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It’ll be the EU’s fault anyway.
Or immigrants/muslims/shirkers/whatever
If we’ve learned anything at all it's that scapegoats co-exist, often necessarily.
ie immigrants/muslims/non-hetero/brown-folk/disabled/poor/unemployed/gypsies/foreigners/EU/The Left
ie if it wasn’t for The Left there would be no EU, no foreigners, no gays, no non-white/non-Swiss immigrants - and even if there were, they’d be in tiny numbers or else kept abroad. Blame The Left. Funded by Jews. Funded by a bigger Jew. Yours Sincerely, The Internet, 2020 and going,forward...
Wow. Tories really are bastards, objectively.
Not just Tories unfortunately, we live in a bitter, twisted and mean country.
Are we conflating migrants and refugees again here or did I miss a news story?
The survey question was overly simplistic but what proportion of the population can clearly differentiate between migrants and refugees?
^ That could be a survey.
The poll as it was presented was loaded and leading.
what proportion of the population can clearly differentiate between migrants and refugees?
If the answer isn't "100%" then we have a problem.
Eh, we have a problem.
Mean spirited, petty, insular, racist/xenophobic and also, ultimately, ignorant and thick.
These are the true defining characteristics of Brexit Britain.
And yet the Brexies think the rest of world view us as some sort of heroes because we held out for a year until the USSR and US got dragged into the war.
🤦♂️
Eh, we have a problem.
We do indeed. That distinction is as good as over in the eyes of much of the public, and the media.
Keep hearing “the first country they arrived in” and “France should do more” from Brexitiers, and I can’t even be bothered to explain any more. At least their motives for their vote are becoming clear for all to see again. Sadly.
Also from that survey…
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1293196618645360640?s=20
The numbers (and international law) speak for themselves… this simply isn’t true… this shouldn’t be opinions to test, but facts to learn. But it’s about feelings not numbers, still. Obviously.
^^^^
Worthless words on a (soon to be) worthless coin.
What an achievement.
Those poll results are sickening. 🙁
I see that Cleverley (oh the irony) has gone full Trump and hit back at Ben & Jerry's for expressing concern at the treatment of refugees by the UK.
In response to concerns about the treatment of refugees he criticised the value for money of their ice cream.
They aren't even really pretending any more, are they?
facts to learn
Well, the survey is about nebulous concepts like "fairness". In this case it's like a small child saying "it's not fair". The survey is not to find out what is fair, but how pathetic and toddler-like the British public are. (Answer: "very")
Well, the survey is about nebulous concepts like “fairness”.
Agreed.
Three near-identical ‘surveys’:
Survey:
Do you think it’s fair that Jane has an apple and yet you don’t have an apple?
A - Very fair
B - Not really fair and I’m feeling rubbish about it actually.
C - Jane should forfeit her apple
Survey:
Do you think it’s fair that an immigrant on a dinghy has an apple and yet you don’t have an apple?A - Very fair
B - Not really fair and I’m feeling rubbish about it actually
C - Jinani should forfeit her apple and go back to where she came from
Survey:
There was a bag of apples. Jane took 2 and you took 5. You ate 5. Jane ate 1. Do you think it’s fair that Jane has an apple and yet you don’t have an apple?
A - Very fair
B - Not really fair and I’m feeling rubbish about it actually
C - Jane should forfeit her apple
Jane should go back where she came from
yougov revenue: £136.5 million (2019)
For what purposes is the data collected by YouGov used?
Data from YouGov surveys are used by news media, public affairs groups, institutions, political campaigns, companies and marketing agencies, to reveal and analyse public opinion.
It’s the future today. Targeted social media campaign feeds bias feeds opinion feeds data feeds targeted social media campaign.
del, spookysynchro-channeling in my edit.
Cleverley
What's the opposite of "nominative determinism"? Ahead of a strong field he is the thickest person in the government.
That's a bold claim.
Johnson still high on the polls
To half the country he’s the hero that ‘got brexit done’ 🙄
This ^^
I'm having first hand experience of this, my elderly parents love him and won't hear anything bad about him to the point my relationship with them has hit rock bottom.
