Creationist religious nutjob on R4 "One to One 9.30am"

I’d sooner have a faith than not – living without hope for me would be very grim

Basically more or less everyone agrees…..

(from somewhere on page 1)

Just wandering whether that quote is strictly true? Anyone fancy summarising 5 pages (of conflict)?

i, like many atheists, would change my mind if i was presented with evidence.

what would it take to change your mind?

I’m not asking or suggesting that you change your mind. Refer to the article Miketually linked to and purely have some respect for those that choose to have their beliefs.

And ultimately, as wwaswas suggests:

see the thing is if this life is all that there is then he won’t be disappointed ‘cos he/his soul won’t exist to be.

all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.

I’d sooner have a faith than not – living without hope for me would be very grim

why would not having a faith leave you without hope?

I have lots of hope for my life and those of my family – I don’t need a religion to provide a reason for looking to the future.

Junkyard – Member

Binners you prove my earlier point – the catholics are excellent at keeping the lapsed within the flock

Indeed.

I’m a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They’ll take you as soon as you’re warm.

At the end of the day, your kids will get a better education at the local Catholic school than they will at the alternative C of E affair . And as long as that’s the case, then they’ll always fill the pews.

So….perhaps the Archbishop of Canterbury should stop banging on about female bishops and gayers, and start addressing the real issue here. Their frankly lax and lackadaisical educational standards 😆

“Something omnipresent shouldn’t be difficult to find.”

It isn’t… billions of us have

Hi folks. Let’s get started shall we?

Firstly, creationism and intelligent design are not the same thing. Evolution is compatible with intelligent design, since the designer could have just set up the initial conditions and let it happen. No-one knows why there was a big bang after all.

I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church.
Bully for you. Not evidence of god, however

No but it is evidence of the value of religion.

or think we need to be taught it to make us better

We do need to be taught about religion to make us better, because many other people believe these things and understanding other people is extremely important in avoiding conflict.

It was just created as an excuse for a fat bloke to shag about a bit.

Not quite – the reformation had started some time before the fat bloke and had been having a big impact all over Europe. The fat bloke just jumped on the bandwagon.

Which, contrary to popular conception, is always rammed to the rafters on a Sunday

Yeah but what about the rest of the week?

wwaswas – interested to know what you place your hope in?

I have respect for other people’s beliefs, as long as they’re not rammed down people’s throats.

The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.

That’s not currently the case in most situations.

As an aside though, what does puzzle me is people like ro5ey up there. I’m pretty sure picking and choosing the bits if god’s teaching isn’t really observing religion. It’s a bit like Lance saying he wasn’t doing anything wrong and was following the rules of the sport because he was only on drugs some of the time

Would mentioning the Tim Minchin ‘The Pope’ tribute song be inappropriate?

It’s fairly (a lot) NSFW but worth a google for the lyrics beyond the profanities.

I won;t link for risk of the banhammer.

[edit] @tyger – humans. I realise I’m more likely to be disappointed but they’re far more likely to surprise and delight me.

It isn’t… billions of us have

Yet non can provide any material evidence.

The plot thickens…

The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.

That’s only your default position unfortunately. If you believe that something as important as God exists and you DIDN’T teach it to your children then you really would be unbalanced.

However they should of course be free to decide themselves if they believe it or not

You invariably do.

Good to know.

The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.

But what about politics? Or personal values? Or even goals and dreams?

You can’t mandate what parents tell their kids, or how they tell it.

It isn’t… billions of us have
Yet non can provide any material evidence.

They have provided evidence, you just don’t accept it.

That’s only your default position unfortunately. If you believe that something as important as God exists and you DIDN’T teach it to your children then you really would be unbalanced.

Most people’s default position on things that are generally unbelievable to the rational person is that the dint exist, until provided evidence to the contrary. c/f the world not being flat

born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown

Two things.

1) I don’t have a fear of the unknown. I’m quite comfortable with the concept that there’s plenty of things we neither know nor understand. Religion provides convenient answers for people who cannot accept that.

2) Nothing screams “zealot” quite so loudly as putting RANDOM words in CAPITALS every five minutes for no apparent reason. It does your argument no favours.

I would hope that I keep the the not-being-a-dick side of the line, but if I occasionally cross it it’s unintentional.

Well said, Mike. Likewise.

You start with such promise:

I have respect for other people’s beliefs, as long as they’re not rammed down people’s throats.

…To then completely nullify your statement with the following:

As an aside though, what does puzzle me is people like ro5ey up there. I’m pretty sure picking and choosing the bits if god’s teaching isn’t really observing religion.

And:

Yet non can provide any material evidence.

Which is it to be?

There’s a big building at the end of your street, you’ll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction. But it’s really up to you?

In my case that’s a Buddhist Temple, I’ll nip round later.

They have provided evidence, you just don’t accept it.

Where?

The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.

