Does anybody actually believe crop circles are made by UFOs?

molgrips – Member
So… secret military aircraft is the most plausible possibility for the airline pilot UFOs?

mrmonkfinger – Member
secret military aircraft
Which, in and of itself, is pretty damn implausible in this day and age.

How long do you think the F-117A was actually in service before the public became aware of it?
The most common UFO reports given by civilian pilots are of black deltas, frequently over the North Sea, which tends to indicate some sort of spook plane flying in and out of the US bases on the east coast.
When Fairford was operational, there were always ‘twitchers’ hanging around, and a mate of my brother witnessed something come in late one night, which couldn’t be identified. The flare path and runway light came on, but very dim, and a very odd sounding jet came in, with no navigation lights showing. As soon as it touched down and started to taxi, all lights went off, and a car using sidelights only drove out and guided it into an unlit hanger.
Speculation was rife. And this was long before rendition flights.
The black deltas are often believed to be Aurora, and often seem to leave smoke ring trails, indicating a pulse-type propulsion system.
The Blackbird SR-71 was in service with the CIA for quite some time before it became more widely known about, mainly because the US military got into a snit over the spooks having such fancy toys, and demanded that they be allowed to play with them.
Lockeed’s Skunk Works no longer use Groom Lake, it’s too easily overlooked from the mountains; their test area is deep inside wilderness with no access for many, many miles around, so who knows what goes on in there these days.

I saw a UFO once, but I’m not in the military, or an airline pilot. It was three bright lights moving together in the sky. Mind you, I was pretty close to Edinburgh airport and it was overcast, so while I saw no accompanying plane I’m not going to immediately jump to the conclusion that it was aliens, simply that I couldn’t identify what it was.

How long do you think the F-117A was actually in service before the public became aware of it?

10 years was what I’d heard.

I’d be curious as to how long the B2 was kept under wraps?

molgrips – Member

It says at the beginning that he made his ‘discovery’ in retirement. So he’s no different to any other nutjob. In fact the implication that whilst working ad the defence minister he did NOT find evidence of aliens actually backs up the idea that there has not been contact.So are you saying your beliefs are more credible than his then? You must be able to talk to some important* people when you want to 🙄
*Like me 😛

mrmonkfinger – Member

Burden of proof, another logical fallacy.

Thing is, we do have some proof they’re made by blokes with a plank and a bit of rope. Which would be them owning up to it. If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system.
All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. The video pedro di maggio posted is not one of these.

piedi di formaggio – Member

As to whether they have visited us, I’m yet to be convinced. I’m happy to be convinced if someone can actually produce some compelling evidence to prove it. This evidence would need to be convincing though, not just something that someone has written because that’s what they think / believe has happened. As has been said already in this post, it’s all very well someone saying ‘prove it wasn’t aliens that made crop circles’, but that’s a piss easy thing to say when you can’t prove it was aliens either.That’s all well and good, but what would you want as evidence? You do realise eye-witness testimony is permissible evidence in a court of law by the way?
Let’s say I took a selfie with an actual real alien and posted it here.
“Fake!“
Or if I brought one round to your house.
“Fake!” or “Deformed child!“, “…I meant you!” etc.

piedi di formaggio – Member

As for saying we should believe because such & such a person ssays we should, because they used to be a politician or something, well that’s just silly. David Icke used to be a well respoected sports commentator, but he’s got some pretty extreme views now and doesn’t command the respect he once did. As for trusting an ex politician??? I think we know that politicians can’t always be trusted. Au contraire. David Icke is more popular and respected than ever. His last talk in London sold out Wembley Arena. He certainly couldn’t do that 20 years ago. And neither will any of you in your lifetimes, most likely. His views aren’t extreme either – Infinite Love and all that.

piedi di formaggio – Member

As for trusting an ex politician??? I think we know that politicians can’t always be trusted.AFAIK this is the first man ever to have held high office to come out and say aliens are among us and that at least 2 groups are colluding within the US government. I think you’ll find it’s most of the other politicians that can’t be trusted.

Take current primo banker-puppet David Cameron. This was before he was selected.

His response is to fob-off the seriousness with a joke, then say there’s likely rational explanations but that he doesn’t know anything and there should be openess blah blah. What a cop out. Even if he’s telling the truth here he certainly hasn’t been open and honest about it since, the lying scrounging poor-killing ****.