Regarding the rhetoric over the refugees/migrants, even the BBC has become the mouth piece of the government. It makes so angry with all this talk of pushing them back into the sea and let the French deal with them. We are talking about human beings most of whom are desperate to start a new life. Let us not forget that it was our governments who encouraged the Arab spring uprisings, invaded countries (Iraq) on the pretence of installing a flawed UK style democracy. That let in Al Qaeda & ISIS in the first place.
Personally brexshit has messed up my future plans... My wife (who is French) and I were going to be moving to France once the kids had flown the roost. How that will happen now we are not certain.
Jane should go back where she came from
Has to be a contender for 'Internet Winner' today!
🙂
That’s a bold claim.
I don't make it lightly, believe me! So many contenders!
By the way, if you opted for 'c' on the above three surveys, there are two things we can say about you.
1. You probably voted Leave.
2. You are a 'c'.
Isn't it great that we are defending our Christian values such as compassion against the hordes of foreigner invaders and their savage ways.
I don’t make it lightly, believe me! So many contenders!
I think, on balance, it has to go to Chris Grayling hasn't it? A man so incompetent that he couldn't even win a rigged election
Isn’t it great that we are defending our Christian values such as compassion against the hordes of foreigner invaders and their savage ways.
I know right, I'm particularly proud of the way Sky took the opportunity to heckle at them from another boat. A high point of an otherwise uneventful year...
2020 will need a whole book by itself when we come to write the history of the early 21st century.
There's some goddamn heroism right there...
Once one has successfully demonised/verminised immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers (choose whichever term is politically expedient) then they are the gift that will keep giving.
Especially with the climate crisis, rising sea levels and ongoing wars.
Are your domestic policies becoming unpopular/stinking to high-heaven? Just about to rush through some new laws enabling you and your chums to stiff the electorate for the next 50 years, yet make you and said chums more wealthy than they already are? Scrutiny is slow but here it comes...
Quick, look, a dinghy!
Now what was that about the other stuff? Ah, seems that we all forgot. As you were.
Nationalist/populist politics has bullied itself a place at the table on and off for decades. Now it IS the table.
Isn’t it great that we are defending our Christian values such as compassion against the hordes of foreigner invaders and their savage ways.
Hypocrisy knows no bounds when it comes to stuff like this.
Take the Dutch Reformed Church in Apartheid South Africa, for example. You could never meet people who were more keen to tell you how pious they were and how closely they stuck to The Book....
Unless it was towards anyone of a different race, of course. Then all the stuff said in church about treating everyone the same immediately went out of the window.
Funnily enough they also hated 'Godless Communists' whilst the SACP was probably the most vocal 'white' group in opposing apartheid.
This where Bannon really starts to get nasty for me - boasting about mobilising 'Western Judeo Christian' sentiment. Which is just another way of saying 'White Supremacy'.
Speaking of water being wet,
^ How’s trumpfaragebannon’s wider plan to destroy the European Union going? Will they get it back to 1939 before 2039?
At least we have that 0.2% growth from a USA trade deal to look forward to come January… yes?
https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1293621332979089409?s=21
And they were adamant they would not delay due to CV19. Arrogant *****
Just heard (might have misheard) an item on the news about more aggressive powers of arrest at entry and exit points of the UK for individuals suspected of spying or acting in the interests of a foreign power to the detriment of uk security or some such.
Presumably, given the amount of 'questionable' Russian money the Tory Leavers, Aaron Banks, Farage et al have accepted to destabilise this country, they will all be immediately arrested when they go on holiday....
<h2> https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021 </h2>
<h2 id="pet-travel-allow-at-least-4-months-to-arrange">Pet travel: allow at least 4 months to arrange</h2>
From 1 January 2021 you will not be able to use the existing pet passport scheme. Instead you’ll need to follow a different process, which takes 4 months.
Follow the guidance about pet travel to Europe from 1 January 2021.
- You must have your dog, cat or ferret microchipped.
- Vaccinate your dog, cat or ferret against rabies - your pet must be at least 12 weeks old before it can be vaccinated.
- Your pet must have a blood sample taken at least 30 days after its primary rabies vaccination (from a current series of vaccinations). Your vet may recommend a booster rabies vaccination before this test.
