Dog attack/police response

Might be tricky to run in…tell you what I’d still shit bricks if a police dog came at me even if I was wearing that!

Shame there’s no ready made solution to keep us safe from marauding mutts. Something like a device to tie the dog to the owner.

Mebbies a bit like a lead.
No one disputes that but morons with their poorly behaved dogs dont agree

the other jonv – thats the advice in the mountaineering guide I have for crte – hardly universally applicable

and its also my experience it works. Twice I have done it. Both times the dog ran away whimpering

Sorry folks – somehow this went back to the circular argument.

So, if you’re going to kick out at a dog, best do it properly to make sure you do some damage, not some half-arsed attempt that’ll just annoy it.

Survival of the fittest. If you’re too slow to outrun, or too weak to beat it in a fight, a dog. Then just accept you’ve lost nature’s lottery and bow down to your new canine master.

This quotation seems to suggest that anyone who cannot deal with dogs is too weak and feeble to warrant a place on Earth.
I cannot outrun a dog. Even if I won a fight, I would not feel a winner. I have no desire to harm dogs (I don’t believe tj does either) and even less desire to have a wound that may require sutures, anti biotics and 5 hours in A&E. While the dog owner has pissed off home with their feet up.
As tj has deducted, the advise re how to deal with strange dogs is contradictory/inadequate and I would suggest a short lead and muzzle for all dogs in public areas is the simplest effective solution.

I grew up with dogs and I have a dog now. Even though our dog has a lovely nature and genuinely would never harm anyone i am extremely conscious that many people do not like dogs. If you have a dog it is absolutely your responsibility to control that dog either by good training or by restraint. You should really never presume that it is a parent’s responsibility to train their children to deal with a dog or blame some other poor victim’s inappropriate response to a dog approaching them. As a person who ‘owns’ a dog it is me that is introducing my dog into any given scenario.
Walking with a dog on a lead is tiresome especially if your dog is not very well behaved. So people let their dogs run free. Dogs are dogs, some have nice natures, some are aggressive, all have the potential to behave erratically and have the teeth and claws to do damage. Ultimately, you want to own a dog it is your look out.
As someone who has been attacked by dogs I would never blame the dog.

what is crte?

Survival of the fittest. If you’re too slow to outrun, or too weak to beat it in a fight, a dog. Then just accept you’ve lost nature’s lottery and bow down to your new canine master.

This quotation seems to suggest that anyone who cannot deal with dogs is too weak and feeble to warrant a place on Earth.

Did you just fall in the sarcasm?

It’s a grk island

This quotation seems to suggest that anyone who cannot deal with dogs is too weak and feeble to warrant a place on Earth.

Nailed it.

It’s a dog eat dog world out there.

theotherjonv – Member

what is crte?

Crete the island as typed by fat fingers.

I have seen the advice to arm yourself with sticks / stones in other places as well. As I said hardly universally applicable

Did you just fall in the sarcasm?

Well I may have done, I wasn’t too sure. But considering some of the other parts over the past 10 pages, in this thread alone…
(I shall go and sit sheepishly in a corner – although we all know where that can lead).

Don’t let the dogs worry you

Crete the island

Admittedly it was a long time ago but Crete is like the **** wild west out in the sticks!!
I imagine their dogs are pretty much guard dogs and so the fight first option is the best bet!

so the advice to stand still and hope they ignore you is not universally applicable?

tjagain – Member

so the advice to stand still and hope they ignore you is not universally applicable?

You’re thinking of Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Clearly not.

But I still reckon it’s my preferred option for walking in a park in Surrey. I’ll bear your advice in mind if I’m ever anywhere where packs of feral dogs are more likely.

and the T-rex advice has just been updated. Running is now the recommended method. I still wouldn’t try and kick it though.

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/tyrannosaurus-rex-couldnt-run-says-new-research/

Even though our dog has a lovely nature and genuinely would never harm anyone i am extremely conscious that many people do not like dogs.