Dr Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, has said aliens HAVE made contact and it’s been going on for decades.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1037471/Apollo-14-astronaut-claims-aliens-HAVE-contact–covered-60-years.html
Cue all the responses like
“He must be out of his goddamned mind! Or a liar! Those astronauts, all that time in zero gravity to smoke weed and make up lies, the barstewards! Giving us things to have to refute on STW. Booooooo! Enough of this, I’m off to stick my Orange 5 in a diesel VAG-mobile”

Piemonster, I think the B-2 was announced almost as soon as it entered service, it was just too damned big to keep quiet about. I saw it on one of it’s few displays at Fairford, when it flew non-stop from it’s base, accompanied by two F-15’s, who peeled off, it did a couple of low passes, then landed, to everyone’s amazement, and taxied over to the other side of the airfield for a crew presentation, then a bit later she taxied back, took off, did another couple of passes, picked up her escorts and flew off. Astonishing thing to see flying close-up, it just doesn’t look entirely real.

All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

I’m sure these people can help you out there;
http://www.circlemakers.org/perpetrators.html

“so UFO’s, seen any?”

3 of the 4 said Yes.
2 reported it.

interestingly the 2 that didn’t report what they saw were told not to by the Airlines they worked for.

One of the two that didn’t report it, wasn’t told not to by the airline.

He didn’t report anything because he didn’t see anything.

Au contraire. David Icke is more popular and respected than ever.

With who though ?

People who think Alex Jones is a credible News Source ?

His last talk in London sold out Wembley Arena.

See above point.

His views aren’t extreme either

No. Of course they aren’t 🙄

If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system.
All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system.
All I want for proof for the claim that at least one crop circle is Alien made is to see any evidence at all that any are made by Aliens. I’d also like to see it addressed without conflating the issue into much wider topics of potential extra terrestrial life in order to blur the subject in a poor attempt to add credence to the theory. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

Au contraire. David Icke is more popular and respected than ever. His last talk in London sold out Wembley Arena. He certainly couldn’t do that 20 years ago. And neither will any of you in your lifetimes, most likely. His views aren’t extreme either – Infinite Love and all that.

Capacity of Wembley Arena – 12,500
Population of United Kingdom – 63,700,000

You could argue that % wise that’s 0.02% of the UK that went to see him. Wow – mainstream!!!!!!
His views are extreme – extreme can be defined as ‘furthest from the centre or a given point’, which I think sums up his views really quite well.

Dr Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, has said aliens HAVE made contact and it’s been going on for decades.

Well, that’s not quite true from what I can see. Some googling finds:
“Mitchell has publicly expressed his opinions that he is “90 percent sure that many of the thousands of unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, recorded since the 1940s, belong to visitors from other planets”

That’s all well and good, but what would you want as evidence? You do realise eye-witness testimony is permissible evidence in a court of law by the way?

Yes, but what’s your point here? Yes it’s permissible as evidence, but that does not mean what is said is true. Evidence is judged by ones peers in a jury and either accepted as true or rejected as being untrue

What do we want as evidence? Its simple – something that proves that (in this particular thread) at least one crop circle was made by aliens and that proof should be such that there is no other reasonable explanation for what happened

Well, by “these days”, I meant now we have the internet etc. 1980 was a slightly different climate with the cold war sort-of-still going, and information less freely available, but right now, information is pretty hard to keep quiet. Thus the current round of stealth aircraft are not very secret at all. The important stuff (stealth coatings, precise geometries, airborne electronic system internals, the stuff that allows the aircraft to do seek and destroy from so far away while evading detection) isn’t released to the public but, photos of the F22? Not a problem. F35? Much the same. Aerial capabilities, range, manoeverability? All well known.

Also the complexity of aircraft is increasing. The F117 was 1981 (although that date is a bit blurry, granted). Probably in dev for, I guess, 5 – 10 years. The current generation will take far longer (10 – 15 years?) and cost far more, and thus involve so much more people in their design and production. Which makes things increasingly difficult to keep quiet. Hence it is now really just the details that are secret.

The black deltas are often believed to be Aurora, and often seem to leave smoke ring trails, indicating a pulse-type propulsion system.

Ok, let’s assume Aurora exists, and a lid was somehow kept on it, even after all that, a black delta jet aircraft isn’t aliens.

If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system

Are you happy with that statement to exist for eternity on the internet?

Sure you don’t want to retract it?