- Your pet’s blood sample will be sent to an EU-approved blood testing laboratory.
- Wait 3 months from the date the successful blood sample was taken before you can travel.
- The vet must give you a copy of the test results and enter the day the blood sample was taken in an animal health certificate (<abbr title="Animal health certificate">AHC</abbr>).
You will not be able to travel with your pet if you have not completed these steps.
So if you want to take your dog to Europe in January, you need to start the process now!
At least the dog will only have to go through that rigmarole once as me and MrsRNP **** off to Europe on a one way ticket leaving this litter infested covid riddled shit hole to the Brexit and Tory voting ****s that created it.
Well if that's how you feel good riddance to you some of us are going to try and sort out this mess even though it may take quite a bit of time.
Don't think you can blame rnp for feeling that way and he's in good company. Outward migration is huge at the moment.
some of us are going to try and sort out this mess
Tell me one thing you’re doing to “sort out” this mess, rather than just deal with it as comes at you. I’ll join you in doing it if you can identify it.
Anyone who voted remain is entitled to feel as many of us do, that the UK is now an embarassing mess that doesn't reflect our values. Good luck RNP, I'd also leave if I had the option.
Well if that’s how you feel good riddance to you some of us are going to try and sort out this mess even though it may take quite a bit of time.
I'm all ears - how are we going to sort it?
Didn't think so. Au revoir.
Outward migration is huge at the moment.
It is indeed, and has been since the referendum result. But it’s the nature of the exodus too. Those leaving are The most highly skilled and educated. It’s a brain drain, and those leaving are being welcomed with open arms by more forward-thinking countries in the EU, keen to utilise their skills.
Global Britain, eh? Marvellous.
Well if that’s how you feel good riddance to you some of us are going to try and sort out this mess even though it may take quite a bit of time.
Are we about to be treated to another 'remainers must take their share of the blame too' play?
If so, don't bother. I didn't vote for this.
If someone could provide a list of actions I could practically take as an individual to mitigate the damage this is going to do I am all ears. I presume we've given up actually looking for positives now and are looking to form some kind of 'Dunkirk Spirit' to mitigate totally unnecessary and self-inflicted damage?
Presumably the main thing Leavers think Remainers could do is stop pointing out Leaver stupidity, in which case they are going to be disappointed. I might consider it if Leavers apologised en masse and asked for help to mitigate the damage they have caused. I might even be willing to forego making them march through towns and villages in big pointy hats with placards reading 'idiot' around their necks.
But Leavers never have to apologise, do they? Because....
'Patriotism' I presume.
Anyhoo, get back to me with that list when you've got it, yeah?
1. Emigrate
2. See point 1
3. Err, that’s all I’ve got
Oh, and best of luck RNP. I wish I had the same options, but family ties are too tight on my wife's side to consider leaving this country.
But I wouldn't begrudge anyone who has the opportunity to opt out of this shitshow exercising that option. That sort of petty minded bitterness is what largely caused this whole fiasco in the first place.
I'd be out of here like a shot if I didn't have ageing parents in poor health.
It was the way you phrased your feeling for this country that made me angry. Some of us have not got that option to just leave and have to make the best of it. Hopefully in four years time, if Labour get things right next election, we may be able to get rid of this useless government. Turning your back on the country will not help. I apologize for what I said and I hope you are successful in your new venture.
Turning your back on the country will not help.
And what will “help”? Tell us how we can help undo the damage being done, and we’ll all help you.
His country has turned its back on him. Even if we get a Labour government again at some point in the future, we can not “sort out this mess”… it is a one way street… which is why so many of us wanted to “measure twice cut once”… and were labelled traitors and undemocratic merely for suggesting that.
Thoughts and prayers.
It was the way you phrased your feeling for this country that made me angry.
I feel very little affinity for the concept of this country any more. There are obviously still good people but wider society is increasingly selfish, angry, bigoted, irrational, chaotic, unequal, unfair.
I keep seeing stuff about how 'remainers' need to try and understand Brexit supporters and not condemn them, and I try but it's very hard. I have never seen any slight inkling of understanding going in the other direction.
