Brexit 2020+

Kimbers – if the independence alliance ( or whatever its going to be called) takes off it could be a bigger majority. Its intended to farm pro independence second votes because at the moment second votes for SNP get them nothing. I think its a mistake mind you and could be counter productive by removing greens

Sold my house in England and moved back to Scotland a month ago after 33 years. My wife who is English is more pro-Indy than me. Scotland’s economy will get the benefit of my house sale proceeds, pension and accumulated savings. I was talking to a builder today whose getting lots of enquiries from south of the border. Know a few city folks now moving from London to Europe. Expect the Brexit Exodus isn’t insignificant. Well done Boris for improving my quality of life.

Wot kimbers sed.

This direction this thread has taken misses “somebody” telling us the truth is out there or inventing new nicknames for Scottish politicians…Dougie/doggie whatever from the previous page is a poundshop THM.

If Johnson wants to strike new trade deals, he will have to keep devolved government on side or they could scupper it big time as they have devolved powers of food labeling, safety etc

If hes is too heavy handed with his internal market white paper in the autumn Sturgeon will have another stick to beat the government with…………..

The whole purpose of the internal market nonsense is to force thru the US trade deal with its lowering of standards and to make it impossible for the devolved parliaments to do anything about it

Can anyone understand what Lawson’s on about?

The facts being that he was wrong on climate change, and also wrong on his chances to scarper to the EU (France in the case of M’Lud) even as he successfully campaigned to effectively deny the rest of us and our children the chance to freely live and work there)…

…does that mean that he’s also probably wrong on a ‘no deal‘ exit?

I fear ‘third time lucky‘. Or maybe he knows something I don’t (yet have suspected from the beginning ie crash out, buyout, selloff and scarper)…?

“We want to be a self-governing country in a state of great friendship with the Europeans… but we certainly don’t want to be in the Common Market.”

Former Conservative Chancellor Lord Lawson says he “doesn’t think there will be” an EU-UK trade deal#Newsnight pic.twitter.com/PcCg3nJByL

— BBC Newsnight (@BBCNewsnight) July 23, 2020

As someone said

It is remarkable that Nigel Lawson, somewhat rambling and on a very bad internet connection, is the best the #UK side can come up with to debate
@katarinabarley
on the interminable issue of #Brexit negotiations on #Newsnight…

Dougie, who would you recommend I listen to for some good news? Some proper evidence/forecasting/analysis that we are ‘better out’? With some PROPER evidence that doesn’t consist of hand-waving and cheery nothings?

Furthermore – talking of Scotland. Anyone remember 2014?

Upside down world. War is peace. Fish are fowl.

Dougie/doggie whatever from the previous page is a poundshop THM.

Thats a bit unfair. Dougie is neither insulting everyone or making up fairy stories pretending he has an inside line.

Its a real shame THM is no longer here. I think him trying to justify what has happened since he left would be hilarious. Presumably thats why he left – no longer able to make any defense not matter how contorted of the mess that is brexit

Firstly I have no idea what a poundshop THM is but I assume it to be a insult, I don’t think I have insulted anyone except for possibly their political ideals. Other insults thrown at me have included, drug dealer, drug user and troll.

Thats a bit unfair. Dougie is neither insulting everyone or making up fairy stories pretending he has an inside line.

I said this place was an echo chamber and I have sought to provide some evidence (superficial according to some) that life after Brexit wont be as bad as some in here have said. I do not deny it may be hard but its a big world out there with plenty of opportunity, I believe sense will prevail and a deal will be made with the EU, others opinions and I emphasise opinions may vary.

I believe the EU is going in the direction of statehood and I believe that this will not be in the best interests of the UK. Whether or not the UK still exists is up for debate but is also speculation, I believe it will exist.

On the issue of why an N.irishman would vote for brexit; I think I have made it quite clear that I believe in the UK as a prosperous country of which I want to remain a part, the vote was taken as a UK wide vote “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” N.Ireland is a part of the UK. 44% of people in N.I who voted, voted to leave along with me. You can make your own assumptions about those people, however I guess that like me they fundamentally believed in their place as part of the UK.

I found this video which if you want to watch it agrees with some of my feelings on brexit, I don’t feel that it is too far removed from the current situation, I think its conclusion comes to the crux of the problem.

Can you repost the “evidence” you claim to have brought to the thread please? I must have missed it.

Also how do you correlate voting to leave the EU with wanting to remain in the UK?

THM was a previous poster on here that was pro brexit and made ridiculous claims about what was happening and what would happen. He left when it became clear that we were all laughing at him for his nonsense.

life after Brexit wont be as bad as some in here have said

Probably not. Still waiting to hear what you think will be better for people your side of the Irish Sea because of Brexit. “Not as bad as some people say” is a claim you can make with all validity about absolutely everything and anything. What’s the upside for you? Other than both more and less bureaucracy, and both escaping and keeping to EU regulations… which is all I’ve managed to pick out of your contributions so far (which I thank you for, avoiding this being an echo chamber is to be welcomed).

