Why binary politics leaves Britain all at sea

The Labour Party delivers

It hasn’t delivered anything.

Rumour has it that Labour don’t want “Remain” as an option on the ballot.

Yes ,just let me enjoy this brief moment of hope.
It will probably be dashed tomorrow but tonight just let me have a beer and a blissful sleep.

Too little, too late.

Far, far too little, much, much too late, and still totally grudging, noncommittal and totally half-arsed

Unlike the enthusiasm for calling for article 50 to be triggered, then rejecting remaining in the customs union and the single market. No messing around or lack of commitment there, eh?

He’s a fraud. But he looks like he’s found a receptive market of people who actively want to be conned

Tbh the EU has been saying for months that if we ask for an extension, which it looks increasingly like we will, it will have to come with a meaning chance of change of position (in other words, not another 6 months of deadlock) which given the recent polls, MP and councillor resignations, national credit rating warnings and a million other things, they’ll throw the dice for a second referendum.

My 2p is either we’ll get May’s deal or 2nd ref which will likely be a Mays deal v remain.

The Labour Party delivers

Delivery??

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Not sure how the linky works for facebook but here is some of what your money is being spent on…

What a surprise. The Labour Party delivers on it’s long stated policy, as they were always going to do, and still you lot are whining.

That’s staggeringly one-eyed even by your standards, dazh.

How many pages are you going to spend tying yourself up in increasingly absurd knots this time?

Mays deal v remain.

Even a bad deal is better than no deal… so I’d be happy with that choice being given to “the people” at this point. It needs more than a short delay though… as we’re not even prepared to Leave with the current Withdrawl Agreement yet, legally or as regards deals with nonEU countries that don’t include us as a named country.

Just read the detail on the Guardian and all Beardy has done is restate that they will support calls for a second referendum if Mays Deal is voted down next month

Way to go Jezza! No rush.

It’s too late for a referendum, isn’t it?

Well the EU said they would extend for a good reason e.g. 2nd ref. And Corbs has been over to talk to the EU a few times so you’d assume that’s what he was talking about.

Still a little bit of hurty hope left… fool that I am. Let’s wait and see what the more trust worthy Labour MPs say after the meeting, before throwing hands up the air.

Well the EU said they would extend for a good reason

It’s not the EU we’re worried about! It’s our representives. Getting a long enough delay approved by them, in a way that forces the government to act… that is the issue.

What a surprise. The Labour Party delivers on it’s long stated policy, as they were always going to do, and still you lot are whining.

to be fair to the whiners, this is what Corbyn has actually delivered so far, as regards a 2nd ref:

That’s why, in line with our conference policy, we are committed to also putting forward or supporting an amendment in favour of a public vote to prevent a damaging Tory Brexit being forced on the country.

So as far as the conference motion is concerned, it sounds like we have moved on from ‘trying to get a general election’ and now arrived at ‘supporting all other options on the table’.

It’s certainly a step in the right direction, especially as they’re actually moving to block no deal, but given that on 2nd ref it is basically restating previous policy statements, I think it would be premature to get too excited…

Rumour has it that Labour don’t want “Remain” as an option on the ballot.

Must be true then

Thornberry unbelievably clear on Channel 4 news. Wow. She didn’t even say “let me perfectly clear“, because she actually was perfectly clear! Very clear on a Remain option, and campaigning for it. All could be stopped by May accepting “a” permanent customs union… but even that compromise is very unlikely, isn’t it?

Not being funny but the world has seen behind the curtain in the land of Oz …and started leaving will another referendum do any good or just slow the bleeding to death we started here…..end dramatic music

So, will he 3-line whip it or will it be another #labstain fiasco? Around 70 Labour MPs said to be against a 2nd referendum. Its almost like he’s now promising one knowing it’ll never happen. Or is that too machavellian?

Must be true then

Ah, you know better then? Do tell.

Or is that too machavellian?

That probably is his thinking (he managed to torpedo votes on extending the A50 period, after all). Other MPs genuinely want an EEA+CU deal and/or a referendum… and enough have probably scared the leadership that they’ll leave the party that the front bench may well swing properly behind “something” less unicorny, to keep most of the parliamentary party together.

Assuming we get there – is there a majority in Parliament to sanction a 2nd ref? Lab + SNP + LD + others still a minority and some Labour MPs will vote against any whip – some Tories would vote against their whip – but would it be enough?

It would require MPs currently on the government payroll to vote for it. Looks very unlikely… but we don’t really know what all those MPs are thinking, as they have to voice support for May. They could spin it as saving May’s deal, by getting it through parliament tied to a referendum on it… some look like they might do that already… could more?

I wonder how many labour MPs just threatened to resign?

I’ll still only believe the Labour leadership has even the slightest commitment to following through on this when they actually do it!

Corbyn’s demeanour at the PLP meeting when reading out the statement, was described by one labour MP as “like a hostage reading out a ransom demand”

Let’s see if anything actually happens. I’ve absolutely zero confidence in this shower to change direction now

I am looking forward to watching some Brexiteers absolutely lose their shit now though 😂

It would surely depend on the options, of which I think there are 4.

May’s Deal

No Deal

Red Unicorn Deal

Remain

Many MPs will vote it down if their preferred option isn’t on it, some will vote it down if No Deal is on it and some will vote it down if Remain is on it.

Good friend of mine lost his job today, fairly big architects in Glasgow gone to the wall. Commercial developers sitting on contracts to ‘wait and see’….

Sad, sad days.

It would require MPs currently on the government payroll to vote for it.

This is where it comes down to the choice bit it’s one from 3
1) Vote For May’s Deal
2) Vote it down along with everything else and go no deal
3) Pass it to the people

Payroll or not voting or not voting for one delivers one of the others. There is no more time

People speculate way too much on here and come to a sarcastic conclusion before an official announcement with detail has been made – within minutes of announcements.

Labour are delivering on their conference. And will now also seed hatred by those on the right/press for doing this. It’s very likely that this could be extremely damaging for them in my constituency.

I can see why they’ve put it off.

But we will see what happens.