[Closed] Bristol BRT2 route - Ashton Avenue Bridge

Personally I wish Tim Kent would just **** off.

What a f***ing rediculous concept. Lose half the traffic lights in Bristol and you'd soon find traffic flow improving.

The bendy buses do work in Bristol on the new routes, I use the 902 and it's sodding useful, however that route looks utterly daft.

They've spent millions on bringing the docks to a reasonable level so that people enjoy the time down there and wandering about. In addition, it's a very well used commute for walkers and cyclists (like myself) to get into work without going anywhere near traffic.

Now they want ruin all that to appease a couple of out of touch councillors with toes in the the First pie.

it's a very well used commute

Indeed. It's gonna screw a good cycle route into town.

Grimshaw is not [url= http://road.cc/content/news/59405-bristol-should-lose-cycling-city-status-says-sustrans-founder-john-grimshaw ]amused.[/url]

Mate of mine works at Sustrans, I'll have a word with him to see what they're doing; I wouldn't mind getting behind something if they were looking to kick off about it - it will affect my enjoyable commute, and Bristol for the future - one of the reasons why I enjoy living here. Hence, losing such an enjoyable route will be a travesty.

>growsabeardanddonsRonhills<

losing such an enjoyable route will be a travesty

I agree.

The proposed scheme is a waste of money. There are plenty of alternative (& cheaper) infrastructure improvements that could be considered.

Besides which... it sounds daft, but I think that bridge is a magical little spot, especially at dusk - I love the post-trails ride to the Nova. I dinnae really want buses running through it. 👿

noteeth

Besides which... it sounds daft, but I think that bridge is a magical little spot, especially at dusk - I love the post-trails ride to the Nova

Absolutely agree; something magical about my day at work being completely washed away by riding along the docks, river and then through that bridge before up into AC.

Having to fight it out with buses really doesn't appeal.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 😥

There are plenty of alternative (& cheaper) infrastructure improvements that could be considered.

Go on then.............

Umm.

From the same site: http://stopbrt2.org.uk/and-better-ways

The Portishead link is one that the area has been screaming for years for; having worked in Avonmouth, and commuted through Portishead once or twice, I know that many Portishead locals would love this opportunity, as well as the benefits to the Ashton Gate goers (footy) and the Beaminster locals who could do with a way of getting across town easily without being stuck in traffic all the time...

Go on then.............

For a start, [i]not[/i] spending so much money on such an ill-thought out scheme - unless you think it's such a great idea? Holy fug, they could simply buy every rate-payer a bike - it'd do more good. Or (here's a thing) sort out the (expensive) mess that is existing bus provision.

I'd rather see a light railway than this kind of nonsense.

Hopefully any development will mean the implementation of some street lighting along this part of Festival Way. Surprised that it wasn't thought about before the route was opened to be honest.

Thanks for posting this noteeth, I wasn't aware of this latest idiocy.

We should fight them on the bridges, and on the pump track. We should fight them along the dockside, on spike island, we should fight them on the towpaths and cycleways, the trails, both manmade and natural. We should fight with growing confidence and growing strength on two wheels (by which I refer to pedal-powered cycles generally, nothing against tricycles etc) and we should defend our city, whatever the cost may be. Never surrender.

We should fight them on the bridges, and on the pump track.

Damn right! 😀

😆 @ wordnumb

The thing is a lot of councils have pet projects and no matter what the cost,they will try and make them go ahead, despite the public not wanting them.But guided busways are reasonably cheap to build and the buses can also run on roads with out guides, trams cant.

There where plans for a guided busway in chester, along a cycletrack and luckily it failed, liverpool also wanted trams and it again failed,manchester wanted a congestion charge and it failed.

Strangely trams seem quite succesful in Manchester.

All we can do is complain until sence is seen and new plans drawn up.

Bristol City Council. *sigh*

Some days it really does feel like vested interests are trying to shit all the character out of Bristol. Like when you look at photos of the centre from ten years ago and realise that grass and a couple of half-arsed hedges looked infinitely better than what's there now.

Weren't they talking about running one of these bus routes along the Bristol-Bath cyclepath as well at one point?

What sort of lock is best for lying down in front of bulldozers?

Weren't they talking about running one of these bus routes along the Bristol-Bath cyclepath as well at one point?

Yup, got a pretty angry reception.

Weren't they talking about running one of these bus routes along the Bristol-Bath cyclepath as well at one point?

That proposal was so ridiculous it involved the compulsory purchasing of gardens belong to people whose houses back onto the path.

The submitted objections by interested parties are worth reading:

http://www.persona.uk.com/ashton/PoE_Interested_Parties.htm

Looks like the council/BRT promoters aren't bothered by the potential effect upon the dockside/M-Shed (which has been a demonstrable success with visitors, many of whom also enjoy the railway), or the implications for walkers & cyclists (watch yerself on Prince Street Bridge...) - or, indeed, for anybody who enjoys the character of the area.

noteeth, whats the long and short of those objections? Good or bad?

Not so clever at these councily things. Can't we just chain ourselves naked to some diggers?

noteeth, whats the long and short of those objections?

