EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Where are these people now Jamby? And if they’re all so good, why aren’t they already working here?

They were driven away by high taxes. Do keep up.

Brexies, being  disciples of the (lone) Brexit pro- economist are looking forward to all the pesky immigrant workers leaving & all the tech & manufacturing, with the boom industries agriculture & food processing being the new national job creation wonder.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mps-react-after-vote-leave-11269819

That is the plan after all, the Japanese ambassador only figured it out this week, hence his grumpiness.

“They were driven away by high taxes. Do keep up.”

They can’t have been that good then. If they were they’d have worked out how to avoid, sorry, minimise, their tax burden.

Ohh, man, it’s so confusing 🙁

So if an industry leaves a new wave of talented people will queue up and pay for visas to replace it? I see the magic solutions now

I love the smell of bitterness in the morning

Glad you enjoyed Church.

i find if most bizarre that those on the left who argue against central government control want to hand power to an even more centralised and self serving unelected bureaucracy.Thats why “true” politicalns of the left like Tony Benn, Corbyn etc are so against the EU

You really are clueless the left love state intervention – this is really really basic stuff and neither Benn nor Corbyn have argued for less state control – what do you think nationalisation is ? You cannot even grasp the most basic of basic concepts.
Secondly its an utter lie to say they are unelected , that would be our head of state and our upper chamber Every part of the EU has a democratic mandate unlike here.

We get it you hate the EU that fine but when you make reasons up you just look un informed

The EU is too democratic for some people…

Anyway, I enjoyed this…

The Chinese have a proverb, they say a duck was designed by a committee. It’s animal that can’t fly like an Eagle or swim like a fish. The EU has morophed into a huge self serving bureaucracy fudging everything by committee

On a fun note… I’ve never eaten Eagle, and while I like fish eggs… many people don’t.

On a serious note, “designed by committee” sounds messy, but is the alternative to ignore democracy, and set out a single vision for all to follow, with no discussion and no regard for diverse national interests? Compromise is often necessary, even if messy. There are advantages to fudging rules so that commerce and life can work across national borders. Still find it a bit painful that the generation that have benefited most from the period when these fudges were in place are those that voted most heavily to end it for future generations.

Every part of the EU has a democratic mandate

Who voted for Nigel Farage and Dan Hannan then?

And your point is what ninfan? Still find it ridiculous that UKIP used to have so much democratic support, yet little to no representation in the UK parliament.

Ditto the Greens.

That’s a huge advantage our system has. Nutters like UKIP and the Greens are kept out of power.

If you don’t know how an mep is elected and as above .. bah it’s not worth it.
At work we have open vacancies for Spanish and German speakers in tech support 1 applicant in6 months who was not suitable – before Brexit we would have typically 6 per post every couple of months – it’s well payed with training why can we not fill those vacancies?

Far be it from me to appear to support jamba, but calling the EU “democratic” is as much a stretch as saying that the referendum was a sacred act that must be respected.  Here is an example of the benefits of this “democracy” – the usual suspects feathering their own nests. Recall that Verhofstadt was the whining hypocrite who lambasted Tsipras in the European parliament…

https://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62406

it’s well payed

Maybe in your opinion, but the fact that you can’t fill the vacancies suggests that the market thinks otherwise. In fact you could argue that its perfect proof that EU migrants with English speaking skills were repressing wages for native workers with Spanish and German speaking skills

Given the quality of foreign language education in UK schools I suspect that finishthat’s problem is one that no amount of pay could fix.

but calling the EU “democratic” is as much a stretch

IS it ? It has flaws like any democracy but it is still democratically accountable unlike our head or our second chamber and this statement i was replying to is not a stretch its just BS

self serving unelected bureaucracy

.

I know the RW press constantly told us they were undemocratic but its just a lie. Yes there is room for criticism, as there is with any democratic method, but it is still elected and democratic.

For example no one in our cabinet is elected to the position they hold so are they unelected bureaucrats ? Do you not find it interesting that this charge is never levvied against them /us?

That Chinese duck saying looks like a transition of the British saying “a horse designed by committee is a camel”.

Trust a Brexy to go to China when there’s a perfectly good UK equivalent.  😜

“Native workers”

> sigh <

Let’s not forget all the UK workers with German speaking skills building themselves great careers over on the continent.

DrJ: regardless, every tier of the EU governance structure is more democratically selected than both the HoL and the HoS in the UK. If democratic reform is the reason for voting leave, there are somewhat larger problems a lot closer to home.

