Casual racists

When I saw the title “Casual Racists”, I was expecting a thread about premiership football players and their fans …

No thats ok, he was only repeating what he heard- apparently the black footballer racially abusing himself..

You need to realise that someone fat can diet and that someone chinese can do nothing about this fact

Why should a Chinese person have to “do” anything? What is wrong with being Chinese exactly?

I always refer to a Chinese meal as “a Chinese”, in the same way as I refer to an Indian meal as “an Indian” (as in: “Going out for an Indian”).

“Chinky” is a racist term. Get over it and stop using it.

End of.

Rather than froth at the gills over crass naivety because I can’t form an argument to justify the casual insults I’ve been bandying about, which show ‘a lack of empathy on a basic level’ in themselves, I’m also out.

FTFY.

I always refer to a Chinese meal as “a Chinese”, in the same way as I refer to an Indian meal as “an Indian” (as in: “Going out for an Indian”).

Considering what you’re served is a stereotyping construct for the Brits, rather than a dish that is actually eaten in any of these countries that’s a pretty narrow minded view of other cultures and their culinary traditions.

I think the correct phrase is “going out for a meal of Asian origin made to fit British stereotypes”

It’s not a “pretty narrow minded view of other cultures and their culinary traditions. “, it’s a way of referring to available food.

Don’t be a plonker. 😉

She’s heard and been called that term before, she just hasn’t heard anyone use it to refer to a Chinese take away. But due to the meaning she associates it, she would be upset.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Like I said a few pages ago and someone said this morning, educate yourself about who and what is deemed offensive and react politely.

The problem there is that, with the best will in the world, what’s offensive to one person is preferred by another, and any established ‘correct’ terminology changes with the phase of the moon (as ably demonstrated on this thread).

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended. I’m more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I’ll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

I wouldn’t use the word ‘chinkie’ in reference to a take-away food outlet, but if I did, it’d be because it was a contraction / nickname for ‘Chinese’ in the same way that ‘Jonathan’ might become ‘Jonno,’ rather than because I harboured a deep-seated hatred of our oriental-originated bretheren.(*) I suspect that the vast majority of people who do use the term feel much the same (and again, we’ve seen people here go “sorry, I didn’t realise, won’t do it again”).

Deadlydarcy of this very parish referred to me as ‘Cuggie’ the other day, shall I conclude that he’s felist and write a stern letter of outrage to the Daily Mail?

(* – incidentally; is there a big problem with anti-Chinese racism? I don’t think that’s anything I’ve ever come across, aside from the typical childish nonsense back when I was at school. I always thought the British Chinese and the British Caucasians, generally, liked each other and got on well.)

Don’t be a plonker.

Just trying to fit in. 🙂

Bazinga.

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended. I’m more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I’ll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

A million times this. If we all thought like this, we would all get along a little better. Too many people seem to strive to be offended, like its some kind of hobby or something.

After 7 pages, still think its not complicated?

Yup. Try, in general to be respectful of other people and not to cause offence by being insensitive. If you get it wrong live and learn. I’m sure this is what most people do, though some on here would call it PC gone mad.

Gonna trot out this Stewart Lee quote again.

It really worries me that 84% of this audience agrees with that statement, because the kind of people that say “political correctness gone mad” are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I’m of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, “if you want a **** for a neighbour, vote Labour,” and he drove me around saying, “this is where all the **** and the coons and the jungle bunnies live.” And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, “is the black spot in,” right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn’t decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it’s a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It’s a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I’m sick, I’m really sick– 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you’re like those people who turn around and go, “you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men.” You’re a bunch of idiots.

+1

Yup. Try, in general to be respectful of other people and not to cause offence by being insensitive. If you get it wrong live and learn.

A lovely, simple way of living life, and it everyone did this, it wouldn’t be so complicated. But they don’t, so it is…

You’re a bunch of idiots.

Nicely sums up the majority of the thread really.