Some examples of how life in Northern Island is being improved by the path this government is on as regards the EU beyond a circular … “it’s a beneficial thing because I believe it is” … please.

TBF TJ he stated repeatedly that he’d voted remain and was just dealing with what was in front of him. he ( rightly, as it turned out ) stated over and over that attempts to reverse the result were futile and we should all just crack on with life. he did make me think, mainly thinking ‘there’s some nuggets of sense in here it’s just a shame you write in such a way you come across as a condescending cock and swamp the sense with so much drivel’, but some of his observations were sound. you always rubbed up against each other, but he’s not here to defend himself, as you say, so best left alone IMO.

Dougie, ‘it won’t be as bad as you think’ is ok as far as it goes, but it’s such a tremendous act of self harm, to gain what? every single thing we have to accomplish to ‘do’ brexit costs money, money we wouldn’t have to spend if we’d stayed in, and the ongoing costs of lower inward investment will perpetuate that initial act of self harm on millions of the less well off. fundamentally, if the country is less well off, it’s those at the bottom who pay.
ironic that the majority of your countrymen will likely get what they voted for, to remain, whereas you’ll get the opposite of what you want – leaving the UK and staying in the EU. still, i’m sure they’ll make provision for you to move to england if that’s what you want.

I’m a big fan of how the ambition for the UK’s future is now, “It will be ok. Hardship is good.”

Kimbers has already pointed it out, but a deal isn’t going to change much in the grand scheme of things. No Deal prep and FTA prep are very similar. Customs declarations will be needed regardless of FTA for example

There are some very unavoidable tradeoffs to not being in the SM and CU that people are going to have to wake up to in the next 5 months. Blind faith and a last minute deal isn’t going to spirit away a massive lorry park in your back garden.

Its a real shame THM is no longer here. I think him trying to justify what has happened since he left would be hilarious. Presumably thats why he left – no longer able to make any defense not matter how contorted of the mess that is brexit

I was thinking this the other day. Wonder what happened to all those ‘adults’ who were just biding their time before striding into the conference room to deliver a magnificently spun BRINO. Halcyon days when there was still the hope of mitigating most of the damage. Now we have a juvenile Churchill fetishist in Number 10 being given orders by a pseudo intellectual maniac with a hard-on for destroying institutions for the hell of it. Grownups my arse.

And eventually Doogie has come out with the Brexiteers last slogan of choice:

“It won’t be as bad as you think”.

Oh, right, f***ing cheers for that. That makes it all OK. Whatever next, blue passports?

So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on our own terms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?

Also the decision has been made to leave it is happening, why is it so wrong to suggest that we get on with it?

I think we could all agree that the main sticking point is uncertainty oabout the ultimate trading direction, which this government needs to make sooner rather than later, it would parliament to mitigate the effects on poorer members of society.

I would also say that if thoughts/opinions/feelings are now suddenly conspiracy or not valid, then there is not a lot of substance to this thread in either direction.

on our own terms

What does that mean? We don’t set terms, we negotiate them (or not).

why is it so wrong to suggest that we get on with it?

We have left the EU. How is this improving your life over there?

So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on our own terms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?

Nope. Not as a net importer and a country still living way beyond its means in a global sense. Add in particularly adversarial and insular populist regime elsewhere and I would much prefer to have the clout of being part of a large trading bloc that can have some leverage.

Also the decision has been made to leave it is happening, why is it so wrong to suggest that we get on with it?

Because ‘hope’.

I think we could all agree that the main sticking point is uncertainty about the ultimate trading direction, which this government needs to make sooner rather than later, it would parliament to mitigate the effects on poorer members of society.

So mitigating damage is now the goal? Mitigating self-inflicted damage? That’s the best we can do?

Stick it on the side of a bus, mate.

So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on our own terms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?

A ‘bonus’ is an added sum. Usually a dividend. An extra sum, a reward, etc. Given that Brexit will have soon cost the UK more than all its payments to the EU over the past 47 years put together – over what sort of timescale do we expect to see the reward of your ‘possible bonus’ and in what form would it arrive?

in what form would it arrive?

Sovereignty bonds embossed with an image of Mark Francois riding a bulldog into battle against the Hun ?

The problem for the brexiteers is that the costs sunk into brexit mean it will be a decade at least before it becomes profitable

There’s been no evidence presented so far that it ever will be

it would parliament to mitigate the effects on poorer members of society.

What mitigation would that be?

dougiedogg
Member

So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on our own terms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?

