Bristol BRT2 route – Ashton Avenue Bridge

Apples and oranges – that’s a really popular commuter route, Ashton Avenue seems to be more leisure users. Not that either of us have stood next to it and counted the user numbers, mind.

In other words, Ashton Avenue is much less busy than other routes. Which is what I said.

Yes, if it means more noise, more fumes, more user conflict (due to a narrowed carriageway), run-ins with service vehicles and a more convoluted journey.

Have you got a link to the proposed design?

Not wanting to sound aggro, but your comments on here and the recent Sustrans path thread indicate that you haven’t got the foggiest idea why people choose to use traffic-free cycle paths.

I use traffic free paths every day. You should refrain from assuming that I don’t know what I’m talking about, just because I disagree with you.

We’re getting a bit hung up on the Chocolate Path and Ashton Avenue but this will certainly affect major commuter routes like Prince Street and Bristol Bridge too.

I hope so – Prince st is a complete dog’s breakfast.

In other words, Ashton Avenue is much less busy than other routes

So what? Placing pedestrians and cyclists (and pushchairs and dogs… drop by there on a sunny weekend) in close proximity to buses still represents a clear loss in terms of safety – not to mention tranquility, emotive as that quality is. Any genuinely innovative transport plan would involve existing road infrastructure and reform of Brizzle’s pish-poor bus provision – this ain’t it.

I hope so – Prince st is a complete dog’s breakfast

Then I suggest you have a good look at the BRT plans. The current dog’s breakfast is unlikely to be improved by a large number of buses being routed over the Prince St bridge – it’s going to be one hazardous intersection, that’s for sure.

Has anyone officially looked at the fabric of the Ashton swing bridge? Because last time I looked at it there were rust holes in the structure that you could put your arm through! (arm sizes can go up and down, also it was a while back so it may have been sorted by now) It may have been built to a weight carrying spec many times your modern bus but I suspect the H&SE may ask for more than that and a coat of paint when you’ve got holes in the structures joints.
It wouldn’t surprise me if it would be cheaper to stick a new bridge up next to it than effectively do a ground up restoration of a riveted construction 100 year old bridge. At which point you might as well put it in a more convenient place than be tied to that crossing point with all the political hassle that that is causing.
But then it wouldn’t be a Bristol council idea if anyone was left happy at the end of the process! 😉

Has anyone officially looked at the fabric of the Ashton swing bridge?

As rusty as an unloved Raleigh Activator that’s been left out in the rain. Also a listed structure, iirc.

Did anybody say “cost overrun”? 😕

I knew i was surrounded by singletrackers in Southville! Agreed on the OP, I use this every day, it will change the nice ride i have with my boy to the nursery before my Ashton Court – into town commute. Unfortunately i can see this happening, seems like the football will get their ground at some point and they’ve been busting to use these old tracks.

Only good thing i’d get out of it is a parking space on home games!!! Not worth it though. 🙂

Anyone still wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt should come along on Monday and talk to the members of Bristol Cycling Campaign who’ve just spent a week at the planning enquiry asking questions about the scheme and getting some highly unsatisfactory responses. It’s being pushed through by people who don’t give a rat’s ass about cycling, or the majority of Bristol commuters.

Maybe the millions could be spent on painting some cartoons of buses on the road, rather like they’ve done with the cycle city cash?

Don’t be silly, they’d rather put the cash in their own back pockets.

Is the campaign against BRT2 based only on the impact on cycling?

Seems a great shame to send buses along the harbourside when it’s such a popular area to stroll around and enjoy the city. Especially with all the effort that’s gone into improving the area and the excellent M Shed.

Just thinking that if the impact of this scheme is publicised to non-cyclists it could boost the campaign to stop it.

Quick bump.

Meeting is tonight – 7:30pm, at the Hen & Chicken (North Street).

Ah, noteeth beat me to it.

Is the campaign against BRT2 based only on the impact on cycling?

No. Have a read of their website, they’ve pretty much covered everything, including the impact on the Harbourside. There are also some suggestions for alternative schemes that the cash could be spent on.

Interesting meeting last night. I went in expecting to see a bunch of familiar faces from local cycling groups, but it was a much broader mix of local residents and transport campaigners. In fact I think me and Noteeth were the only people there on account of cycling.

I hadn’t appreciated what a half-baked scheme this whole thing is. It needs to be delivered by 2015, and they haven’t even got the basics in place – no vehicles have been chosen, no operators appointed and there are loads of unanswered questions about the route. There is some really shoddy thinking going on with the predicted journey times.

It seems like Prince Street Bridge is going to end up being used all three BRT schemes if this goes ahead, which will make the current confusing setup seem like a gambol in a meadow by comparison. When it swings the buses will just have to queue up.