Whilst I agree with your post, it’s not even about “not liking” dogs. I love dogs and will greet a well-behaved pooch on a trail with a cheery ‘hello’, they’re lovely and enhance the walk / ride in the same way walking past a family of ducklings might. What I don’t want though is to be covered in muddy pawprints or drool, or to risk a potential accident or injury to me or it if I’m on my bike. This isn’t an unreasonable requirement IMHO, doesn’t mean I’m a dog-hater, I just want to be left alone.

Not read through the entire thread, but has anyone mentioned yet that a good tactic can be to simply stop if a dog is chasing you?

angeldust – Member

Not read through the entire thread, but has anyone mentioned yet that a good tactic can be to simply stop if a dog is chasing you?

That was probably the plan the old man had in the video I watched where the old man gets eaten by dogs.

That was probably the plan the old man had in the video I watched where the old man gets eaten by dogs.

What video is that?

I’m not going to post it, just search pack of dogs eats man, or killed by dogs etc. Originally on liveleak, reposted on youtube.

Okay……happy to give that a miss, thanks.

We’ve all missed the obvious solution. If confronted by a dog, just climb something. Dogs are shit climbers and it also means you have the high ground, which as we all know, also provides a tactical advantage. You’re welcome.

If there is nothing to climb, then fate dictates you must fight to the death.

End of thread.

Make sure it’s not this one if that’s the plan

so the advice to stand still and hope they ignore you is not universally applicable?

No. A dog that is intent on harming you will do so. A dog that wants to chase and “play” with you will see you running as the “game”. The vast majority of the dogs you meet in the UK off lead in public that run up to you either want to “play” or want to be stroked and may jump up.
Kicking the dog in the face may be the best option but then the idiot owner may kick off.

Who care if the owner kicks off – I will be on my bike and riding away

so the advice to stand still and hope they ignore you is not universally applicable?

That is what you would do when an uncontrolled bear comes towards you and those bear owners are some of the most irresponsible people I have come across. They just let them do what they want.

OK. So to summarise.

Some people don’t like dogs for various reasons and don’t want them running up to them. Dog owners are to blame when this occurs, they should have dogs under control and if they can’t control them they should be on a lead or exercised somewhere private away from other people.

However, in the real world some owners are self entitled pricks and won’t do this, and therefore it’s also sensible to have a strategy to deal with an unwanted dog approach.

I, along with several others, plus various organisations such as the RSPCA, Blue Cross, Kennel Club, etc.advocate ignoring the dog, looking away, keeping hands under your arms (or in pockets I’ve seen) and saying OFF! in a firm voice if needed. In the majority of cases, the dog will have no ill intent anyway, and if it was feeling aggressive or threatened this shows you are no threat and attempts to de-escalate.

TJ and the Crete Guide to Mountaineering advocate kicking the dog and running or riding away, because it might be about to attack and you should get yours in first to scare it off.

I just checked some numbers, there are 8.5 mn dogs in the UK (source, PFMA) and there were 7227 hospital admissions for dog bites in 2015 (ONS). That’s < 1/1000 on a per dog basis, and if you were to try to estimate from that base, both on the number of actual bites but which didn’t get reported – let’s say 1/10 is reported; but also the number of dog encounters (each dog is walked once a day on average and meets say 3 other people on that walk, that’s 8.5 x 3 x 365 = 9 bn ‘interactions’ per year and say 72,000 bites. In fact, let’s go OTT and say only 1 in 100 is a hospital stat, that would be 720,000 bites……. 720,000 / 9bn is a 1:13,000 chance of being bitten by a dog you encounter on a walk.

On that basis, what is more sensible advice? Ignore and it’ll very probably ignore you; or take action now just in case?

I, along with several others, plus various organisations such as the RSPCA, Blue Cross, Kennel Club, etc.advocate ignoring the dog, looking away, keeping hands under your arms (or in pockets I’ve seen) and saying OFF! in a firm voice if needed. In the majority of cases, the dog will have no ill intent anyway, and if it was feeling aggressive or threatened this shows you are no threat and attempts to de-escalate.

