Chris Horner on la Vuelta

Edukator – They don’t reveal that in the UK. In France there is full disclosure of every single investigation and the outcome. I guess they view clearing people to be as important as finding them guilty. That was 400 investigations in total BTW, not just against cyclists. Of the 43 against cyclists, 35 were sanctioned in some way. That said, we know Bassons got a ban for missing a test at an MTB event so there’s some latitude in there too.

In France there is full disclosure of every single investigation and the outcome

No there isn’t, it’s generally only the dealers that are named and prosecuted. Try to find who Christophe Dupouey was selling to when he was prosecuted for dealing performance enhancing drugs, you’ll fail.

Edukator – I mean full disclosure of who is being investigated and what the outcome has been. Try and find most other federations doing that. There aren’t many.

Fantombiker – Member
A rider in a European team told me Horner weighs 60kg, therefore he has great power to weight…a key part of his success.

I think that he has always been good, but now its a (more) level playing field and the real talent shines through.

Problem with this is the team are telling everyone he’s heavier than that (62/3kg IIRC) because that makes his W/Kg figure look more credible…

I’d have thought it possible to work out if the published weight, and hence w/kg, was credible based on his performance on the climb as VAM and w/kg are linked. Appreciate there are lots of variables and estimations that go into these calculations, though 3kg is a big chunk of weight!

A public spirited need to help the hard of thinking?

your pithy comment completely undermined by the very next post from Atlaz. If you dont like the debate dont join it. Do you tell groups of people having a conversation that theyre stupid face to face, or just on the internet?

Graeme Obree sets new world speed record for prone cycling at age 48… any suspicions – lol

I don’t think they’ve put marmalade sandwiches on the banned list yet (though it’s possible Citalopram might be)

pas normal

He was 9 th in a grand tour riding for some else

Which rider was it he was riding for? Oh.

Junkyard – lazarus
right so it s no longer the training he did for the tour but the rest he had oh and being skinny
I fear you may be clutching at straws a tad here.

(apologies for the late rise Junky:

Nah, I think I’ve tried to be balanced – give it a go 😉

see, I actually said “time to prepare“, not “the training” and I also said “Who knows whether either or both was off his tits on epo for all that training (I admit, I used the word there, but then even 4 weeks out of compo and fully fit must be quite a luxury) or if just the length of time was the key” though I also said “who knows what “not really training” involved in terms of level of effort“
however, knock yourself out, I don’t care that much – as you’ll remember, I also said “no axe to grind either way”

Apparently Horner has published all his power data and biological passport data on his website. Fair play to him though will probably just be fuel to the fire.

The cynic would say publishing data just means that Horner has confidence in nothing being detected from the data, not necessarily that all variables to refute/ establish cheating are covered. So long as you keep things under accepted limits no-one can complain. Now… how these generally accepted limits of physiology and performance presumably set to someone much younger in their prime relate to that of a much older man who knows???

I do feel sorry for anyone riding clean as you can’t win either way!!!

Apparently he’s not published the data for the period immediately before or during the Vuelta. Although this might not be the truth as I’ve not had a chance to check.

A quick look at Google news reveals that as yet he’s yet to be signed by any team. You’d think they’d all be falling over themselves to sign such an exceptional grand tour winner…

Unless they know something that we don’t, or don’t want to risk a future embarrassment.

Problem is no matter what he does some folk will just be suspicious * like they will with Froome
Personally I doubt anyone knows the passport stuff well enough to say either way – well not on here anyway.
IIRC even Wiggos passport had some suspicion in the TdF so even if there is none some will think that is suspicious

I think I’ve tried to be balanced – give it a go

Doffs cap 😀
* I am one and no matter what happens it remains an incredible feat for an elder peleton rider with limited pedigree. Given the ignoble history of the sport he will be under doubt IMHO

Interesting article, perhaps worthy of consideration….

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/what-effect-does-age-really-have-on-cycling-performance/

At the end of the day no one really knows what’s possible, would the Olympians of 100 years ago (bad example maybe….) have considered today’s records feasible, I doubt it.

The reality is that only minimal physiological declines occur before about 50 years of age, particularly when we’re talking about an athlete’s musculature. Any declines in athletic potential and performance that happen until that point are largely due to a drop in the athlete’s VO2max.

One wonders why no physically demanding sport has 48 year old world champions then and why the vast majority retire in mid to late 30’s if not earlier – look at gymnasts?

FWIW was there not an awesome female rider in her 50’s French perhaps Olympian?? Anyone know for certain

Golf does not count OK!

junkyard, do you mean jeannie longo?

Good rider.

On drugs…..

Did you keep reading, it had a few theories which seemed plausible, ish.

Peaty is an amazing example of what’s possible when most would have retired, he’s still beating young ‘uns despite being old enough to have fathered ’em. DH racing at that level is a mixture of extreme skillz, fitness and raw power but also a huge shed load of head **** thrown in for good measure, to be still mastering it at his age speaks volumes about the man I reckon.

cheers aa I did and that did not work as an example then did it

Anyone know of any example of a 40 + athlete dominating ?

Malcolm Elliot perhaps?

Anyone know of any example of a 40 + athlete dominating ?

Looking at what he dominated, a lot of the better riders there were off form having had quite long seasons and using the Vuelta a way of finding some form for the worlds. He’d targeted this race and was well rested. He took his chance very well and if that had been the Giro or the Tour he’d be way down.

Rather intriguing that he’s not got a team for next year though.

Was about to post…then remembered its a modern metaphor for pissing in to the wind.

Anyone know of any example of a 40 + athlete dominating ?

I’m doing my first tri on Sunday, so I’ll let you know. Hopefully it’ll be what you want to hear. 🙂

DD, over 40?

#lookinggoodforanoldman
😉

DD, over 40?

#lookingroughforanoldman
😉

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Harris

British sprint title at 54.

Could it be a case of seeing the effect of rest of the field coming off the drugs? If he’s been clean all the while and used to running clean, as well as being relatively fresh from his early season injury, maybe that was just enough to tip the balance and enable him to take advantage over the rest as they acclimatise to being clean. You can’t just come off drugs without suffering some form of negative physical and mental affect, and will take time for them to get used to their natural performance potential and adjusting their training accordingly. Since the processes to detect drug use have been found out to be completely and utterly ineffective, maybe the ultimate test to determine those who have been riding clean is to look at those who before have not finished anywhere and are suddenly being promoted up the field.

There has been some over 40 boxing champions, George Foreman and Bernard Hopkins spring to mind, although I suspect boxing isn’t a shining example of clean sports.

How old was Redgrave when he won his last gold?

Anyone know of any example of a 40 + athlete dominating ?

Are ultra-athletes of various disciplines not generally in the Horner age range? It is probably a better comparison that to gymnasts and suck like as above but still… winning a grand tour requires a great deal of speed not just endurance

Ultra running is an interesting one. A developing sport that anecdotally suits the older athlete.

But that spandex loving Spanish guy is 25, last years winner of the Western States was 29. But then Matt Carpenter set the Leadville record at 42 (?).

How much of the thinking that older geezers and geezerettes are good at it is down to who the sport is popular with?

I think there is some truth to this as runners naturally migrate towards the longer distances (5k, through 10k, half marathon to marathon) as their careers progress. There do seem to be limits to this though. Gabreselassie is still bloody quick at 40, I think 3rd in the Great North Run recently, but then he is one of the greatest of all time!

Edit: I suspect ultrarunning is not a great basis on which to draw conclusions as it’s a bit too niche.