Because, unless I’m mistaken, you do have to have evidence before accusing someone of a crime, within our legal system. And that evidence has to stand up to scrutiny by a court and jury.

In M. Night Shyamalan’s “Signs”, Mel Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix are standing in a field of crop circles sayiong that they “are too complex to be made by humans” and I remember thinking “Wow. They’ve got aliens in the SFX department!” 😆

That’s all well and good, but what would you want as evidence?

Videos or photos, and not of things that could easily be latex dummies. I’ll claim fake if it looks fake, but it should be easy enough to video things that can’t be faked.

Why doesn’t an alien land on the White House lawn? Why is it always the middle of Nebraska or somewhere? It would be very very easy for an alien to convince me of its existence.

but right now, information is pretty hard to keep quiet

How do you know? If anything has been kept secret successfully, you woudn’t know about it. Or to put it another way, the current set of ‘secret stuff we know about’ is self-selecting.

“Buzzers” said Ford. “Rich kids from other parts of the galaxy with nothing better to do than land on some remote part of a planet, find some poor unsuspecting local and walk up and down in front of them making “beepbeep” noises.

Rather childish, really…”

Ok, let’s assume Aurora exists, and a lid was somehow kept on it, even after all that, a black delta jet aircraft isn’t aliens.

Never said they were, just pointing out that many of the so-called ‘UFO’ sightings are described as such, and Aurora, a much-suggested hypersonic spook aircraft, is supposed to be a black delta, but there is nothing confirmed as to it’s existence, so it’s still possible that these things are being kept very much under wraps.

Anyone else dumbfounded at the conversation going on here?

Why dumbfounded?

Folk arguing that aliens are among us.

All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

Well, the one you linked to earlier…(which presumably you brought to our attention for a reason)

http://www.ufosightingsdaily.com/2014/01/update-on-crop-circle-in-salinas.html?m=1

As someone has already pointed out……

Mysterious Computer Chip Crop Circle Is An Nvidia CES Publicity Stunt [Update: Confirmed]

Is that enough ?

Personally I think aracer’s assertion that there is a planet with more helium 3 on it than helium 4 is the real eyebrow raiser.

So to the believers a simple question: Why?

I’d love to believe, it would make the world a more interesting place but balance of probabilities and a rational mind tells me that rejecting more obvious explanations is foolish.

A rational approach to the world is why we can have this debate, typing on laptops rather than scrawling on stone tablets with our own shit

Mr Woppit – Member

“Buzzers” said Ford. “Rich kids from other parts of the galaxy with nothing better to do than land on some remote part of a planet, find some poor unsuspecting local and walk up and down in front of them making “beepbeep” noises.

Rather childish, really…”

Teasers. Where have you got Buzzers from, is that the American version?

Teasers. Where have you got Buzzers from, is that the American version?

Well you might think its a long way to the drugstore but that’s peanuts to space

😆

Well that’s not exactly what I wrote, HHGTTG tells us that there are an infinite number of worlds, He3 is a stable isotope, some celestial bodies have higher ratio of He3 to He4 than is found on earth and I’m not aware of any physical limitation on the ratio. Certainly possible.

Wow – well squeaky party balloon voice – but now I want a robot lawn mower…

(with “”LAZORS””)

Maybe they get a bunch of those robot lawnmowers and hack them, then install cad drawings of crop formations and set them going in corn fields. Nobody would be able to see anybody out in the field tramping down the corn, then.
Seems perfectly feasible to me, the logo of circlemakers.org is a CAD drawing, so that proves it.

CountZero – Member

I’m sure these people can help you out there;
http://www.circlemakers.org/perpetrators.html
Hmmm. Not only is that the worst designed website in history, I don’t think it can help. See:

nealglover – Member

With who though ?
People who think Alex Jones is a credible News Source ?Yeah, sure some of them are. Most people are just ordinary folk who don’t buy the propaganda and non-journalism of mainstream news.

nealglover – Member

No. Of course they aren’t 🙄So which of his books did you read cover to cover to reach that conclusion?

