Cause for concern?

Halfwit is only an insult if its untrue.

So in fact you can’t support the hypocrisy accusation then?

Grumm : Halfwit is only an insult if its untrue, otherwise its decriptive.

RE : Hypocrisy, so you can’t support that one then?

mt – Member
G Perhaps Tyger is signed up to the underlying principles of his faith not it’s corrupted manifestations

So why sign up to it. There is little or no need to, and as he has already aluuded to, your belief system is a personal matter, and its perfectly possible to be a GB on your own, in fact its strongly arguable that its preferable.

Grumm : Halfwit is only an insult if its untrue, otherwise its decriptive.

RE hypocrisy, I’ll take it that you can’t back that up then?

MT :

G Perhaps Tyger is signed up to the underlying principles of his faith not it’s corrupted manifestations.

So why sign up to it then? As I think hes already alluded to, your belief system is a personal matter surely. No reason to be in a big outfit to be Christian if thats what you chose to do. Surely if you sign up to an outfit you are doing so with warts and all, or did we hang all those Nazi’s at Nuremberg wrongly, and they were after all only believing the goods bits?

Poxy forum

Personally I have far more respect for someone who has formulated their own worldview and set of values through their interaction with other human beings, than anyone who buys into a pre-ordained set of beliefs. I’d even go so far as to say that it’s better to be confused and scared than cling to the comforting blanket of ignorance that religion can provide.

However this isn’t about religion generally, it’s about one specific part of a single religion. I have no time for religion but I’d support people’s right to fritter away their own lives in whatever way they see fit, as long as it doesn’t impose on anyone else.

The fact that some people, like the knuckle-draggers in the BNP, are determined to stamp out this freedom makes me feel that it’s all the more important that it should be protected. There are people out there, on both sides, who think we should be gearing up for some kind of war with our fellow citizens, and that makes me feel pretty sick.

The further fact that we’re a liberal society, with a sound legal framework that protects the rights of everyone unless they choose to waive that entitlement, leads me to think that it’s better to have a system that dove-tails the rules insular communities might be applying to themselves with the over-arching ones that we all have to abide by.

Poxy halfwit doubleposters.

Now thats fair : Accolade accepted 😆

So G, what’s your problem with the Roman Catholic Church then? Oh! Wait, you weren’t one of Father Murphy’s choir boys per chance 😛

G – I supose that you have come to a point were Tyger must be wrong because you believe you are right, faith it’s called. Death will be the proof of the rights or wrongs of all of this discussion. Hope your right G cause it’s not going to be nice, do you listen to Old Harrys Game on radio 4. If not then you should, hell is not going to be fun especially for those that think the devil don’t exist, for some reason he does not like that. Ask Scumsporn.

No, strangely I quite respect where tyger is coming from and if that works for him its fine. Really I’m just empahasising that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. The Muslims believe what they believe, and the Christians their particular flavour. Not my right to judge them for that, but hey that takes us right back to the start of the thread. If they beleive that Sharia Law is right for them, in the context its being applied in the UK, well thats as reasonable as tygers position on faith surely? No one really has the right to object to it.

The major problem is is that the likes of Denis MacEoin and the Daily Mail are rable rousing and causing hatred toward Islam with the slant they are putting on Sharia Law, and then gullible people are taking it on board from a position of ignorance and believing the piffle they are being fed.

Our legal systemn developed from Sharia Law, as did most legal systems in the world, to write off the whole concept becuase of the interpretations and excesses of a few is therefore no different to writing off our legal system becuase the Yanks still have the death penalty,

A clue is that you should not base a view of 1 – 1.8 billion people on the actions of a very small number of extremists.

So signing up to a homophobic, child molesting, lying, thieving, cherating organisation is a good thing??

The difference is that I wasn’t making crass generalisations about all of Islam, merely saying that there is a significant and growing radical fundamentalist movement within world Islam, which is something almost no-one except you would seem to argue with. You on the other hand are quite happy to make crass generalisations about Christian churches.

And calling me a halfwit because I don’t agree with your hysterical nonsense is a bit rich.

1 – 1:8 billion people i.e. individuals : Each church = one organisation

I don’t believe that makes me a generalist, in fact my whole point in respect of tyger is I have no real issue with the individual, its the collective that I have a problem with. Specifically in relation to the fact that Homophobia is part of the structure of the institution, child abuse likewise, as is thieving, lying and cheating, that in essence is what they teach.