I can understand Brexit supporters. I can sympathise. The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we'd all be better off out. We won't be.
it’s very hard. I have never seen any slight inkling of understanding going in the other direction.
Why should they? The won and we lost and we need to shut up and get over it, remember.
It is difficult. It's tough not to resort to insults when all we've had coming the other way is hostility, anger and abuse. There are exceptions - we had one on here a few pages back who managed to bring themselves to stop and think and ultimately to reevaluate their position - but they're incredibly rare.
And sure, it might well be the case that the ones still arguing on the Internet are a shouty pineapple-ringed minority that are not representative of "leavers" as a whole. I'd hazard that that's highly likely, even. But they're the only ones who care sufficiently to still be engaging and the bulk of them fall into the "playing chess with a pigeon" category. They don't want to learn anything, they just want to win.
I can understand Brexit supporters. I can sympathise. The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.
I understand at least some of their motives, not all of which were a dislike of brown people. But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.
And when you try and explain this and their response is to go "well I still want it" then, well...
But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.
That's the elephant in their room. Not remainers' rooms.
elephant in their room
Indian, African, or do they hate both as they're forrin and a different colour?
His country has turned its back on him.
The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.
But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.
And when you try and explain this and their response is to go “well I still want it” then, well…
All of the above. I think many of the Brexies who are now having doubts (when was the last time even someone like Rees Mogg tried to pretend there were any upsides, by the way?) still think that this is going to be reversible in some way. It isn't.
Take what is going to happen with US Pharma and drug prices as part of any US trade deal. Once the NHS is exposed to open market drug pricing you can forget chucking a few billion at it every other year. It will immediately wipe out any funding increases and have an immediate and real detrimental impact on the services available.
Now, even if the US elects a hybrid of Mother Teresa, Karl Marx and St Franxis of Assisi, there is no way any of them will dare say to the American people "I am putting up your drug prices so we can give the limeys back their NHS". 100% irreversible. Gone. Forever. For what? Blue Passports.
Interesting that rabid Brexies accuse anyone who expresses doubt about their pet project of treason.
Acting to the detriment of one's own country, I.e. Brexit, seems much closer to the definition of treason than anything any remainers have done.
I’d be out of here like a shot if I didn’t have ageing parents in poor health
If I could afford it, I'd be off too. NZ looks nice...
But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.
And when you try and explain this and their response is to go “well I still want it” then, well…
This is exactly where some of my family and friends are. They are determined that Brexshit will be some kind of overnight solutions to all that is 'wrong' in the UK as they see it. And if not, they still want it and Brexshit will not be a cause of any issues as they see it.
We are in for a bumpy winter of growing discontent IMO.
the bulk of them fall into the “playing chess with a pigeon” category. They don’t want to learn anything, they just want to win shit all over the board.
(A few threads converge here)
‘Don't let Trump rewrite our food standards‘ petition here for anyone interested:
https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/page/s/ProtectUKfoodstandards
malvern - here's a view from the US.
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/512235-us-uk-play-chicken-over-chlorinated-chicken
I totally disagree with the article but it's worth noting as an example of the arguments being put forward; expect there to be a lot more of this.
The arguments are irrelevant, the USA farming lobby will gets the reduced standards they want. We don’t exactly hold all the cards.
That article is full of nonsense though…
the USA
farming lobbyfull stop will get the reduced standards they want as well as pretty much anything else. Wedon’t exactly hold all the cardshave our pants down.
FTFY.
Hopefully in four years time, if Labour get things right next election, we may be able to get rid of this useless government.
Great. And then what?
Most of the damage will be irreversible.
At least the rednecks in the US were smart* enough to Express their little racist/xenophobic pant-shitting in a way that is actually largely reversible after four years.
Not us stoic Brits, though. Oh no, when we **** something up we do it properly.
*I know it was just the same anti-progress lashing out in the US as here and Cletus and Deke wouldn't have been considering anything beyond the next day, but the fact remains that the damage Trump has done and is doing can be largely erased by electing someone who isn't mentally ill. 'Our' shitshow is far worse and long lasting.