piedi di formaggio – Member

Capacity of Wembley Arena – 12,500
Population of United Kingdom – 63,700,000

You could argue that % wise that’s 0.02% of the UK that went to see him. Wow – mainstream!!!!!!
His views are extreme – extreme can be defined as ‘furthest from the centre or a given point’, which I think sums up his views really quite well.Selena Gomez did one UK show last year at a smaller venue. She’s a mainstream act.
Of course he’s not going to be welcome on Newsnight or The One Show anytime soon because he’s highly critical of the BBC. Yet lots of ordinary people are too!
And which book of his did you read from cover to cover to define his views as extreme?
From what I can gather, David Icke writes and talks about what he does because he just wants us and future generations to live in a world where we’re free, happy, healthy and can pursue our joy and passions – and not in an abusive, perma-warfare, super-fascist police state like some people in power want it to be.
We all agree with that. So what’s the problem?

piedi di formaggio – Member

Well, that’s not quite true from what I can see. Some googling finds:
“Mitchell has publicly expressed his opinions that he is “90 percent sure that many of the thousands of unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, recorded since the 1940s, belong to visitors from other planets”Link please.

piedi di formaggio – Member
Yes, but what’s your point here? Yes it’s permissible as evidence, but that does not mean what is said is true. Evidence is judged by ones peers in a jury and either accepted as true or rejected as being untrue

Precisely. It’s for a juryy to decide so you saying “I don’t want someone saying they saw something as evidence” is facetious.

piedi di formaggio – Member
What do we want as evidence? Its simple – something that proves that (in this particular thread) at least one crop circle was made by aliens and that proof should be such that there is no other reasonable explanation for what happened

Just for everyone’s benefit, I’ve already said I’m not sure aliens make all the non man-made crop circles.

mrmonkfinger – Member

Are you happy with that statement to exist for eternity on the internet?

Sure you don’t want to retract it?

Because, unless I’m mistaken, you do have to have evidence before accusing someone of a crime, within our legal system. And that evidence has to stand up to scrutiny by a court and jury. I think we agree on the latter but there’s confusion as to who the plaintiff is here

molgrips – Member

Why doesn’t an alien land on the White House lawn?Because there’s some in the White House!
In the higher echelons of freemasonry that many presidents and high-ups are in, they worship an alien entity with a weird name.

Why is it always the middle of Nebraska or somewhere?

Look up the Berwyn and Rendelsham Forest cases.

It would be very very easy for an alien to convince me of its existence.

That’s good, in a way.
Ironically, most ET researchers think any kind of alien invasion in our lifetime would be a fake one because of what’s in the Project Bluebeam documents.

nealglover – Member
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/05/nvidia-crop-circle/

Is that enough ?No, because I would want nvidia to prove it.
E.g. if I said “Hey, I built the pyramid at Giza.”

Did anyome else have a dream they were on STW last night? It was all a bit Vanilla Sky

So which of his books did you read cover to cover to reach that conclusion?

Would you a like a hand moving those goalposts ? They look heavy 🙄

Why on earth would I need to read any of his books cover to cover to know that he has some extreme views ?

Lizard Overlords ?

Moon Matrix ?

Why the hell would I need to finish (or start) any of his books to know those ideas are batshit mental ?

Do please explain.

link please

Wikipedia, not that difficult to find for yourself

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell

Hmmm. Not only is that the worst designed website in history, I don’t think it can help. See:

Ah, so it’s a government funded misinformation thing is it ?

Righto, that old favourite of the conspiracy loon 🙄

From what I can gather, David Icke writes and talks about what he does because he just wants us and future generations to live in a world where we’re free, happy, healthy and can pursue our joy and passions – and not in an abusive, perma-warfare, super-fascist police state like some people in power want it to be.

I don’t disagree with his goals (if that’s actually what they are)

But that still doesn’t mean I believe anything he claims.

We all agree with that. So what’s the problem?

So you think that just because I agree with (what you claim is) his ultimate aim, I have to believe all the crazy shit he makes up ?

Your “logic” does not make sense I’m afraid.

Wow! The thread that just keeps on giving!!!

Precisely. It’s for a juryy to decide so you saying “I don’t want someone saying they saw something as evidence” is facetious.

No it’s not, we are simply saying on the basis of what you’ve offered up as evidence, we don’t believe you. You therefore need to either conceed or provide something that will convince us – that’s how it works in a court of law.

Because there’s some in the White House!
In the higher echelons of freemasonry that many presidents and high-ups are in, they worship an alien entity with a weird name.

I assume that you have verifiable evidence for this, or this a case of ‘I’ve said it, therefore it’s true and an undisputable legal fact’?