“you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men.” You’re a bunch of idiots.

I don’t feel oppressed. Should I?

Isolationist thinking. You know for centuries we’ve travelled the world as a people, traded, robbed, hung out with and inter-married.

Then there are those who prefer the village mentality and stay landlocked except for 2weeks a year building their ‘Castle Britannia’.

Hora, you have completely misunderstood that entire quote. And that’s coming from a monobrowed low educated Anglo Saxon…

Cougar, I unilaterally withdraw the “Cuggie” comment if it upset you. I am wringing the very blood out of my hands. 🙁

Calling a piece of food a chinky is not a problem IMO. If its then no more trips to the chip shop for fish & chips 🙁

Apparently fat people are now no longer obese too, or so NHS staff are told…

Nicely sums up the majority of the thread really.

I disagree, and so do the moderators. we have of course been keeping a close eye on things but we are genuinely impressed with the level of debate and how it hasn’t exploded considering the difficulty and sensitivity of the subject matter. Yes, there are strong opinions and we’ve had to warn couple of people quietly in the background but on the whole, this is a good thread.

Sorry Grum, but I grew up in exactly the same context as Stewart Lee and while agreeing with him on the trends, completely disagree with (1) the success identified is due to political correctness, that (2) PC = institutional politeness in an exclusive sense, or that (3) it is only attributable to left wing politics. Other than that, some pretty good points there…

Perhaps many/some of the white, middle class idiots that he refers to align themselves with a different part of the Establishment (that he seems to deride) but live by the same moral code ie, “love thy neighbour as thyself”? 😉 Same conclusion, but different moral drivers – no need to be exclusive about it! That’s another form of -ism, surely?

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended. I’m more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I’ll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

A million times this. If we all thought like this, we would all get along a little better. Too many people seem to strive to be offended, like its some kind of hobby or something.

^^This. At the end of the day, pretty much anything anyone says to or about anyone could be construed as “offensive”. While we shouldn’t go out of our way to deliberately offend, it’s also worth remembering that we are human beings, we will sometimes get stuff wrong, and 99.9999% of the time, it is easily fixed with a simple “oh, sorry about that” (note not some ridiculous humble grovel) and remembering for next time.

I really struggle with the “professionally offended”, especially when it isn’t even them that are offended, it’s on behalf of someone else. As my grandad used to say “was I talking to you or about you? No, then mind your own business”.

Professionally offended is just a lazty slur directed at an illdefined group to give you impunity to be rude about them.
Its madness to think if the slur is not about me I should ignore it- well it was not my bike they were stealing so i just sat amnd watched 😕
I may as well argue there is the professionally offensive who try to offend everyone they meet including your mother. Its adds nothing because it is a fictional charachter who probably reports everything to the thought police 😕

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended.

This always get trotted out by someone whenever this sort of debate gets aired -you will be saying that is not an insult next and a sign of you sensitively using inclusive terms right?
Who do you think is trying really hard to be offended on here by proxy – you seem a bit sensitive to detecting these types of people – perhaps its you 😉
Its a lazy stereotype that I have yet to meet in the real world despite it often getting mentioned on here
IME offensive people tend to either want to be actually offensive or not actually GAS what anyone thinks rather than it being sensitive souls over reacting.

I’m more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I’ll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

I am sure that will happen if everyone knew everyone was trying their best to not be offensive – do you think this is what we have now? . As a bonus when a term was used that was “wrong” a sensible debate could break out about what the appropriate term is.

Cougar, I unilaterally withdraw the “Cuggie” comment if it upset you. I am wringing the very blood out of my hands.

Just not good enough. I am, of course, mortally offended. I accept apologies in most major forms of alcohol.

Its a lazy stereotype that I have yet to meet in the real world

In which case, it doesn’t apply to anyone, so no-one’s affected by it. Everyone’s a winner.