Regarding Islam and Sharia Law, I think you’ll find my approach is consistent, in that what I was saying is that you can’t make sweeping assumptions about the religion, because of the abuses by individuals and not, the overall organisation, i.e. its the interpretation of individuals and sects, not the organisation per se.

Try to grasp that subtle difference.

G, how do you think swine flu sits with Islam or Judaism? I thought these are religions that can’t have anything to do with pigs as they’re unclean?

Very confused 🙄

Well that is an intersting point TS, given that being with Pig so to speak makes you unclean. Accordingly, as Swine Flu is supposed to have in fact come from pigs in Mexico, I guess that if you contract it and you are Muslim or Jewish, then I guess you are by association unclean too. However, as good Christians/Atheists etc you need not worry my son, whilst your shit will certainly be liquid it shall not smell 8)

Specifically in relation to the fact that Homophobia is part of the structure of the institution, child abuse likewise, as is thieving, lying and cheating, that in essence is what they teach.

Who is ‘they’? Every church everywhere in the world? You sound more and more deranged with each post.

Regarding Islam and Sharia Law, I think you’ll find my approach is consistent, in that what I was saying is that you can’t make sweeping assumptions about the religion, because of the abuses by individuals and not, the overall organisation, i.e. its the interpretation of individuals and sects, not the organisation per se.

So if a Muslim does something unpleasant and justifies it as part of their faith, it’s just a few bad apples and not indicative of any wider problems within Islam, whereas when a Christian does it, it’s indicative of institutionalised abuse in every church everywhere.

Again, superb logic there. 😕

Hello again G hope your not bored, you made a comment regarding UK law is developed from Sharia law. Could you please explain this, thanks.

Just look it up on wikipedia – that’s the extent of his knowledge about it.

Grumm : Deranged?? ….. Perverse maybe, but no not deranged.

Like I said try to grasp it, its probably a bit hard for you I know, but do please try.

I have never specified any flavour of God Botherer on the Christian side of the equation. To suggest that I have is simply wrong, all I am saying is that many of the denominations are personified by their behaviour in these ways, as institutions, not the individuals.

Yesterday, in respect of Sharia Law, what I was saying was that overall Sharia Law and Islam are not bad things per se. It is however relatively small sects and individuals that are being used to tar the whole thing. So in essence that would be like saying all Christians are bad people because of the behaviour of the Pope for example.

So lets be clear I am not saying that, I am saying however, that many Christian institutions themselves are tainted, e.g. with paedophilia. There is strong evidence to support the notion that it was well known within the Catholic Church, but the church covered it up and allowed it to continue and was therefore complicit. On the other hand with Islam, there is equally strong evidence that a ) the Vast majority are not extremist (self evidently because they then wouldn’t be extreme then would they?), b) the organised Muslim religions in the main do not support extremism.

Finally lets be clear the conversation yesterday was about Islam and Sharia Law as a whole, and not individual sects and interpretations. The conversation today is about individual Christians and Christian sects as opposed to Christianity per se. Now can you see the difference?

Yes very intertesting now tell me about the development of the law stuff.

Yep:

Sharia Law is the oldest known legal structure on the western hemisphere of the planet, it was used by and modifed by the following civilisations up to and including the Romans, who again took the best of it and modified it to suit their needs, and so on and so forth up until the present day. If you check it out you will find much of that passing forward was done via the religious bodies of the day. Thus the close relationships between religion and the law.

Grumm : Nope its not, although I’m not above having a look at online resources, hope theres not a problem with that, otherwise half the world is properly ****! As it happens I was born into a strongly religious family, and grew up as a botherer. About the time of puberty Istarted picking up on the flwas in the system and rejected it, and have subsequently read , studied and visited many other countries and their religious institutions and beliefs, I do not claim to be an expert, but I would admit to having an open mind on religion.

On the other hand with Islam, there is equally strong evidence that a ) the Vast majority are not extremist (self evidently because they then wouldn’t be extreme then would they?), b) the organised Muslim religions in the main do not support extremism.

Just like there is strong evidence to suggest that the vast majority of Catholics are not paedophiles. I also don’t see many Catholic priests openly supporting paedophilia, unlike some imams who openly call for, eg homosexuals and apostates to be killed.

Your logic is utterly flawed, though I see the attempts to be patronising are still going strong.

I am certainly no particular fan of the Catholic or any other church, but your ludicrous generalisations about them are at least as bad as any Daily Mail article about Islam.

As it happens I was born into a strongly religious family, and grew up as a botherer.

Aha, now it all makes perfect sense.

