Cliff Richard's former flat complex searched in 80s Child Sex Abuse investigatio

but given that Led Zep spent the entire of the 70’s gleefully boffing everything that moved, all of whom willingly threw themselves at them, I doubt there’d be much sinister about it

In the cold light of day, a story about an underage girl off her face on drugs being abused with a swordfish, is a bit more than “rock and roll debauchery”.

A swordfish?

Don’t be disgusting, it was a Red Snapper.

oldboy – Member
There can’t be many TV or rock stars who shagged anything and everthing that came their way in the 60s/70s who aren’t expecting their time in court to come, can there?

I’ve been waiting for the entire Rolling Stones to get arrested…

Odd that people seem to overlook John Peel’s penchant for 15 year olds.

Is this that 1 single incident Julie Burchill wrote about? Or has more come to light?

Is this that 1 single incident Julie Burchill wrote about?

A 3 month affair with a 15 year old, who became pregnant? I suppose we can ignore it as he only did that once. Especially as he had a better taste in music than the other BBC DJ’s who we want to hang.

Not that I want to defend sex with underage girls, but I’m struggling with this belief that girls magically turn into woman on their sixteenth birthday.

Ie, if she’s 16 everything is perfectly fine and happy, you can be as debauched as you like, get married, get her pregnant, break out the whips and chains and Nutella, and no-one bats an eyelid; yet if she’s 15 years and eleven months old then he’s a nonce and everyone else is reaching for the pitchforks.

he had a better taste in music

You reckon?

if she’s 15 years and eleven months old then he’s a nonce

The definition of a paedophile is someone with a sexual attraction to prepubescent children.

The media seems to have changed this to mean being attracted to anyone below the age of consent. Not the same thing.

However, I would suggest it’s immoral for older men to exploit their fame and to have sex with very young girls. Dirty old men are dirty old men.

Unless you’re in Spain, when you’re only a paedo if she’s 12, or America when you’re still a paedo at 17 (depending on state).

A 3 month affair with a 15 year old, who became pregnant? I suppose we can ignore it as he only did that once.

That’s why I asked – never heard of that.

You reckon?

No doubt. He was the only one to play your crap anyway 😉

I love the way he seems offended that the cops didn’t make an appointment to search his gaff. What a dick.

Cougar – Moderator
…yet if she’s 15 years and eleven months old then he’s a nonce and everyone else is reaching for the pitchforks.

If you are older, then you should have the maturity to not shag if in doubt.

I grew up in the 60s and we knew to avoid children, we knew it was illegal, and had serious consequences.

There’s no excuses, 15 years and 11 months means you should display some maturity and wait a month.

We knew it then, we know it now.

I love the way he seems offended that the cops didn’t make an appointment to search his gaff. What a dick.

I think the point was that, while he might not have expected a warning, having the entire news media, including helicopters, ready and waiting as their little convoy headed in is possibly taking the piss.

The coppers must know they are not going to find anything relating to an incident in the 1980s in CR’s flat. The whole point of the exercise is the media circus. The police are hoping that the publicity draws out a few more allegations that they can stitch into some sort of credible case.

His reputation is completely trashed, whether this initial allegation has any truth in it or not. Perhaps he deserves it, and perhaps it’s the only way to convict the Stuart Halls and Rolf Harrises of this world, but I’m still uncomfortable with it.

If you are older, then you should have the maturity to not shag if in doubt.

Sure. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still pretty morally bankrupt; aside from anything else, it’s an abuse of power. My point was, as gobuchul said, it doesn’t sit easily with me that someone can go from fine upstanding citizen to kiddy fiddler for the sake of a couple of months either way on a partner’s age.

It’s essentially the speed limit argument again. We need to have a limit to (theoretically at least) protect young people from the likes of Savile. But it’s an arbitrary one-size-fits-all figure, you don’t just throw a switch on adulthood when you hit sixteen. I don’t doubt that some people are “mature” before their sixteenth birthday, and expect that similarly there’s plenty of folk who still aren’t well into their 20s.

There’s no excuses, 15 years and 11 months means you should display some maturity and wait a month.

This is what I’m getting at, really.

