Best not to, the scientist in me would want you to show me the causal link between what it says in the bible and the way people behave

No need.

If Christians were genuinely outraged by the hatred of homosexuals, beating of children, blatant anti-prawn propoganda and prejudice promoted in their main source of doctrinal knowledge, then they would have chosen another religion.
But they didn’t.

If Christians were genuinely outraged by the hatred of homosexuals, beating of children, blatant anti-prawn propoganda and prejudice promoted in their main source of doctrinal knowledge, then they would have chosen another religion.
But they didn’t.

Yeah, they all love it.

Best not to, the scientistgentle enquiring troll in me would want you to show me the causal link between what it says in the bible and the way people behave

Your right we could never show any link between what the Bible says and how christains behave. I mean the bible says marriage is between a man and a womaan and that homosexuality is an abomination, they are campaigning to keep the gays out of marriage and quoting the bible as the reason but yeah we could not prove anything

Islam has 5 pillars of faith and you can see them pray 5 x per day and watch them do the haj but yeah it might just all be coincidence they are doing what the book tells them to

Islam has 5 pillars of faith and you can see them pray 5 x per day and watch them do the haj but yeah it might just all be coincidence they are doing what the book tells them to

Well, this is how we would look for a link, we look for folks who are muslim and see how many of them do those 5 things, then we see how many non-muslims do those 5 things, then we see if there is at least a correlation if not causality.

We could domthe same with homophobia, for example, look at christians, see if they are homophobic, then look at non-christian homophobes. That way we could see if homophobia was a ‘christian’ thing or not. Could do the same with what ever treatment of women you are specifically referring to.

am I the only one that thinks these threads are a bit meaningless at the mo

Well, this thread is meaningless, but then, so is everything…

We could domthe same with homophobia, for example, look at christians, see if they are homophobic, then look at non-christian homophobes. That way we could see if homophobia was a ‘christian’ thing or not. Could do the same with what ever treatment of women you are specifically referring to.

Sure, there’s Christian and non-Christian homophobes; that particular problem is a ‘people’ problem.

What you’re neatly glossing over is, the Christian faith is ‘against’ homosexuality and, topically at the moment, same-sex marriage; regardless of personal prejudice the flock are supposed to follow the faith and do what they’re told. Now, this shouldn’t matter, and as an organisation they can think what they like; however because the faith enjoys special privilege within our government, it means that we’ve effectively got a prejudiced lobby group with a direct influence on our laws.

am I the only one that thinks these threads are a bit meaningless at the mo

Why are you choosing to read something you think is meaningless? Go and ride your bike.

the Christian faith is ‘against’ homosexuality and, topically at the moment, same-sex marriage; regardless of personal prejudice the flock are supposed to follow the faith and do what they’re told

This is why i was describing the approach above, it woild showmifmthe flock actually did what they were told in terms of disapproving of homosexuality, If we have a prejudiced lobby within government then it is the government which is at fault, not the church.

am I the only one that thinks these threads are a bit meaningless at the mo

Not at all. It keeps all the riff-raff in one, easily avoidable, thread.

I went to school to stop believing in imaginary friends – not to hook up with the same one as everybody else.

This is why i was describing the approach above, it woild showmifmthe flock actually did what they were told in terms of disapproving of homosexuality

now you may have a point here, how many xtians disagree with the churches homophobic standpoint and believe gay marriages should be legit? I’ve heard several christians on here and in the real world say they are cool with homosexuality and same sex marriages but not sure any of them* are lobbying their local priest/clergy/whoever to tell the head council to drop this obsession with interfering in other people’s lives. Has anyone got any links/info about CoE or catholic groups who are trying this? If the majority of the flock disagreed surely the religious leaders wouldn’t press the issue for fear of upsetting the flock? (Looks at current government, thinks about average man in street, wonders if that last sentence wasn’t as persuasive as I first thought)

*forgive me if you have,and let us know.

But the ‘God’ didn’t say it did she? It was some mad mans interpretation and people were stupid enough to believe him.

So if it were to occur today and say Obama came down a mountain and told the American people God had spoken to him, would as many folk take it as gospel?