And as negotiations gon on the PM and his cabinet do their upmost to insult and upset politicians from over the channel. The news in the Times/Guardian is read by people over here and it's lots of hissy fits about immigrants and Covid, and Germany and... . Read from this side of the channel it's just nasty, provacative, selfish. There was Pritty Patel accusing France of Racism if you looked no further than the misleading headlines and it was little better if you got beyond the headlines. Not a good atmosphere to be begging for better than a raised digit from Europe.
In the interest of balance, I have returned to the UK. Admittedly to study further and I will probably leave again once I have gained all the qualifications that I want. I would also add that employment law here is much better than anywhere in the USA, Canada, Mexico, etc.
And now that the European influence has been "escaped" ...?
The content of this thread, and almost all of its predecessor, have shown how one of the main purposes of this exercise is to do away with all that inconvenient nonsense...
I'm pretty sure one of the 'benefits' of Brexit is 'increased flexibility' for employers in terms of job security and working conditions/safety, leading to a 'more dynamic workforce'.
I would also add that employment law here is much better than anywhere in the USA, Canada, Mexico, etc.
Not for long.
I’m pretty sure one of the ‘benefits’ of Brexit is ‘increased flexibility’ for employers in terms of job security and working conditions/safety, leading to a ‘more dynamic workforce’.
I believe the word of choice amongst tosspot consultants who charge the earth to ruin people's jobs in the interests of 'efficiency' (aka cost-cutting) is 'agility'.
Get someone external in talking about 'agility' and you can guarantee two things:
1. Their hourly rate is extortionate.
2. Everyone below senior management is going to get more work to do for no rise in pay.
Expect many of these buzzword bullshitters to be circling public services in particular like flies on shit.
I don't get this brexiteer thing of all taking responsibility and pulling together to fix their screw up. If you punch yourself in he nuts, I'm not going to massage your balls better, I'm going to stand back and laugh. And that's exactly what I'm going to do after brexit.
If you punch yourself in the nuts, and then kick me and mine even harder in the face then I’m not going to massage your balls better, I’m going to leave you were you chose to be. I choose instead now to leave this place. But you had to add insult to injury by locking us here together and throwing away the key forcing us to watch, listen and suffer as you continue to blame anyone except yourself (or your cult of wreckers) for the shituation
FTFY
Nice to see the lies about improving environmental standards post-brexit being already being firmly exposed for the bullshit they were:
I can understand Brexit supporters. I can sympathise. The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.
My builder yesterday was saying that 'We'll show them all, that lot in brussels. They'll be sorry they forgot about us'
He was talking about the NE of england where I live. I asked him if it wasn't more likely Maggie that created the feeling of being forgotten... His response - 'Well at least she'd have told them where to go.' (The EU that is)
Its basically hopeless. There's a whole generation of people brain washed into thinking that the EU has some significant control over their lives that is somehow out of the hands of our Gov't and they'd be better if only the EU wasn't around doing that bad thing that it does.
lies about improving environmental standards post-brexit
This is going to get so much more messy than even these early signs suggest… both metaphorically and literally. A dirty sore on the edge of Europe, acting politically as if truly a mid-Atlantic island, without really gaining much from that economically.
This situation continues to make me extremely sad. I escaped a couple of years ago to Sweden, but keep looking back and wondering what the hell I can do to help make things better, all the time knowing that there is nothing I can do.
What is worse is that I can see the steady march of nationalism and small, closed minded behaviour gradually making footholds in other countries. It's like Brexit has made other nationalist parties and supporters bolder in what they do and say and has legitimised their behaviour.
I'm glad I got out when I did, but hugely sorry for the people that could not do the same then and cannot now.
‘We’ll show them all, that lot in brussels.
Did you point out that one tenth of "that lot in Brussels" were British MEPs?
They’ll be sorry they forgot about us’
He was talking about the NE of england where I live.
Shove your postcode in here.
They’ll be sorry they forgot about us’
He was talking about the NE of england where I live.
The EU were actually investing in the NE:
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/what-european-union-ever-done-11480870
There’s a whole generation of people brain washed
At least two generations. It takes more than one to get to this stage? The brainwashing/tabloidism has been going in for at least 50 years. It’s as if England became addicted to WW2 rhetoric and then forgot that it wasn’t a tually such a great thing.