It is. It’s just, it’s a small bonus, which will be cancelled out many times over by the massive damage that comes with that bonus. There’s quite a few places where we can make small gains through brexit but that counts for nothing if they’re tied to places where we will make large losses. Losing your driving licence isn’t good news just because you save on petrol.

Given that Brexit will have soon cost the UK more than all its payments to the EU over the past 47 years put together

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

How on earth do you figure that out?

In the same way as a mugging victim has to take their share of the blame for their injuries for fighting back. If you’d just handed over your wallet and phone both you and the mugger would be better off?

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

Very good dougie – thats exactly the line the boris government wants brexiteers to parrot , i figure you also have to apportion blame to the following,

Brexiteers who did not accept Theresa May’s brexit deal
Pro Brexit DUP who blocked Boris’ brexit

The £350m nhs bus was a lie but it wasn’t enough to change the result….
Yes vote leave illegally overspent but it wasn’t enough to change the result….
Yes people voted expecting a deal but it wasn’t enough to change the result….
yes Russia may have amplified the lies but it wasn’t enough to change the result…..

52% vs 48%, makes you think eh?

Dougie, you can **** right off. I’m not taking any responsibility for the shit show that is happening. The responsibility for this lies with some of our politicians, and the people who believed their bullshit.

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

B-O-L-L-O-C-K-S.

You did ok for a bit, but that is so utterly ridiculous you’ve just outed yourself as someone who has lapped up the ‘this could have been so beautiful but remainers robbed us of cricket on the village green, flat beer, cucumber sandwiches (no black or brown faces in the sepia photograph)’ Brexity bollocks.

Nice try. You and your ilk own this. All of it. Enjoy your legacy.

Oh and I should also say:

“You won. Get over it”.

I believe the EU is going in the direction of statehood and I believe that this will not be in the best interests of the UK

Assuming this to be true – and to be honest I’ve no idea what you’re talking about or why it’s a bad thing so maybe you could elaborate? – why do you believe that it’s better to be sat powerless watching this happen on our doorstep rather than being in a position to steer or prevent it?

So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on our own terms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?

No, it’s not. It just isn’t.

What “terms” are you talking about, what terms do you think we could negotiate that the EU is – well, was – preventing us from negotiating? Given that, as I’ve said previously, our MEPs were already negotiating our terms until you stopped them.

Do you seriously think that a little country like ours could out-negotiate one of the largest trading blocks on the planet, one renowned for its skilled negotiators?

Would you turn a Tesco Express into an independent store to “trade on its own terms”? Do you think they’ll be better off as a result? Lower prices for all? Somewhere you’d go for your monthly shop rather than because you’d run out of milk?

Also the decision has been made to leave it is happening, why is it so wrong to suggest that we get on with it?

Brilliant idea. What would you have us do in order to “get on with it”?

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

If I gave you the reply I want to give you to that, I’d have to ban myself. So instead I’ll offer, don’t you ****ing dare. You’ve made your bed, you own this not us. It is 100% your fault.

Schroedinger’s brexiteer- brexit is simultaneously absolutely fantastic, but also not our fault.

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

What a load of shite!!!

The Tories and all those who voted for Brexit really didn’t appreciate how complicated this whole process was going to be. It was never going to be a case of vote leave and say goodbye.

You are certainly reinforcing the stereotype of the average Brexit voter.

What are we going with next, by the way?

“They need us more than we need them”?

“They’ll cave in at the last minute, they always do”?

Before Dougie-baby outed himself he used a bit of terminology that I thought revealing.

He said we should be ‘stalling’ the end of the transition period due to covid.

Instructive term, that, because it implies that the EU is an institution to be mucked around, played with, manipulated and treated with contempt to get what ‘we’ want.

I think Dougie is someone who has swallowed the years of right wing press drip-drip portraying the EU as hapless idiots one minute and devious evil geniuses the next. Hook, line and sinker.

Faces mounted on vegetables one day, Sith lords the next. It was irreconcilable bullshit then, but some brains are washed easier than others, I guess.

DannyH – nice try!

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process.

Did you read that pre-referendum (Conservative) government document I posted that explained the realistic options as regards replacing EU membership, and the time and cost to move to them? It’s all in there… nothing is taking longer, or costing more, than was expected by anyone who took the time to look into it, and were honest about what they found. You may have been promised free short cuts, but they have never really existed. You have been lied to. Are you angry yet?

Brexiteers who did not accept Theresa May’s brexit deal
Pro Brexit DUP who blocked Boris’ brexit

Yes I blame them too, don’t assume I’m a DUP supporter.

Can’t wait to see the UK dictating it’s trading terms to China and the US. 🤣

You just knew that brexit being a shitshow could never ever be the fault of the people that voted for brexit/Johnson 😂

Guys – dougie has stuck his head above the parapet. Try to shoot him kindly ? Insults are not nice and he has not been offensive himself