On Ashton Avenue Bridge, cyclists and pedestrians are apparently going to be herded onto a bolt-on gantry on the side of the bridge to keep them out of the way of the two-lane bus traffic. The brand new Festival Way cycle track (a nice quiet way to the trails) is going to become bus lane.

If the budget overruns it’s highly likely to screw over the proposed metro rail network too.

It seems like a lot is going to hinge on the mayoral elections (a bit frustrating given that I’m a South Gloucs resident). Transport for Greater Bristol[/url] are organising a hustings, so are Lifecycle UK. If enough people go along to these and ask awkward questions then they may just get the message…

I was there, sat opposite you behind a pint of cider.

Likewise, I hadn’t fully appreciated how awesomely bad an idea this is. What got me was the disparity between the speeds it’s claimed the buses will travel at and the number of 90 degree bends they’ll have to negotiate at somewhat less than warp speed. And yes, the bridge swings have been totally ignored by the planners.

At risk of agreeing with Mr Agreeable, this really does need Bristol locals contacting councellors / MPs / etc to say they don’t want cowboys shitting a dodgy bus lane through historic Bristol under false pretences. Most of the people at the meeting seemed to live on the proposed route – which might lead to them being discredited as NIMBYs. I suspect if a greater number of people from around the city, many of whom don’t know what BRT stands for, realised that there are plans to run buses through the harbourside there would be more public debate.

Harbours are for boats, not buses.

Good to put a face to a name. 😉

As wordnumb says, we definitely need to get this onto MPs’, Local Enterprise Partnerships’ and mayoral candidates’ radars. I’m fairly sure many of them would not be supporting it if they had the warts and all briefing, instead of just the sales pitch.

http://www.writetothem.com/
http://www.westofenglandlep.co.uk/transport-and-infrastructure/transport-investment

Also very interested to discover the existence of Transport for Greater Bristol. I agree with pretty much every single one of their proposals for improving transport. http://www.tfgb.org.uk/manifesto.htm

I was there

I did wonder if other STWers were lurking… 🙂

I hadn’t appreciated what a half-baked scheme this whole thing is.

Aye, utterly daft… supported only by a council desperate to spend allocated funding and consultants who sense a payday – & waved thru by politicos who seem to have no grasp of what they are agreeing to.

Quick update, following the mayoral hustings last night.

I know prospective candidates are inclined to be populist, but a fair number of ’em are against the scheme – not least because £50 million seems rather a lot of money to spend on re-routing some buses.

Doubts cast on bendy bus plan by mayoral hopefuls

Next public meeting at the Hen & Chicken slated for 7.30 pm, Mon 15th October.

The candidates were asked from the floor whether they supported the route, known as BRT2.

Mr Murphy had responded by saying: “Yes, without reservations.”

But afterwards he said that he was against the bendy bus system and therefore should have said “No”.

FFS – never mind what he thinks of BRT2, does he understand the basic concepts of I-ask-you-a-question-and-you-tell-me-the-answer?!?!

@noteeth – who was the BRT2-sceptic then, as in ‘I do not, cannot and will not support this shower of sh!te’? Be good to start marking some cards for voting time 😉

who was the BRT2-sceptic

George Ferguson (Independent) and Daniella Radice (Green) are point-blank opposed. There’s varying degrees of opposition among the others, as far as I’m aware.

I suspect the real issue will be to get the Gov money spent on other stuff – so long as it is earmarked for BRT schemes, BCC will be desperate to spend it (the jobs! the infrastructure!).

Good stuff – thanks

I suspect the real issue will be to get the Gov money spent on other stuff – so long as it is earmarked for BRT schemes, BCC will be desperate to spend it (the jobs! the infrastructure!).

As well intentioned as BCC might be in that respect, ‘…the road to hell is paved with good intentions…’ 😉

‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions’

What tyres for…?

If BRT2 goes ahead, the road to hell will certainly include Prince Street Bridge.

Good work all who were there. From the news report and one of the anti- campaign’s twitter feed, it sounds like the scheme is rapidly being backed away from by most of the candidates.

They’d be much better off spending the funding on preliminary work for metro rail IMO, it just depends what the conditions are.

Good to hear chaps, good to hear. I’d be very sad if this went forward and would likely mean I would look to change where I live (i.e. out of Bristol) as the commute by bike is one of key draws for me.

Make it dangerous, and I’m less likely to want to risk life and limb to work in a busy city.

It seems like Prince Street Bridge is going to end up being used all three BRT schemes if this goes ahead, which will make the current confusing setup seem like a gambol in a meadow by comparison. When it swings the buses will just have to queue up.