If you’re a fifty year old rock star (say), you probably shouldn’t be shagging a sixteen year old girl any more than one who’s fifteen and 11 months. That month is your “do not go to prison” card, but it doesn’t suddenly make it morally justifiable.

Ie, that one month makes sod all difference to anything at all beyond the possibility of legal action. It’s the sort of wooly thinking that empowers the Sun to work up its readers into a froth with their “SHE’S NEARLY LEGAL NOW LADS, WAYHAY!” countdown timers. Three days to go till you can shag Hermione! Only a week till this unknown with massive breasticles can get them out on Page 3!

FFS.

Mark E Smith 😆 has he punched you in the face Woppit

Cougar – Moderator
“If you are older, then you should have the maturity to not shag if in doubt.”
Sure. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still pretty morally bankrupt; aside from anything else, it’s an abuse…

From a more pragmatic viewpoint:

If you’re in a relationship with the girl, you’ll know her age and respect it.

If you’re just out for a shag, all the more reason to be careful. Underage kids loaded with hormones aren’t noted for discretion which is why we have these laws – to protect them.

There have been cases where people have been charged with sex with a minor (15) and the corruption of said minor. And the judge has thrown out the corruption charge due to the minor being “no stranger to cock”.

The age of consent is to protect minors from adults so if a 15 year old of dubious reputation came on to you as an adult you should say no out of moral decency aswell as it being the law even if she looks 18.

And I think a 16 year old is to young for any one over the age of very early twenties in my mind.
But at 18 you have to accept they are an adult and if only because they are free to make there own mistakes I think age difference is no longer an issue.

These are only my views.

It’s essentially the speed limit argument again. We need to have a limit to (theoretically at least) protect young people from the likes of Savile. But it’s an arbitrary one-size-fits-all figure, you don’t just throw a switch on adulthood when you hit sixteen. I don’t doubt that some people are “mature” before their sixteenth birthday, and expect that similarly there’s plenty of folk who still aren’t well into their 20s.

In some countries the age difference is also taken into consideration – a 16-year-old with a 15-year-old is very different to a 35-year-old with a 15-year-old.

The cases which are really wrong are the ones where an underage girl is charged with distributing child pornography for sexting pictures of herself.

It’s very complex, and a cut-and-dried age of consent doesn’t help – it leads to things like the Sun’s countdown to when Charlotte Church was legal.

I don’t doubt that some people are “mature” before their sixteenth birthday, and expect that similarly there’s plenty of folk who still aren’t well into their 20s.

Aye, I’m sure there’s plenty of 16, 17 18 yo who are probably still a bit immature to make proper decisions about sex. Also I think a sliding scale may be more applicable, 16 with a 17yo fair enough, 16 and a 50yo something fairly wrong there but 16 and early twenties still seems not quite right. At that age a couple of years difference is a lot. As cougar says a young person hits their 16th birthday and suddenly it’s open season and anything goes….that makes me pretty uncomfortable.

Especially when our attitude to sex and sex education isn’t really all that great

it leads to things like the Sun’s countdown to when Charlotte Church was legal.

Never happened.

The Sun is a shitty newspaper but this is one thing it got the blame for off a Guardian journo that never really happened.

Read this.

Broadsheet journalist telling lies! Who would of thought that? 🙄

Didn’t know that. This is real though?

The Sun is a shitty newspaper

As I said. I don’t buy tabloids. Don’t buy many papers.

However, as I wrote earlier:

The definition of a paedophile is someone with a sexual attraction to prepubescent children.

The media seems to have changed this to mean being attracted to anyone below the age of consent. Not the same thing.

I would also suggest that the picture suggests that those 2 articles were next to each other in the paper, I bet not.

I am not sticking up for NI here, just highlighting how all media is biased.

In no way am I defending under age sex, it is legally and morally wrong.

But it’s worth bearing in mind that the age of consent at 16 is relatively new (Victorian?), British (other developed nations have higher and lower ages) and therefore arbitrary figure.

It also is out of step with various other age restrictions in the UK. You can marry, have sex and kids at 16, but not drive, vote, drink, enter various legally binding contracts, watch or make porn, and now you are expected to be in school and/or training till you are 18.