I am sure that will happen if everyone knew everyone was trying their best to not be offensive – do you think this is what we have now?

What we have now is a matter of debate (oh, hey!). But perhaps if by default we gave people the benefit of the doubt rather than just knee-jerking there’d be fewer issues?

As I said, I don’t believe there’s no ‘one size fits all’ answer; read back in this thread, we’ve anecdotal tales of different people objecting to and preferring different terms. What’s acceptable to one is offensive to another. It’s a minefield. If we could just establish a precedent which says “these words are universally ok, these are not” it’d be a lot simpler. But we can’t, so we have to rely on context, intent, and common sense. Which is where some people fall down, it seems.

What’s acceptable to one is offensive to another. It’s a minefield. If we could just establish a precedent which says “these words are universally ok, these are not” it’d be a lot simpler. But we can’t, so we have to rely on context, intent, and common sense. Which is where some people fall down, it seems.

with that kinda post we’re in danger of finishing the debate 😯

oh hang on, this is STW

What we have now is a matter of debate (oh, hey!). But perhaps if by default we gave people the benefit of the doubt rather than just knee-jerking there’d be fewer issues?

There will always be some people who set out deliberately to offend, whether that’s out of ignorance, prejudice or a desire to be noticed. And I’m not talking exclusively about racism etc.

The majority of us offend people by accident. That’s all it is.

There are alot of stubborn people on here who seem to avoid the fact that ‘chinky’ isn’t an acceptable label to use in any context.

Prejudice

cougar + 1

Try not to be offensive. Try not to take offence where none’s intended.
And try to recognise those who make a career out of doing the opposite, like the ex-comedian Stewart “You’re a bunch of idiots” Lee.

There will always be some people who set out deliberately to offend

Sure. But as you say, the majority don’t. So really, we should be assuming innocent until proven guilty.

There are alot of stubborn people on here who seem to avoid the fact that ‘chinky’ isn’t an acceptable label to use in any context.

I don’t think there’s anyone doing that. Though there’s been a few who didn’t realise.

Stuart Lee may find that comment quite offensive.

But then again, it was supposed to be really wasn’t it ? 😉

You’re off to a cracking start.

This always makes me laugh..

We were sat in a Manchester pub and I overheard a Gas/Plumber bitching about Polish workers coming in and driving down his prices due to oversupply……then he started reminising about the good times in the building boom in 80’s Germany when he and his mates went over and…..took work off Germans there… 😆

In which case, it doesn’t apply to anyone, so no-one’s affected by it. Everyone’s a winner.

😀
Its still a lazy stterortype though but it seems to have pressed a number of posters button. Again I reject the idea that some folk are walking around trying to be offended – how many chinese folk need to tell you the phrase is offenssve before you accept it is offensive?
Serioulsy hoiw many? Still its easier to blame the mythical offended by proxy than have a go at Horas experiences and someone who has been the reciever of this phrase eh.
Why not attack them with such vigour 🙄

I reject the idea that some folk are walking around trying to be offended

TBH, they’re more likely to be at home on a computer forum 😉

According to Magda in my office Pole isn’t offensive to her and wouldn’t be to any of her countrymen/women. Her response was “Why would it, it’s just a shortening of Poland or Polish. In our language it just means stick”.

I went through secondary school being predominantly called “the gora”.

“the gora”.

Did you take the time to learn some Punjabi? It amazes and warms people to no end if you did you know. I did.

I went through secondary school being predominantly called “the gora”.

Forgive my spelling as I’ve only ever heard this spoken, but the only context in which I’ve heard that term is “gora rami” which, as far as I can glean, translates as “white bastard”.

(I’m not sharing this in order to be controversial, just anecdotal; it was a fairly common insult at my school)

IGMC…

The ‘offended-by-proxy’/’terminally offended’ etc is the same as getting pissed off at ‘money making speed cameras’ when a speeding ticket is received – caught out doing something wrong but can’t possibly be at fault.