It's a pretty varied group - everybody from the Civic Society, Ramblers, transport planners, Friends of the New Cut, Cyclists, Industrial Archaeologists, the Railway volunteers, local residents - all of whom make good points & draw similar conclusions.

Namely, that it's a damn fool idea.

Spread the word!

I'd rather see a light railway than this kind of nonsense.

You'd cost me even more money then. Rough order of cost for rapid transit systems is that a tram system costs x10 more than a bus system and a train system is x10 more than that.

Bristol needs an effective rapid transit system to remove more cars from the city. It needs to be bus-based for cost reasons. After that, there are a number of options. Better integration with the town planning would also be required for a more sustainable future plan, but that is too big a step for now.

BTW - you didn't offer any alternative to the proposed scheme - other than buying bikes.

Bristol needs an effective rapid transit system to remove more cars from the city

Do you think the current BRT plans would achieve this and justify the cost?

Bristol needs an effective rapid transit system to remove more cars from the city. It needs to be bus-based for cost reasons.

Absolutely, the cost of the proposed reopening the Portishead line is outragous for something that imo will never turn a profit.

Do you think the current BRT plans would achieve this and justify the cost?

Personally, not really. However, just saying 'no' and not proposing anything else isn't constructive. I do think the route has potential (not a lot else that is fairly flat and able to be turned into a dedicated route) with some adapting and that bus-based is the only option. Beyond that, there are other things that would be needed as well. Where else are there clear tracts of land that pierce the city?

Personally, not really. However, just saying 'no' and not proposing anything else isn't constructive.

Me neither, however just saying 'yes' potentially means a scheme that is quite destructive. 'No' is a fair response to something that doesn't look to be solving the problem.

Just because there is a clear tract of land that pierces the city doesn't mean you have to gobble it up and build on it in a misguided attempt to solve a larger problem.

Some interesting reading found via the previously linked stopbrt2 site:
https://sites.google.com/site/brt2publicinquiry/welcome

'No' is a fair response to something that doesn't look to be solving the problem.

'No' doesn't do much to help the lobby against daft proposals in any circumstances. It just demonstrates a stance against something and doesn't usually achieve much. Getting people to think about possible solutions rather than not liking the one proposed is more likely to garner support and demonstrate a willingness to resolve the problem rather than merely object to a proposed (no matter how flawed) solution. Public engagement is required.

Just because there is a clear tract of land that pierces the city doesn't mean you have to gobble it up and build on it in a misguided attempt to solve a larger problem.

Quite right. However, my basic premise is that a rapid transit system is much needed in Bristol and a bus-based solution is the most financially viable. It requires a dedicated route. Where would you put it then?

However, just saying 'no' and not proposing anything else isn't constructive.

Er, how so? Because as far as that particular stretch is concerned, I hope they do nothing and leave it well alone. Increasing numbers of people - using nothing more expensive than their own initiative - are cycling/walking into town, many of 'em along that route. The existing BRT plans give such commuters minimal consideration - indeed, the proposed Prince Street Bridge bus routing is utterly daft from a safety POV. I suspect the promised Gov funding partly explains the Council's desire to build, build, build. The passenger/journey time projections (themselves apparently flawed) will do little to ease Bristol's terminal gridlock - be the journey local or from out-of-town.

Better integration with the town planning would also be required for a more sustainable future plan, but that is too big a step for now.

If we are going to really grip the problem, then this should be the [i]first[/i] step. The council funding would be better spent on sorting out the mess that is existing Brizzle bus provision. I've recently spent 5 years in Southampton - their Unilink service (a collaboration between the Council, University and Bus co) pishes all over First's efforts.

Where would you put it then?

To be quite frank, I'd use existing road infrastructure. If we are serious about getting people out of cars, we need to be radical about it.

Quite right. However, my basic premise is that a rapid transit system is much needed in Bristol and a bus-based solution is the most financially viable. It requires a dedicated route. Where would you put it then?

Who cares if it's the most financially viable solution, if in truth it isn't actually a solution though? Do we just go ahead and splash the cash cause "well I can't really think of anything better..."

Public engagement is vital as you say, and thankfully there are people who speak up to question this scheme. Whilst they may not be able to respond with an alternative that ticks all boxes, they're more than entitled to highlight the failings of the current scheme, failings that the professionals should be picking up on before things race ahead.

Once you've built on this clear tract of land that is used by many pedestrians and cyclists it's unlikely that you'll get it back should the scheme turn out to be ill thought out and an unwise use of money (which judging by the number of objections seems rather close to the truth).

To be quite frank, I'd use existing road infrastructure. If we are serious about getting people out of cars, we need to be radical about it.

That won't work if you want to make real improvements. To get the passenger density you need double or triple length buses - part of the reason they need their own lanes to run in. With those sort of lengths you would need to vary a lot from the existing road routes as the frequency of tight bends (and hills) etc are prohibitive.

Do we just go ahead and splash the cash cause "well I can't really think of anything better..."

No - and that isn't what I say. I'm saying 'Bristol needs rapid transit' so work needs to be done to find the most cost effective and the best routes.

