Charlottesville

As much as it pains me to say it, I broadly agree with ninfan; you either censor nothing, or you censor everything.

This idea got a lot of attention after Charlie Hebdo along with a lot of tosh about freedom of speech. There is no such thing as freedom of speech or the notion of censoring nothing or everything. We have legal, informal and cultural limitations on both for obvious reasons. We live with considerable restrictions on what we can and can’t say and as we see here and in all areas of life there is unlikely to complete consistently of applications – what some deem worthy of censorship or freedom is very different from others. Again look ^

Odd that we seem to live in a parallel universe where this is forgotten. Do we just feel better for pretending that FoS exists or do we actually believe it?

Did trump just say there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville … Nazis are good people ??

No, he specifically said excluded Nazis and white supremacists from that, saying they should be condemned… but I suppose you didn’t bother actually watching and listening to that bit did you?

ff a nazi was near me and he was suggesting lynching or slavery were appropriate then yes a swift smack in the mouth seems proportional to me.

Funny that, because if you were near me and suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate then I’d run you over with my car to get away from you

Punching people isn’t the solution. That’s just vigilantism, and when people start taking the law into their own hands things don’t end well. It also helps the alt right paint themselves (incorrectly) as martyrs.
There’s no reason you can’t deal with these people legally. Germany has well established laws which ban National Socialist organisations and prohibit Nazi salutes and the use of Nazi symbolism. Anyone behaving like the Charlottesville clowns in Germany would get the book thrown at them.

There’s no reason you can’t deal with these people legally. Germany has well established laws which ban National Socialist

Given that this did not occur in Germany what should the residents of Charlottesville have done?

Given that this did not occur in Germany what should the residents of Charlottesville have done?

Tolerate other people’s lawful expression of free speech?

Funny that, because if you were near me and suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate then I’d run you over with my car to get away from you

Welll at least you’re not threatening to sexually assault his mother.

Yet.

suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate then I’d run you over with my car.

You are just so classy you my hero.

Seriously, are you **** in the head? Is there no depth you wont stoop to in pursuit of whatever gets you a rise?

I’m definitely out.

No, he specifically said excluded Nazis and white supremacists from that

So non white supremacist & Nazis turn up to a rally run for & by white supremacist & Nazis!?

That’d be the same (not) Nazis complaining about pictures of them at said rally going viral then.

He’s just pandering to his far right core, but we all knew that

Ah, right Metalheart, so it’s OK to delibaretly punch people in the face cause you don’t like them, but not ok to run them over on the same basis?

lefties do have some standards after all then.

in all areas of life there is unlikely to complete consistently of application

?
I suggest unlikely to be complete consistency of application might fit
But …Get thee to Specsavers thm

I’d run you over with my car to get away from you

Good luck with that. If you werent a nazi you wouldnt need to worry.

I don’t understand why ninfan isn’t banned.

I don’t understand why ninfan isn’t banned

Freedom of speech, innit.

Ninfan still waiting for any evidence of your claim that the driver was trying to get away from the counter protesters.

Funny that, because if you were near me and suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate then I’d run you over with my car to get away from you

You keep saying this, as if you actually believe that the fascist driving the car was trying to get away from violent protestors trying to punch him in the mouth, am I right?
So, how come the rather excellent video footage from behind the group of peaceful protesters clearly shows a grey Dodge Challenger driving at speed, with no other vehicle anywhere near it, straight into the back of those walking in the same direction it was going, then, having killed one innocent woman, and mutilating a couple of dozen others, reverses back up the same empty street, at high speed, with the front end smashed and hanging off.
Please, let’s see you maintain that the fascist driver was driving away, and got hit from behind by another vehicle driving away, when there’s clear and unequivocal video from a reputable news source, CNN as it happens, that proves otherwise.
[Edit] By the way, if you’re a drunk American making Nazi salutes in Germany, you get punched in the mouth; would you condone that American deliberately driving over innocent people while getting away as justified?
Bearing in mind his behaviour is illegal…
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/drunken-american-beaten-up-for-giving-nazi-salute-in-germany

Let’s see what comes out at court, eh?

Put up or shut up.

Let’s see what comes out at court, eh?

I agree with Zulu eleven…

I really need a shower now

Still no sign of this though “stories coming out now that his car had been surrounded by antifa protesters attacking him and he was trying to get away. Unverified but seems like a realistic scenario.”

“Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist, killing one ****-lover named Heather Heyer. James Fields hail victory. It’s men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again.”

I don’t understand why ninfan isn’t banned
Freedom of speech, innit.

Tough this FoS idea isn’t it?

Let’s see what comes out at court, eh?

I don’t think the outcome will be in debate.
Well other than by you, who seems to be able to justify pretty much any act of abhorrent behaviour.
Bugger, the video doesn’t want to play, here’s another link:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/watch/videos-show-car-crash-into-protesters/vp-AApVDzL

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article167303682.html
Have found Ninfan’s identity?

Let’s see what comes out at court, eh?

I’ll hold you to that, the next time you call terrorism on a bombing.

This was Ninfans response to the “Ban the Burqa” thread

Isn’t equality about treating everyone the same?

He then posted pictures of no smoking cigarette and no helmet signs.

*deadpan sarcastic monotone voice ON* He is clearly a man who believes in freedom of speech and religious expression.