But isn’t that the point that many have been trying to make, that ‘the Word of God’, as handed down over the ages, is always that of a human being, who says that God spoke to him, and that everyone should accept this unequivocally, because God hath spoken?
This is why I’ve never been drawn to any faith, I was brought up to make up my own mind, and nothing I’ve ever read or heard has led to me wanting to join any particular faith or religion. Buddhism is the closest, basically because its predicated on improving oneself by being a good human being, without needing the approval or instruction of some nebulous, invisible deity.
I’ve come to think in terms of there being an underlying natural ‘force’, for want of a better term, that keeps the universe going, kind of like one mind-buggeringly huge coral or jellyfish, where everything is just a tiny part of an infinitely enormous multi-cellular creature. Give the whole ‘thing’ a name, call it ‘God’ or whatever you like, Pantheism is what comes closest to my way of thinking.
It avoids arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong, because, in the end, it’s just irrelevant. 😀
I’m still enjoying the whole debate, I’m really glad that its kept going this long without really descending into opprobrium.

now you may have a point here, how many xtians disagree with the churches homophobic standpoint and believe gay marriages should be legit?

They do indeed do this in the same way as 99% of catholics ignore the teaching on contraception

This makes them bad at following what god has said , it does not mean god has not said it.

If the majority of the flock disagreed surely the religious leaders wouldn’t press the issue for fear of upsetting the flock?

I would imagine they would probably read revelations and think they were at the start of it tbh.
The thing is they cannot adapt and modernise as they have the oral code is written in stone [ literally originally as th eword of god given to prophets – they are stuck with this view just like the US is stuck with the right to bear arms. They cannot really re interpret it and still claim to be followers.

of course people an do this in the same way as i could never ride a MTB again and still claim to be a MTB er- neither would be true.

This makes them bad at following what god has said , it does not mean god has not said it.

You mean you think God did say it? 😉

But, it does mean that the church does not have thisnnegative influence on people’s behaviour.

Have to go,back and find the original post to which this referred.

Here!

The teacher in me wants to bother to get the biblical quotes that support their homophobia, treatment of women etc but experience teaches me some folk you just cant teach

You mean you think God did say it?

Well no as there is no god but I think they do think the bible is gods word etc

But, it does mean that the church does not have thisnnegative influence on people’s behaviour.

Your right all you need to do is ignore what they say and what god says when its negative and not do it. I am not sure how this make you a follower of said religion.

Have to go,back and find the original post which this referred to.

press F5
Repeats
😉

Your right all you need to do is ignore what they say and what god says when its negative and not do it. I am not sure how this make you a follower of said religion.

Well this is a toughie, What makes you a Christian? Live your life like Christ? What did Jesus think about homosexuality? Some might say Jesus is love, and so long homosexuality was about love then it would be ok. Tough to say. What would Jesus do? As they say.

Not sure what makes you a CofE but i think Catholicism has a very minimalistic set of rules in doctrine.

CountZero – Member

But the ‘God’ didn’t say it did she? It was some mad mans interpretation and people were stupid enough to believe him.
So if it were to occur today and say Obama came down a mountain and told the American people God had spoken to him, would as many folk take it as gospel?

But isn’t that the point that many have been trying to make, that ‘the Word of God’, as handed down over the ages, is always that of a human being, who says that God spoke to him, and that everyone should accept this unequivocally, because God hath spoken?
This is why I’ve never been drawn to any faith, I was brought up to make up my own mind, and nothing I’ve ever read or heard has led to me wanting to join any particular faith or religion. Buddhism is the closest, basically because its predicated on improving oneself by being a good human being, without needing the approval or instruction of some nebulous, invisible deity.
I’ve come to think in terms of there being an underlying natural ‘force’, for want of a better term, that keeps the universe going, kind of like one mind-buggeringly huge coral or jellyfish, where everything is just a tiny part of an infinitely enormous multi-cellular creature. Give the whole ‘thing’ a name, call it ‘God’ or whatever you like, Pantheism is what comes closest to my way of thinking.
It avoids arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong, because, in the end, it’s just irrelevant.
I’m still enjoying the whole debate, I’m really glad that its kept going this long without really descending into opprobrium.
[/quote]

There are so many conflicting trends and agendas, it’s kind of difficult to pick up on what folk are saying or trying to say, it’s a brave man who would declare faith on a thread like this in face of the big hitting atheist brigade, but you have only to see the two other poignant threads (suicide and lost son)running this last couple of days to understand why it is so important if only for our sanity at times to have something to believe in, or to seek solace within, be angry at, or attempt to reason. For what it’s worth I’m inclined to similar Pantheist views, it also ties in with a couple of other experiences that have given me to conclude there is more going on than a communal garden atheist would believe.
Atheism as so often indicated here is one of the main weapons in the homosexual lobby, it’s a dangerous pursuit to be politically propagated in a multicultural society such as ours, purely for the sake of sexual freedom as equally as the denial of its pursuit by the bigoted end of the Christian society, the outcome is peurile strife that clouds the quest for truth in my view.