No, because I would want nvidia to prove it.
E.g. if I said “Hey, I built the pyramid at Giza.”

So when you say something we all have to accept it as fact, but when someone else says something it’s just rubbish?

Teasers. Where have you got Buzzers from, is that the American version?

Got mutated whilst getting dragged through a memory wormhole into the frontal lobes.

Happens a lot. More since my head had that argument with Leith Hill. 😳

Wow what a brilliant thread

I watched V the other night, I didn’t realise it was a documentary at the time maybe I should watch it again.

He3 is a stable isotope, some celestial bodies have higher ratio of He3 to He4 than is found on earth and I’m not aware of any physical limitation on the ratio. Certainly possible.

Definitely possible, but then its also possible that all the oxygen molecules in the room will gather in one corner and I’ll suffocate. Possible but really, really unlikely a bit like Aliens in the White House in fact

Having said that though if the universe is infinite (it probably isn’t) then there are far more simulated universes than real ones, so it likely that we live in a simulated universe. In which case all bests are off and you can have Aliens in the White House and He3 abundant worlds.

I’ve been largely staying out of this but I’m loving the spectacular confirmation bias being displayed here. This little stream in particular is great:

6079smithw posts a link to the 30th December circle in California (a pretty simple-looking geometric design) and says “Quite what entities makes the rest of them is unknown… no way did a bunch of students make that in the night.”

Later 6079smithw posts:

until you have footage of English men going into a field to recreate one of those fancy intricate crop circles seen above in one night then you have no proof and it remains unknown who makes them all.

So piedi di formaggio posts a video showing footage of a “fancy intricate crop circle” being created at night by a few blokes in 5 hours. They may not have been English though.

Meanwhile 6079smithw excitedly reports that the mysterious Californian circle bears the numbers 192 repeated in Braille (because aliens are apparently blind?). It must be a message.

Later he restates that all he wants “is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night.” and that the “video pedro di maggio posted is not one of these.” (why’s that then? it contains at least 50 circles by my count, how complicated do you want exactly?)

Meanwhile the mysterious and really-quite-uncomplicated one that was definitely created by alien entities turns out to be a viral marketing stunt by NVidia ahead of the CES announcement of their new 192-core Tegra K1 graphics chipset[/url] which is so “impossibly advanced. It’s practically built by aliens.”

So that’s cleared up then?

Nope. He wants nvidia to prove it was really them and until then it was obviously aliens.

Wow!

He is obviously a man of unshakeable faith! 😀

I believe that is the correct and concise answer to any post by smith et al and would save us all a lot of trouble. Might make the thread rather more boring though.

To realise the really bizarre stretch of logic here though we need to look at the history of such “circles” being attributed to aliens. I think it is generally accepted that certain atmospheric phenomena can naturally create depressions in crop fields – there is first hand evidence of that upthread. I understand that the alien idea originated from those trying to determine the causes of such depressions and thinking that they were caused by some form of space craft taking off – which isn’t such a ridiculous notion. The more perfect and complex shapes came later as a man made thing, probably influenced by this original alien idea and thinking it a laugh to pretend to be aliens. Then the idiots believers decided to run with the alien idea, working from the original alien deduction (note, not abduction) and expanding from there. Alien spacecraft making irregular depressions makes some kind of sense (I’ll even admit to it being a possibility). The thing is though, contrary to smith’s assertions the more complex patterns are actually less likely to be made by aliens, not more.

In the higher echelons of freemasonry that many presidents and high-ups are in, they worship an alien entity with a weird name.

Ok, hands up, you got us bang to rights, us higher echelons of freemasonry, that’s what we do all right, worship weird alien entities with weird names.

Or, maybe, its just an old boys club for people with spanky jobs, who want somewhere to go when they’re off duty. Although I admit that does sound a lot less plausible than the first version.

but the Freemasons ARE aliens.

The Freemansons Hall in London is nothing more than a crudely disguised spaceship!

its just an old boys club for people with spanky jobs

Exactly! Think about it, have you ever seen a high-ranking freemason that looks like he actually knows how to build a wall, let alone carve a doric column out of marble?

Clearly the masonry thing is a cover 😀

Hmm the NVidia thing did make me laugh when he posted it as it was easily recognizable as a chipset ( well to me anyway! as its what i do for a living). I assumed he was joking but apparently not. Oh and making it that size is far less challenging than making it reality! and a lot cheaper….