Creationist religious nutjob on R4 "One to One 9.30am"

I know of at least on deputy head of catholic school who is gay and lives with another woman. They were probably the same/similar generation to your aunt.

I genuinely despise the church’s attitude towards homosexuality and predjudice, but as I’m sure you’re aware what happens ‘on the ground’ sometimes bears little relation to the official line.

Another example of believers not really believing? At least fundamentalists have the courage of their convictions? 😉

TuckerUK – Member
Just had a skim, and someone posted (along the lines of ) ‘Religion, give it a try, what’s to lose?’

Well a fair bit actually. I don’t support homophobia, child genital mutilation, the suppression of females, I didn’t think much of Hitler, I don’t agree with that bloke who’s top banana of that Christian church banning contraception so leading to millions dying of AIDS…and all of these I’d be supporting if I joined up.

I’ll quote Steven Weinberg “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion.”

Well I don’t support a lot of that either, nor do I support popular atheist politically correct views, the promotion of ‘do whatever thou wilt being the whole of the law’ to quote a popular satanist view from the thirties and forties, nor do I support the active promotion of homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, or free sex for everyone in the classroom a la female teacher sacked just recently, each to our own, but it ducks the point I’m making, which is being an Atheist is just as bad as being a God botherer to those of us who really could give a **** about what you are or think and just want to get on with our lives without having any of it thrust down our throats, or our kids bought up to some artificially made up set of values to suit current trends and fads.
The Christian Religion for all it’s faults tells a fairy tale like Father Christmas to kids to give a reasonable set of guidelines by which to conduct yourself, which as soon as you’re old enough you can choose as most of us do, to totally ignore.
Islam on the other hand is a far more dangerous outfit and should be fought, not taught at every turn (my opinion sorry you won’t change it by arguing with me).
Atheism is total bollox and achieves nothing, so is no more than pointless posturing on behalf of pseuds, who gives a **** if you don’t believe anything, we don’t care what you think.

Agnosticism as I said is what we all are simply because we don’t know, no-one knows how can they we don’t really even know what gravity really is or how electricity is generated by magnetism, what force gives that power exactly?

All are beliefs to a degree, but only the latter has any logic to get you through all this, so wait and see, sooner or later we’re all going to find out, or not.

Buddism by the way is a branch of the Hindu religion which if you had to pick one would probably be my choice being as all encompassing as it is and accepting.

The Christian Religion for all it’s faults tells a fairy tale like Father Christmas to kids to give a reasonable set of guidelines by which to conduct yourself

Drown animals who don’t do as they’re told, slavery is ok, stone your daughter to death if she won’t marry her racist.

Good people were banned for less argumentative behaviour than this thread.

Sad, really.

Lots of churchgoing athiests of that generation Mike.
Breaking social taboos wasn’t as easy.

They both temporarily moved to New Zealand in the 50’s – my aunt wrote to her sister to describe a party they had been to and the different nationalities of guests they’d met.
She received a reply imploring her to come home asap 😀 .

I genuinely despise the church’s attitude towards homosexuality and predjudice, but as I’m sure you’re aware what happens ‘on the ground’ sometimes bears little relation to the official line.

And what the official line is is often different than what appears in the dail mail. Remember that the vote on women bishops wasn’t defeated by the ‘officials’ of the church who were very much in favour but rather by the house of laity (spelling?) who are selected from amongst the ‘ordinary’ members of the church and are meant to represent them but rarely do.

Keep it up, I like the way this is all going now.

nor do I support popular atheist politically correct views,

There’s no such thing “atheist politically correct views,” just people’s politically correct views. Atheism isn’t a political party.

nor do I support the active promotion of homosexuality as a lifestyle choice,

There is no “active promotion of homosexuality.” No-one is going around shouting “have you tried being gay? It’s ace, join us!”

Also, it is not a lifestyle choice, any more than being male or brown is.

being an Atheist is just as bad as being a God botherer to those of us who really could give a **** about what you are or think and just want to get on with our lives without having any of it thrust down our throats

No-one thrust this thread down your throat, you actively chose to read it.

which as soon as you’re old enough you can choose as most of us do, to totally ignore.