Utter codswallop! Are you going to leave the really important stuff to chance? Of course not! If your truly important stuff wasn’t molded from the very beginning by your parents then either of my daughters could very easily have ended up supporting City!! Can you imagine?!!! I’m sorry but thats a risk I’m simply not prepared to take!!!

From “http://www.conservapedia.com/Dinosaur”

“Creation science asserts that the biblical account, that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of creation[3] approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans, thus debunking the Theory of Evolution and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age and creation of the earth.”

I got that far and gave up.

No-one needs abusing for their beliefs, but I really don’t get my head past this stuff! I find it hard to understand how people can weigh-up the weight of interlinking information in scientific studies about Earth’s history against a few words written by a few people [and a very ambiguous pictograph or two] and say that the current understanding of how the Earth’s history unfolded is utterly untrue.

But that might be why I stopped going to church a few years after I started…

“And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.”

Douglas Adams

Utter codswallop! Are you going to leave the really important stuff to chance? Of course not! If your truly important stuff wasn’t molded from the very beginning by your parents then either of my daughters could very easily have ended up supporting City!! Can you imagine?!!! I’m sorry but thats a risk I’m simply not prepared to take!!!

One would hope that most of the “really important things in life” which you value aren’t based mainly on a poorly translated book of questionable authorship

Nothing screams “zealot” quite so loudly as putting RANDOM words in CAPITALS every five minutes for no apparent reason. It does your argument no favours.

Indeed Cougar, my apologies. I initially used itallics to emphasise my words of choice and then opted for uppercase. God knows why.

The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy?

Slackalice, you appear to have confused ‘sensible questioning’ for ‘lack of respect’

“Something omnipresent shouldn’t be difficult to find.”

It isn’t… billions of us have

Billions have “found” a cornucopia of gods throughout history and geography, from Jehova to Allah to Odin to Quezacotl to Nanabozho the Great Rabbit. And billions more haven’t found anything at all. I’m not really seeing how that fits with omnipresence; we’d all be agreeing otherwise.

42?

HE’S BEHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

Zokes… God is personnal, go check it out.

Not sure the Lance story holds out… An Arch Bish or an Imam or the Dalai Iama himelf will says they don’t live there lives pefectly in the eyes of their God…. we’re all on a road trying to get there.

One would hope that most of the “really important things in life” which you value aren’t based mainly on a poorly translated book of questionable authorship

secular upbringing is never going to happen, parents always project stuff onto their kids, you can’t prevent kids being indoctrinated with distasteful stuff like racism/homophobia/football from their parents so why do you think secularism is possible? But agree education and other institutional stuff should be secular.

slackalice – Member

You start with such promise:not sure what your talking about there alice, those 3 quotes don’t contradict each other.

Oh no he isn’t.

So this is the Christian pitch as I understand it.

An omnipotent being created the universe
He created Man is his own image
Some sinning happened which wasn’t down to the omipotent/omnipresent god but was in fact down to free will (which for some reason god doesn’t get into)
Got smites everyone
later god gets tired of smiting so creates a human form of himself (but not actually himself rather a sort of avatar) which he sends to earth to spread the good word, this avatar has to die (painfully) to forgive all past and future sins that man may do so god sacrifices himself to himself to forgive the sins which he wont absolve (although he could (omnipotent see) without the death of himself.

Frankly it’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

An Arch Bish or an Imam or the Dalai Iama himelf will says they don’t live there lives pefectly in the eyes of their God

I think it’s agreed Ro5ey that nobody can live perfectly according to their religion, hence the repentance forgiveness deal, but plenty aren’t even trying.

An Arch Bish or an Imam or the Dalai Iama himelf will says they don’t live there lives pefectly in the eyes of their God…. we’re all on a road trying to get there.

Yet the final destination (in this life at least) is unattainable. Kind of hopeless?

Oh no he isn’t.

Hang on a minute!

If he’s omnipresent and omniscient then not only is he behind you he also knows when to get out the way when you turn round so you’d never catch him out. That’s crafty.

I’m not asking or suggesting that you change your mind. Refer to the article Miketually linked to and purely have some respect for those that choose to have their beliefs.

Can you remind me again what the respectful view is that the religious have of those who chose to not beleive in their doctrine?

Burning, damnation, death in the main IIRC 🙄

“Something omnipresent shouldn’t be difficult to find.”

It isn’t… billions of us have

and yet you canot even agree which god or gods it is – fact is most of you are wrong – you cannot all be right and yet you all have the same proof for your case

I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church.
Bully for you. Not evidence of god, however

No but it is evidence of the value of religion the placebo effect.
FTFY

They have provided evidence, you just don’t accept it.

Says the degree educated Physicist – they have not really given evidence they have given, at best,personal testimony and you dont accept it either as proof

Look. Can you sciency nutters and religious nutters please just read this and get along?

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/main.html

Creationism and science blended into the perfect reference book – happiness for all!

“HE’S BEHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!”

😆

Oh no he isn’t !!

He’s much closer

Cougar…. because some of us don’t recognise him/her/they (doesn’t matter) when see/feel him …. I didt’t for 37 odd years.