On Ashton Avenue Bridge, cyclists and pedestrians are apparently going to be herded onto a bolt-on gantry on the side of the bridge to keep them out of the way of the two-lane bus traffic. The brand new Festival Way cycle track (a nice quiet way to the trails) is going to become bus lane.

Ok, you’ve convinced me. I might’ve swallowed it for the greater good, but that BRT is predicted to take a miniscule share of commuter traffic

Ransos and anyone else convinced by what Agreeable and No Teeth are saying – please write to your local councillors / MPs, or just to Bristol Council if you live out of the area. There are example letters to cut and paste from on the Stop BRT website.

Ta.

Ransos and anyone else convinced by what Agreeable and No Teeth are saying – please write to your local councillors / MPs, or just to Bristol Council if you live out of the area. There are example letters to cut and paste from on the Stop BRT website.

I can’t do that for reasons I won’t go into here.

I did talk to the Sustrans chuggers by Ashton Ave last night. They didn’t seem all that well informed about the plans, and told me that Sustrans’ official position was neutral. I wonder if they’ll change their stance once they become fully aware of the proposal details?

I take it you work for the Council or one of the other people involved in the project then Ransos?

I’m a bit disappointed that Sustrans aren’t kicking up more of a fuss. John Grimshaw their founder has been one of its most outspoken critics, and I think him and Sustrans now have something of an awkward relationship, so perhaps that’s why they’re keeping schtum.

Regardless of opinions to the contrary, Bristol City Council are still gunning for the scheme:

At the same meeting the Cabinet will be asked to agree that £4.65 million be put forward out of the total £10 million allocated to the Bus Rapid Transit scheme from the Invest in Bristol package.

The money is needed to cover the costs of developing Bristol’s three routes over the next 12 months. Funding will be needed to help pay towards planning and licence applications.

I sense a deepening money pit…

Apologies for the bumpity-bump… but there’s a council meeting at 6 pm, thurs 4th October (Council House, College Green) – the agenda includes discussion (& presumably ratification) of the BRT funding allocation.

If anybody feels strongly about it, the StopBRT group & various others are planning to meet up at 5.30 pm to make a statement & demonstrate their opposition.

Email received below, thought I’d paste here for those interested. I plan to be there tomorrow…

“If you can please come for half an hour tomorrow to show your opposition to more spending on BRT2. We will be gathering
for a photo-opportunity outside the Council House at 5.30pm -prior to the Cabinet meeting at 6pm. We are aware of four statements
including three of ours (business case, Harbour and conservation and cycling and walking) and Bristol Cycling Campaign’s opposing more BRT2 funding which will be read out at the start of the meeting.

The Post has already covered it in today’s issue.
£20 million – just for bendybus paperwork
> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/pound-20-million-ndash-just-bendybus-paperwork/story-17024588-detail/story.html”

Bump.

Happening later today – in case anybody happens to be passing by.

Only 20-25 this evening, poor show but well done to those who turned up.

Unfortunately for its readers, my handsome face is obscured in the Post’s photo (print edition).

Protesters attack £4.5m spend on bendybus plan

BCC seem desperate to force the issue… prior to the mayoral election (or even the results of the public enquiry! 😕 ).

Bump up the jam, as Technotronic might say.

Next StopBRT2 meeting is 7.30pm Monday 15th October at the Hen and Chicken, North Street, Bedminster.

Are you the bloke peeing against the wall?

Are you the bloke peeing against the wall?

ha ha, no – a different photograph was used in the actual paper.

Meeting is tonight.

The council proposal has been “called in”. This means that the proposal will now be reviewed after the mayoral election, which is significant, given the opposition of some of the leading candidates.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-19872109

Did a lunchtime of pounding the streets and trying to get local shops and other businesses to put up posters lately, and it was fairly astonishing how few have been informed of the proposals, or have any idea what they could mean for the Harbourside area. The Council are flying this one under the radar for sure.

Of all the businesses, only the Princes Pantry had any enthusiasm for Prince Street being turned into a transport depot, presumably visualising hordes of fatties waddling off their buses to gorge themselves on a Myocardial Infarction.

to gorge themselves on a Myocardial Infarction.

Mmmm, bacon.

it was fairly astonishing how few have been informed of the proposals

This is key, imo – makes you wonder what will happen if/when they start building the damn thing.

I rode this bridge for the first time yesterday .I live on the Mendips and rode to town via Long Ashton and Aston Court .I rarely ride into town but found this a pleasant quiet route in .There were 2 guys from Sustrans canvassing support on the North side of the river yesterday lunchtime