Really? That kid that died recently in the UK from having his foreskin hacked off at his Christian parents request can chose when he’s old enough?

All are beliefs to a degree…

Atheism is not a belief (to any degree), it’s the polar opposite.

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Good people were banned for less argumentative behaviour than this thread.

Sad, really.

Grow up and stop behaving like a petulant child.

Oooh, touchy. 🙂

Grow up and stop behaving like a petulant child.

+1 This thread has been far from argumentative, especially considering the emotive topic. Even Mr W has been relatively unargumentative 🙂

Also, did CFH just question a moderation decision? 😉

You were banned for acting like this:

as far as I’m aware.

Complain to the mods if you have a problem instead of coming on here and taking it out on others.

Was I referring to me being banned? No. Just that this topic has been hammered over so often it’s rather dull, IMHO. I assume I am allowed to make such a comment. It’s dull. You may disagree, but I wanted to state my opinion.

igrf – Member

All are beliefs to a degree

Atheism is a belief in the same way that not throwing a javelin is a sport.

I’ve just had a word with God and he reckons this thread has some life left in it yet

😀

It has been hammered over, but has the Agnostic view ever been fundamentally hammered home as I’m trying to do, sorry if that last post came over ranty it wasn’t intended to, but I’m just trying to illustrate that to some the Atheist view is equally as boring as that of God Botherers.

It’s Jews by the way that insist on circumcision not Christians.

I still see this as a well humoured discussion hence joining albeit late in the thread.

Was I referring to me being banned? No. Just that this topic has been hammered over so often it’s rather dull, IMHO. I assume I am allowed to make such a comment. It’s dull. You may disagree, but I wanted to state my opinion.

That’s your belief 😆

😆 500!

I’m just trying to illustrate that to some the Atheist view is equally as boring as that of God Botherers.

And? People aren’t atheists because they think it’ll interest people. You can be as bored by it as you like, no skin off our noses.

It’s Jews by the way that insist on circumcision not Christians.

And Nigerian Christians, it would seem. How very sad 🙁

Was I referring to me being banned? No. Just that this topic has been hammered over so often it’s rather dull, IMHO.

It has, but rarely has it being as civilised and open a discussion as this, I think this discussion has already got further than any before. We may even get to the Gnostic Heresy with a bad God!

has the Agnostic view ever been fundamentally hammered home as I’m trying to do

I think it has been discussed earlier. To add another quote:

“I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.”

Hence, Dawkins’ agnostic “sliding scale” discussed earlier.

Apologies to Cougar and any others. The more vocal atheists would hold to a mechanistic view. I shouldn’t have assumed all on this thread would as well. Given the dozen or so pages mostly ridiculing belief in the supernatural you’ll have to forgive me for being surprised at your willingness to accept the possibility of “more.”

I’m sometimes tempted to have a chat with the religious door-knockers but always think better of it and tell them that I’ve got my own beliefs thank you very much. Anyone ever had a proper chat with them without succumbing to insults or shoving them out of the door? I think I would struggle to hold myself together but it would be interesting. Think I’ll probably just stick to reading threads like these though…

It’s Jews by the way that insist on circumcision not Christians.

Oh dear. You need to do some more research. Ever wondered why genital mutilation is so widespread in the less educated parts of the US? The same parts that are deeply religious? Christianity has been promoting genital mutilation far and wide.

Well a fair bit actually. I don’t support homophobia, child genital mutilation, the suppression of females, I didn’t think much of Hitler, I don’t agree with that bloke who’s top banana of that Christian church banning contraception so leading to millions dying of AIDS…and all of these I’d be supporting if I joined up.

Oh dear, so many misconceptions here.

didn’t think much of Hitler

Can you think of any religion which perhaps might not have been so keen on Hitler either? Clue: It’s one of the monotheistic ones.