The whole age of majority mess needs harmonising. Not sure whether everything should go up to 18 or down to 16.

Edit- also agree that the definition of paedophilia is grossly misunderstood by the press, public and internet hardmen. Several friends of mine have relationships with big age gaps, none were underage, none are Jimmy Saville.

16 and early twenties still seems not quite right.

I am going to go out on a limb here.

A 16 old girl is physically mature enough to have sex. And I will accept an argument that they are probably not emotionally mature enough to have sex if you accept an argument that neither are most 20year old men.

Never happened.

Just checked. It was the Daily / Sunday Sport that did the Page 3 countdown, with a then-15 Linsey Dawn McKenzie.

neither are most 20year old men

FTFY 😉

I am going to go out on a limb here.

A 16 old girl is physically mature enough to have sex.

You’re going to have to qualify that I think, I’m not sure where you’re going with it.

You’re physically mature enough to have sex after puberty, pretty much by definition. Emotional maturity comes much later (assuming it arrives at all…)

The whole age of majority mess needs harmonising. Not sure whether everything should go up to 18 or down to 16.

I always thought it was a bit odd that you could have sex legally at sixteen, but had to wait another two years before you could watch someone else do it.

Could there be any truth in allegations that Elm Guest House is linked to snuff movies?

Also 16 year olds and twenty year old could move in the same circles so it would not be uncommon to make a connection.

Where a 40 year and 16 year , the forty year old probably went out of there way to make it happen

Broadsheet journalist telling lies! Who would of thought that?

In wholly unrelated news, I met her last weekend. She didn’t strike me as the sort of person who would lie intentionally for sensationalism reasons.

IIRC John Peel has said in interviews that when he was working in America he routinely had sex with underage girls.

Edit: yup, including regularly with a 13 year old. He also described himself as abusing them.

http://www.express.co.uk/expressyourself/350473/The-DJs-who-thought-they-could-get-away-with-anything

A 16 old girl is physically mature enough to have sex. And I will accept an argument that they are probably not emotionally mature enough to have sex if you accept an argument that neither are most 20year old men.

Chip that’s part of the problem, at any age some will be very mature for their age others will be very immature which is why an arbitrarily defined age limit line in the sand between don’t touch and knock yourself out isn’t really all that great.

And I’m sure it’s not just older males preying on younger females, I know how strongly you feel about sexual equality

She didn’t strike me as the sort of person who would lie intentionally for sensationalism reasons.

However, she did write this. Which simply is not true, but is quite provocative.

Charlotte Church was 15 years old when Britain’s best-read daily newspaper began a public countdown to the day on which she could be legally ****.

Also 16 year olds and twenty year old could move in the same circles

hmm 16yo at school, playing on the street, living with parents vs 20yo working, out in pubs, living in own house?

Like I said it varies a lot person to person

So if we don’t have a set age, who decides if your mature or not.

At 16 I had 20 year friends, at twenty I had 16 friends.

At the age of 19 I had a girl of 15 knock on my front door who I had only met once before previously.
Now at 15 she was a fine figure of a young woman.
Anyway she knocked on my door and on opening said she was going to suck me dry.
Now people I knew at the time would have invited her in an closed the door, I stepped out and closed the door behind me. Went for a walk and basically asked her what are you like.

I did this because, maybe some what I knew she was 15 but mainly because based on both meetings I saw her as damaged ( I am not trying to be derogatory with that statement) and thought I would be taking advantage of the situation.

I saw her 5 years later with someone else in a pub looking absolutely beautiful and I did kick my self a little bit.

But at 19 I did not look at her at 15 as a child but as a peer, a peer who was under the age of consent.

It is complex but a line has to be drawn in the sand to make an initial arrest possible and then digression will be the the job of the CPS or the courts .

Anyway she knocked on my door and on opening said she was going to suck me dry.

Don’t worry, they can’t cross the threshold unless you invite them.

Don’t worry, they can’t cross the threshold unless you invite them.

Could there be any truth in allegations that Elm Guest House is linked to snuff movies?

Could there be? Sure, anything on the David Icke forums could be possible.