Let’s not forget all the UK workers with German speaking skills building themselves great careers over on the continent.

Yes, isn’t it a shame that they were forced to move abroad because their skills were so undervalued here?

“Forced” ?!?

Oh ye of tiny mind and narrow horizons.
(Or is it the other way around?)

Those who choose to extend their language skills are often interested in, and open to, living and working in other countries.

@zokes – totally agree. In fact one might say there is a symmetry: Greece/EU and NE England/Westminster.

When I say well payed I mean it and we have been employing on the same basis for 15 years with a regular healthy turnover. We have folks from all over the world working here

It’s not “the market” it’s Brexit
Too much uncertainty and likely negative outcome .

Is this one of those great deal with China we keep hearing about … ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/11/british-farmer-moves-fruit-growing-to-china-over-brexit-uncertainty

Greens have plenty of representation in Scotland. funnily enough despite a  pr threshold of around 5% no UKIP – I wonder why that is.  PR systems at all levels bar Westminster

PR systems can and do work.  FPTP gives unrepresentative governments

When I say well payed I mean it and we have been employing on the same basis for 15 years with a regular healthy turnover.

So, what you’re saying is that for the last 15 years its been cheaper to employ foreigners than train British people up to do the job or pay enough to attract local bilinguals and polyglots?

It’s not just language skills it’s a combination of IT and language something that is very difficult to find if you don’t pay enough – we know the market we operate globally,
There is a reason why folks are reticent to move here for work- we do actually ask them why , this is not some internet bull it’s the real world.

@TJ

Greens have plenty of representation in Scotland. funnily enough despite a  pr threshold of around 5% no UKIP

Thats not true is it? UKIP polled over 10% in the Scottish Euro elections and returned a UKIP MEP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Coburn_(politician)

We have attracted local language skills it’s not cheaper it’s simply not a common enough skill here .
I am a bilingual dual national and joined years ago , due to English being international the uk language skills are very poor it’s always been a problem and always will.
We have benefitted from EU folks coming here to work often improving their English language skills and settling here .
We are hiring 200 or so in Ireland- near Dublin – there the problem is the cost of living – that’s a market thing .

You rightly identify cost of living s a factor- thats the point isn’t it, you got to set up somewhere cheap and then complain that theres no local skills base.

You could have spent 15 years investing in skills locally, working in partnership with local schools and colleges to develop language skills, training local people and retaining them, building your and integrating yourself as part of your local community – instead you decided that it was cheaper to buy in the skills from abroad.

I was ignoring the Euro elections.  UKIP came 6th but got a seat.  first sand only time they will ever get any representation due to a one off set of circumstances.  UKIP haven’t got a single MSP, or counsellor

You could have spent 15 years investing in skills locally, working in partnership with local schools and colleges to develop language skills, training local people and retaining them, building your and integrating yourself as part of your local community

At the same time as running the actual business?  Where’s the time for that going to come from?

That’s the kind of thing that big companies should be doing – small ones don’t have the time and money even if it might pay off in 15 years’ time.

Ninfan – ignorant or trolling ?

Name me any company that does that and specifically language skills .
I would agree that other skills are open to that approach but basically these days that’s been killed by the Destruction of education by the Tories – witness what’s happened/hsppening in FE and don’t dare look at apprenticeships .

We’ve definitely seen a drop off in non UK EU applicants  for our positions over the last year, can’t say it’s specifically brexshit related, as much as the weak £. Tho some of best & brightest  colleagues who’ve left UK to return home to other EU countries have all mentioned Brexit as a reason.

Im surprised to see THM quoting gossip from the Brexit Bugle about Barnier’s stance upsetting EU27, article quotes 3rd hound accounts – ‘whitehall sources’ (aka increasingly desperate brexiters ) saying EU sources don’t agree with Barnier.

Amusing to read folk who want to ignore the result iof a democratic process (including a referendum and votes cast by our representatives) discussing relative democracy.

Is the gramaphone stuck again. Give it a bang

THM – that referendum was a long time ago now.  The world has changed since then.

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;”>Amusing to read folk who want to ignore the result iof a democratic process (including a referendum and votes cast by our representatives) discussing relative democracy.</span>

almost as funny as an avowed democrat thinking that once a descision has been made that’s it set in stone forever despite it being a second referendum and not seeing any contradiction…

im always astounded that someone who could see so easily through the SNP book of dreams is so myopic when it comes to the Brexit Plans…

now if it was only “wee eck” or “nippy nicky” it would be so so different…

but hey, you just go right ahead and laugh.