I don’t agree with that bloke who’s top banana of that Christian church banning contraception so leading to millions dying of AIDS

Are you conflating Catholicism and Christianity? Also there is no evidential link between the catholic teaching on contraception and the incidence of Aids, in Africa or anywhere else.
I also assume you must then approve of the church’s teaching against adultery and sex outside of marriage which would greatly reduce the incidence of Aids in Africa, if followed?

Christianity has been promoting genital mutilation far and wide.

Show us!

Read page one, read a bit in the middle, read this page. Do we know the answer yet?
Perhaps someone could do an excel table possibly with a chart.

“I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God.

But no one can prove there isn’t an elephant that turns pink and flies around in circles but only when not being watched or recorded!

Being unable to prove something doesn’t exists does not in any way shape or form give support for that thing.

Another question folks. I don’t believe in God as described in the bible, in fact I don’t believe in anything much, except that we should all be jolly nice to each other. However, I do feel slightly uncomfortable and vaguely guilty by saying that. There is part of me that feels wrong for not believing. Is this feeling what gets people going, or keeps them going with religion do you think?

Show us!

Good old missionaries

Are you conflating Catholicism and Christianity?

A quick Google shows that there are 2.1bn Christians in the world and 1.1bn Roman Catholics. So, a majority of Christians are Roman Catholics.

We’re getting into the realms of “oh but not all x believe this”, which is part of what makes it so impossible to ‘argue’ religion.

Charlie, I try not to speak on a subject I know faff all about (hint).

“”Jews, Muslims, and Christians all trace our spiritual heritage back to Abraham. Biblical circumcision begins with Abraham. No American government should restrict this historic tradition. Essential religious liberties are at stake.”

The National Association of Evangelicals

But no one can prove there isn’t an elephant that turns pink and flies around in circles but only when not being watched or recorded!

Being unable to prove something doesn’t exists does not in any way shape or form give support for that thing.

That’s what the second part of my quote was for. It was Bertrand Russell who said it, by the way, and it’s saying the same thing Dawkins says on the subject of whether he’s an atheist or an agnostic.

It wasn’t really aimed at you mike, just righting that wrong.

Bertrand Russel said what (do love a good quote, I save them for future use, sad or what?)?

A quick Google shows that there are 2.1bn Christians in the world and 1.1bn Roman Catholics. So, a majority of Christians are Roman Catholics.

We’re getting into the realms of “oh but not all x believe this”, which is part of what makes it so impossible to ‘argue’ religion.

You still can’t treat them as all the same, and further ,if you do, you (or others) cannot then use example of charisamtic and evangelical churches to argue against Christianity in general. Most more vocal christians you meet will not be Catholic. But this may be a separate thread as creationism is not part of the catholic doctrine.

That’s what the second part of my quote was for. It was Bertrand Russell who said it, by the way, and it’s saying the same thing Dawkins says on the subject of whether he’s an atheist or an agnostic.

And this is part of my issue with Dawkins, he doesn’t say anything which has not been said and refined by many others before him. Yet,there seem to be a generation who hold him in high esteem.

Bertrand Russell said: “I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.”

He said something similar in conjunction with his famous teapot: “I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.”

You still can’t treat them as all the same, and further ,if you do, you (or others) cannot then use example of charisamtic and evangelical churches to argue against Christianity in general. Most more vocal christians you meet will not be Catholic. But this may be a separate thread as creationism is not part of the catholic doctrine.

The thread’s rather moved on from creationism…

Perhaps when the various Christian churches have decided what is definitely true, we can start debating specifics? I’m reminded of this cartoon[/url] doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment.

Charlie, I try not to speak on a subject I know faff all about (hint).

Sorry, you need to be more explicit here. Are you suggesting i know faff all about religions?

“”Jews, Muslims, and Christians all trace our spiritual heritage back to Abraham. Biblical circumcision begins with Abraham. No American government should restrict this historic tradition. Essential religious liberties are at stake.”

The National Association of Evangelicals

Once again, with the minority fringe groups which pretty much only exist in one country. Hardly, warrant to say that this represents christianity as a whole