Buddhism is the closest, basically because its predicated on improving oneself by being a good human being, without needing the approval or instruction of some nebulous, invisible deity.

Perhaps not a deity, but the use of the term ‘good human being’ is value laden, good by whose definition?

CountZero – Member

I’ve come to think in terms of there being an underlying natural ‘force’, for want of a better term, that keeps the universe going, kind of like one mind-buggeringly huge coral or jellyfish, where everything is just a tiny part of an infinitely enormous multi-cellular creature

We know.

Atheism as so often indicated here is one of the main weapons in the homosexual lobby, it’s a dangerous pursuit to be politically propagated in a multicultural society such as ours, purely for the sake of sexual freedom as equally as the denial of its pursuit by the bigoted end of the Christian society, the outcome is peurile strife that clouds the quest for truth in my view.

Sorry, I’m having difficulty in parsing that sentence. Are you saying – actually, I’m not even going to guess, could you clarify for me please?

They do indeed do this in the same way as 99% of catholics ignore the teaching on contraception

im guessing the plucked out of thin air percentage* of Catholics who use contraception just quietly do the deed in private and don’t go moaning to their local priest about it, it’s kinda hypocritical but it doesn’t really affect other people so who cares. The other homophobic, sexist, other-ist stuff does affect people so the flock who disagree with their religions stated views/rules should speak up or drop the religion. There’s always people saying religions adapt in time so why can’t this sort of thing be changed?

*you might be right

…then they would have chosen another religion.

But the vast majority of people DON’T choose their religion. They take the religion of their parents or choose atheism.

igrf seems to have got various quotes of mine and his muddled up.
Oh, and Cougar, Apple just make desirable shiny toys, which I happen to like. I also like Sony shiny toys, they just don’t make very many these days, sadly. The universe goes on without them, Samsung, or even you.

Atheism as so often indicated here is one of the main weapons in the homosexual lobby, it’s a dangerous pursuit to be politically propagated in a multicultural society such as ours, purely for the sake of sexual freedom as equally as the denial of its pursuit by the bigoted end of the Christian society, the outcome is peurile strife that clouds the quest for truth in my view.

For clarification, this is igrf speaking, not me.

CZ > Don’t take that first point seriously, I was only doing a funny.

The second, yes, I know, I just lumped the edits together. I do that sometimes, sorry if there was any confusion.

im guessing the plucked out of thin air percentage*

I think i heard it somewhere so thin air ish but sounds plausible.

There’s always people saying religions adapt in time so why can’t this sort of thing be changed?

The rules of god are written down you cannot really change the moral pronouncements as stated in the bible and abomination that should be put to death is pretty clear tbh.

18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Junkyard,you still looking at Leviticus? There’s been a new Covenant mate! You still watching stuff on Betamax too?

Junkyard – Member

The rules of god are written down you cannot really change the moral pronouncements as stated in the bible and abomination that should be put to death is pretty clear tbh.

Depends which “God” you choose, try Brahmin the Indian Hindu deity and creator of all life, allegedly construed as both sexes acting and living as as one.

Depends which “God” you choose, try Brahmin the Indian Hindu deity and creator of all life, allegedly construed as both sexes acting and living as as one.

Oooo, hermaphroditism, kinky! 😯

i use the term god for the abrahamic faiths and use the names of any other i refer to as a rule.

Junkyard – Member
i use the term god for the abrahamic faiths and use the names of any other i refer to as a rule.

Yes I understand that, as do a lot of the more verbal atheist types, which is why throughout the thread, I’ve tried to broaden the discussion, we are after all more a ‘global’ community these days and the God concept, like it or not is pretty universal and often pre dates abrahamic faiths.

So perhaps the discussion should be using the term ‘supreme being’ or ‘entity’ be used as to wether something existed to put ‘Big Bang’ into place. ‘Big Bang’ effectively being creation as we know it.