Are we all agreed then, that Jambaliar and Ninfan are closet Fascists – who hide behind tenants of Freedom of Speech, albeit be they poorly understood on their part, when it suits them. So that they may attack and undermine their enemy “the left”? They are the types of people, who would like nothing more than to exploit the mechanisms of democracy at a time and place that suits them – and then once their political enemies have been destroyed, they would either seek to or support the destruction of democracy itself.

In short, they are traitors.

I’m having a lot of fun with you rank amateurs. **** me, judging by the boasts of some of you being “Oxbridge”, I’ve woefully undersold myself. I should have become a **** PR goon for the Labour party.

Are we all agreed then, that Jambaliar and Ninfan are closet Fascists – who hide behind tenants of Freedom of Speech, albeit be they poorly understood on their part, when it suits them. So that they may attack and undermine their enemy “the left”? They are the types of people, who would like nothing more than to exploit the mechanisms of democracy at a time and place that suits them – and then once their political enemies have been destroyed, they would either seek to or support the destruction of democracy itself.

Mmmmm, yeah, seems about right.
Although, extremists at the other end of the spectrum are effectively indistinguishable when it comes to their aims and the way they go about achieving them, thinking particularly of the Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, Sendero Luminoso, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin…

Nor is it backed up by data on political violence. Of at least 372 murders that were committed by domestic extremists between 2007 and 2016, according to a study by the Anti-Defamation League, 74 percent were committed by right-wing extremists. Muslim extremists were responsible for 24 percent of those killings, and the small remainder were committed by left-wing extremists, the study concluded.

Ninfan and Jambaliar are extremists, who adhere to a doctrine more dangerous than Islamism.

I think the Americans should consider banning the use of encryption by known alt-righters and start something akin to the PREVENT program to re-educate them.

If it’s good enough for Islam, it’s good enough for them.

I don’t understand why ninfan isn’t banned

On what grounds should we ban him?

As I said earlier, holding unpopular opinions isn’t grounds for censorship. That’s a bad precedence to be setting.

re-educate them

Ah, lefties and their fascination with re-education camps, plus ca change.

Cougar, obviously I should be banned for condemning violence, and incitement to violence, by both sides. Aparrently I’m supposed to only criticise violence by the Nazi’s, because somehow Nazi violence is inherently worse than the righteous violence of the anti-Nazis, and only a Nazi would condemn all violence, or think that free speech applies to all.

Frankly, I think it’s hilarious the number of people on here who hold themselves to be some sort of paragons of equality and tolerance, whose mask has slipped by condoning physical violence against people they don’t like. The true double standards and hypocrisy of the ‘tolerant left’

Do you really want me to dig up either yours or Jambaliars support for the PREVENT program.

I mean, do I really have to waste the energy or do eithet of you just want to come clean?

I know one of you does, but you two are so similar I sometimes mistake you for being the same poster.

ff a nazi was near me and he was suggesting lynching or slavery were appropriate then yes a swift smack in the mouth seems proportional to me.

Funny that, because if you were near me and suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate then I’d run you over with my car to get away from you[/quote]

Am I misreading this? You’re literally admitting to being a Nazi – you replied to: (if a nazi was near me… a swift smack in the mouth seems proportional | if you were near me and suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate). And then in the context of this discussion where someone has been killed by a car you’re positing running over someone for their difference of opinion?

Guys, Ninfans a victim now. Hes been….. OPPRESSED.

Cougar – Moderator

On what grounds should we ban him?

I think a lot of people believe he’s only takes these positions to troll people, and that of course is against the rules.

Me, I think he’s genuine- which is definitely worse, it’s just not against the rules.

Cougar, obviously I should be banned for condemning violence, and incitement to violence, by both sides. Aparrently I’m supposed to only criticise violence by the Nazi’s, because somehow Nazi violence is inherently worse than the righteous violence of the anti-Nazis, and only a Nazi would condemn all violence, or think that free speech applies to all.

As far as I can tell from the discussion here, no-one’s suggesting that you should or shouldn’t “only criticise violence by the Nazi’s.” Rather the criticism here is that that you probably shouldn’t be making excuses for them.

I think a lot of people think he’s only takes these positions to troll people, and that of course is against the rules.

Entirely possible, a lot of the old hands are so very very good at walking the line.

Me, I think he’s genuine- which is definitely worse, it’s just not against the rules.

Welcome to my world.

because somehow Nazi violence is inherently worse than the righteous violence of the anti-Nazis.

A fair summary of WW2

A fair summary of WW2

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Is that another whatabout?

I love how the best you could come up with, instead of say a robust denial of being a PREVENT supporter, is a random link to the Katyn massacre.

Imho, being a nazi is a beyond daft.
Hitler was wrong about everything and genetically they’re painting themselves into a corner (much like our aristocracy).

Also, I wouldn’t disagree with the ‘fear of the next reincarnation’ thing.

My theory is that beginner souls are given five or six lives before they get a chance to make any assessments or reflections on them, kind of crash-bang-wallop-bush-bash-bosh.

So your racist cop has been given an easy life to start with (badge and gun included!), but they’re also ‘ peering into the abyss’ of their future incarnations, so connected are they.

Or maybe it is just pe£is-envy!