TJ and the Crete Guide to Mountaineering advocate kicking the dog and running or riding away, because it might be about to attack and you should get yours in first to scare it off

Unless you are absolutely sure the dog is intent to do damage (and the people advocating kicking the dog are clearly the least able to judge this), I’d say there is more chance of hurting yourself being chased in a fear-induced panic, or wobbling around trying to kick out then trying to zoom off before the owner catches up with you, than there is in stopping and waiting for the dog to calm down/be controlled.
I guess fear may get in the way of rational thought if you are truly scared.

Nope – its been shown on this thread that your advice does not work – and I have done the kick and run a couple of times without any problems.

There is no fear here – there is just an unwillingness to be a mutts plaything – this is what you don’t understand. Owner won’t control the dog – I will with my boot. simple

Try actually listening to what folk say and to put yourself in their shoes.

Its not rational to have to stop and wait while yo see if its a real attack or not.

I give the owners plenty of opportunity to control their dog. If they won’t I will

I have tried the ignore thing as well in the past – all that happens is you get someones out of control mutt slobbering all over you or stealing your picnic at best.

Ok jimjam wins!

jimjam – Member

Can this thread get to 11 pages?

For the love of god, can this futile argument be brought to a close?

With the number of atheists here, that may be a forlorn hope!!

I have tried the ignore thing as well in the past – all that happens is you get someones out of control mutt slobbering all over you or stealing your picnic at best.

Isn’t carrying a picnic going to upset your balance even further when wobbling away from a terrifying miniature poodle snapping at your heels, while you try to escape the confrontation with it’s middle aged housewife owner?

Try actually listening to what folk say and to put yourself in their shoes.

I think I am beginning to understand the fear thing now. You are terrified the dog is going to take a bite out of your scotch egg. That, I can empathise with.

Aledust – you really are doing the online equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going ” la la la la la”

You give stupid advice a proven by people experiences and show no willingness to see anyone elses viewpoint – just th standard entitled dog owners viewpoint.

Aledust – you really are doing the online equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going ” la la la la la”

*spits out croissant*

Nope – its been shown on this thread that your advice does not work

It’s also been shown in plenty of cases that it does.

Again, are all these respected organisations wrong and it’s just you and the Crete Mountaineering Club that’s right?

TJ, I like you, you offer sound advice on a lot of subjects but on this if you still think kick and run is the best option you’re wired to the moon buddy.

Right, no more from me on this, I’ve summarised it as I see it, people make your own decisions.

All those “respected” organisations are dog lovers clubs ie not neutral

Kick and run works, stop and make friends / try to dominate ( both suggested on here) does not if your aim is not to be bothered by the dog.

I DON’T WANT YOUR DOG TO BOTHER ME AT ALL. simple. stand still allows the dog to jump up at you with its slobbering mouth and muddy paws even if its being friendly. kick and run does not

All you guys are doing is perpetuating the selfish dog owners creed that their mutt can do no wrong and its the rest of the world that is out of tep – and teaches the dog running up to strangers is acceptable

Sadly there is no realistic prospect of even a majority of dog owners ensuring that they have control of their dogs, whether by training them to have 100% reliable recall or keeping them on a lead. So we are forced to have to consider how best to respond to aggressive and even attacking dogs (and their pond life owners). I am reminded of the advice in Richard’s Bicycle Book published in the 1970s:

If the dog attacks: one defense is aerosol pepper sprays made for this purpose. They have a range of about ten feet and are light enough to clip to your handlebars. A water pistol loaded with a water-amonia solution will also work but is a good deal less convenient. If you have neither of these and can’t or won’t climb a tree get a stick or a large rock. No? The bicycle pump. Try to ram it down his throat. In any event, don’t cower or cover up, because the dog will only chew you to ribbons. Attack. Any small dog can simply be hoisted up by the legs and his brains dashed out. With a big dog you are fighting for your life. If you are weaponless try to tangle him up in your bike and then strangle him. Kicks to the genitals and which break ribs are effective. If you have got a pump or a stick hold it at both ends and offer it up to the dog horizontally. Often the dog will bit the stick/pump and hang on. Immediately lift the dog up and deliver a very solid kick to the genitals. Follow up with breaking the dogs ribs or crushing its head with a rock. If worst comes to worst ram your entire arm down its throat. He will choke and die. Better your arm than your throat.