Just like there is strong evidence to suggest that the vast majority of Catholics are not paedophiles

and just like I didn’t say they were, merely that the institution allowed it to happen and were therefore complicit. And going right back to Tyger if you care to read what I said, thats why I was questioning his need to join an organised religion.

unlike some imams who openly call for, eg homosexuals and apostates to be killed.

However, as I have already explained at length that is not to say that Islam per se is doing so, in fact if you care to read up on it you will find, that taken literally the religion actually forbids it, should you choose to interpret it that way. So much as though shalt not kill has never stopped the Christians from doing exactly that, similarly there are elements within Islam that similarly pervert the original teachings. Now this is the nitty gritty bit, so listen carefully …. I reckon there are 3 levels of religion. Which are the core religion, i.e. Islam, Christianity, Buddism, etc etc, then there are individual sects, or interpretations of the core religion, i.e Catholicism, or Sunni and then there are the individuals.

I am have never criticised Christianity per se or for that matter Islam. I have however criticised individual sects and will continue to do so, and as far as individuals are concerned, I don’t think they can taint the core religion, but pretty much all of the sects are formed to pander to someones ego as an individual and that’s why they are so crap.

I see the attempts to be patronising are still going strong.

That Grumm is because you make it so difficult for me not to 😉

I am have never criticised Christianity per se

I think you’re referring to the Roman Catholic Church there G?

TS : Nope, pretty much the whole lot.

Isn’t this about time that you two stop fighting, gaze into each other’s eyes and then kiss? 🙂

No, that would be illegal under the sharia law we now have in this country and we would be stoned to death. 🙂

Is getting stoned illegal under Sharia law???!!!

grumm – Member

I am have never criticised Christianity per se

I think you’re referring to the Roman Catholic Church there G?

TS : Nope, pretty much the whole lot.

And you ask why I’m patronising to you FFS ?? Read the **** post you halfwit…..

I have however criticised individual sects and will continue to do so,

:

I reckon there are 3 levels of religion. Which are the core religion, i.e. Islam, Christianity, Buddism, etc etc, then there are individual sects, or interpretations of the core religion, i.e Catholicism, or Sunni and then there are the individuals.

So in what way are those 3 quotes you’ve highlighted at odds with what I’ve said then???

Mr Agreeable – Member
Isn’t this about time that you two stop fighting

Shhhh …..keep this between us and specially don’t tell grumm, but I’m having way too much fun winding him up 😉

tankslapper – Member
Is getting stoned illegal under Sharia law???!!!

I think you’ll be needing the door marked Rastaferian with herbal smells eminating forth, and while you are there if you bump into Grumm try to get him to see the light will yer?

Oh so you admit to being a troll then? Ok, well done. 😕

Seems like you are the one getting wound up btw.

Game over. 🙂

I never said I was a troll! I’m totally behind every word I’ve said, it just amuses me how up tight you are getting about it, and the inability to grasp what is being said, but then at the outset I couldn’t really understand what the issue was over Sharia Law as being introduced in the UK. However, you have sucessfully overcome that particular lack of understanding for me.

G – Member

…..it just amuses me how up tight you are getting ….

Posted 57 minutes ago

G – Member

And you ask why I’m patronising to you FFS ?? Read the **** post you halfwit…..

Posted 1 hour ago

You are a hypocrite G. That special kind of ‘liberal hypocrite’. The type which I associate with many Guardian readers.

You say all the right stuff – all the ‘politically correct’ stuff. Liberal stuff – about race, sexuality, religion, and sexism.

But all you are doing is masking your own latent prejudices. Prejudices which you know are unacceptable, and which you fear.

I bet when you talk to a black person you pretend that you haven’t noticed they are black. I bet you make severely disabled people feel invisible. I bet, that you don’t feel comfortable and able to be yourself, in the presence of people whom you feel are likely to be victims of prejudice.

………. all imo – of course.

I can confirm G isn’t a troll – he may fit that description on 15 pints when trying to have a passport picture taken – but he’s no troll.

That said I think Grumm’s efforts have been quite spectacularly troll like and he would certainly win the ‘wind-up’medal in my book! 😀

Now stop pansy footing around and tell each other you love them! 😛

TS: You forgot the bit about being a one legged gay black muslim civil rights lawyer. 😯

Ernie : Outside NOW!

Did I mention that I am off to the Alps do the Megavalanche on saturday so **** you all! 🙂 🙂

LOL

Well done Grumm, best of luck with it, mate of mine did it last year and the only description I got out of him was AWWWWWWWEEEEEEESSSSSOOOOOOMMMMMEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I’ll be expecting a full report when you get back.

G