With those sort of lengths you would need to vary a lot from the existing road routes as the frequency of tight bends (and hills) etc are prohibitive.

Equally true of BRT2 (albeit without the hills), as StopBRT [url= http://stopbrt2.org.uk/why-we-oppose-brt2 ]point out[/url]:

[i]"This section of the route [/i][from Long Ashton Park and Ride to the Arnolfini] [i]is divided into 17 sections (8 guided, 9 unguided) over its 4.3km (2.7 miles) length. The guided parts run for only 2km (1.3 miles) inbound and 1.3km (0.8 mile) outbound. Blind corners, sharp bends, single track sections, and traffic lights, all mean it is impossible to deliver any of the potential benefits of a guided busway. It is misleading to refer to the whole BRT2 scheme as a guided busway given the fragmented nature of the guided sections and the short distance they cover within the whole scheme."[/i]

No - and that isn't what I say. I'm saying 'Bristol needs rapid transit' so work needs to be done to find the most cost effective and the best routes.

All for a well thought out, cost effective system that's not detrimental to the immediate environment...BRT2 that ain't however.

This would be such a shame 🙁

I have been saying for years that Bristol needs something like a cable car/gondola/overhead monorail system. Could run from the park and ride at Ashton Gate and somehow make it's way all the way up Whiteladies to the Downs via a couple of changes.

Would get all the buses off those roads which would make traffic run smoother and the roads safer.

The 'improvements' they did on whiteladies road baffle me. They have made the road narrower making it impossible to get around stopped buses and harder for emergency services. Really have no idea why there seems to be parking bays in a bus lane either.

could have had a nice overhead system that would also double up for sightseeing around the waterfront during off-peak times. Perfect for slinging your bike on if you don't fancy riding up park street too and it could be used to take people to within a brief walk of Ashton Court, Cabot Circus etc etc and the railway station at Clifton Down.

[img] [/img]

All the necessary ingredients for a romantic meal at the Olive Shed: wine, candles, double-decker bus.

There is a public meeting on [url= http://stopbrt2.org.uk/next-stopbrt2-public-meeting-31-july ]31 July[/url], for anybody interested in opposing this scheme.

Bump.

Public meeting is tonight, 7.30 pm at the Hen & Chicken (North Street).

It's just dawned on me that this will impinge massively on my enjoyment of a nice bacon, egg and sausage sandwich at Brunels Buttery.

Are more buses really needed in Bristol - this strikes me as a lack of imagination.

noteeth,

how did the meeting go?

how did the meeting go?

Sorry deluded, missed your post. 😳

The meeting: I arrived late after my shift (& thank goodness they had Doom Bar - I was desperate for a pint!). I guess there were 15 or so people in attendance - a mixture of local/harbour residents & various transport types.

The main focus seemed to be on how best to raise [the various] concerns with the West of England Local Enterprise Partnership (advice on writing letters here: http://stopbrt2.org.uk/how-contact-your-mp-and-local-enterprise-partnership). Needless to say, there was a pretty strong feeling that Bristol is being sold a duff scheme (both in economic & transport terms) - not least because the Council seem desperate to slap [i]something[/i] down, just in order to merit the additional Gov funding (especially given current demands to 'invest in infrastructure'). So, one angle of attack could be the de-coupling of that funding & directing it towards other projects. The trouble being that most people instinctively agree with what is touted as a 'integrated transport solution', without necessarily realising what is being proposed.

Various issues were raised in terms of detrimental effects upon business, tourist & heritage interests (e.g. the M-Shed area of dockside), as well as the fact that some business interests are decidedly supportive of the scheme (e.g. Bristol Airport). The proposed bus route over the Prince Street swing bridge is a major issue - just daft, IMO.

As a resident of Ashton Road (and as a commuter, mountain biker & reasonably-frequent Nova drinker!), I suppose my main concern was how little notice has been given to locals regarding the Ashton Avenue bridge. There's a lot of dog walkers, runners, cyclists etc who are going to have a [i]major[/i] shock when they start sending buses through there (& the festival way cutting). Yes, cycle/pedestrian access will be maintained, but I think it will be a sad day when/if it happens. Again, I'm being rather sentimental about that corner of town - but it has a certain charm the way it is: a kind of interface between the Avon Gorge, central Bristol and its industrial past.

So, I've agreed to hand out some leaflets on the bridge - if only to raise awareness (if you see a Brompton rider waving at you, I'm not begging!). There will be another public meeting in early September, afaik.

Sorry - corrected link: http://stopbrt2.org.uk/how-contact-your-mp-and-local-enterprise-partnership

The next meeting's this Monday, 7.30 at the Hen and Chicken:

http://stopbrt2.org.uk/stopbrt2-next-meeting-730pm-monday-3-september-hen-and-chicken-ph

Yes, cycle/pedestrian access will be maintained, but I think it will be a sad day when/if it happens

This is the important bit - there are no plans to remove cycling access over the bridge or along the chocolate path. I have mixed feelings on the scheme, but to oppose it because you might have to share a bridge (which was built to carry trains and cars) doesn't seem like the best of reasons.