Ashes 2013

Probably was told he’d been dropped for the 4th test and decided to jump before being [publicly] pushed.

Perhaps he was going to retire at the end of the series (expected to be his last tour anyway), but was told he wasn’t playing in the next test. Makes sense if he’s no longer first choice and his hearts not in it.

Just speculating though, I don’t know, or care really, he’s made his choice for what he feels is the right reasons which is all anyone can do.

Don’t be bitter.

Don’t be bitter.

This. He’s been a major part of many series wins over the past few years. Be grateful.

This. He’s been a major part of many series wins over the past few years. Be grateful.

Oh I’m grateful alright. He’s been a hugely effective weapon since 2008 and has contributed massively to our successes.

However I stick with my first comment on the matter. Retiring mid series is gutless and smacks of the sort of selfishness that leads to a 5-0 series defeat.

To my mind if he had been told he was dropped for the next test(or possibly both) and that’s what’s prompted this I think it’s poor form. You went out as a squad and you stay united as a squad, even if it’s a turgid experience and you have a limited part to play. As a senior player there was plenty he could have done to encourage and support the others from the dressing room. I hope I’m wrong but on face value he has dropped in my estimation. Quite a sad end to a great career.

However I stick with my first comment on the matter. Retiring mid series is gutless and smacks of the sort of selfishness that leads to a 5-0 series defeat.

So you’d rather he stayed and continued to perform at a standard he knew was no longer competitive?

So you’d rather he stayed and continued to perform at a standard he knew was no longer competitive?

I’d rather he stayed and supported his team mates. Let the selectors decide if he is the best we have to offer and put him in the team even in his ‘diminished’ state.

So you’d rather he stayed and continued to perform at a standard he knew was no longer competitive?

If we applied that rule poor Stokes is in the shit next test as its him stick.

Its mid series he is the first choice he should stay till the end.

Do you reckon he would have done this if it was say 2-1 to either side ?

Right decision, but woeful timing. Surely you have to stay on tour and see it through?

This really is becoming a mid-90s effort now. There’ll be about 8 fully fit players getting off that plane at heathrow, the rest on crutches or with thousand yard stares, just like the good ol days. Some will have been choppered out mid-tour.

**** Great.

So you’d rather he stayed and continued to perform at a standard he knew was no longer competitive?

I’d rather he showed the team, the badge and the supporters some respect and turned himself inside out for the rest of the tour regardless of how he felt or whether he was picked.

I’d rather he showed the team, the badge and the supporters some respect and turned himself inside out for the rest of the tour regardless of how he felt or whether he was picked.

Exactly.

Yossarian has it perfectly. By all means retire at the end of the series (he was already out of the one day squad), but to do so now just seems petulant and selfish. Mind you, having played a fair bit of cricket with and against him in my teens, I would not say this was entirely out of character!

True it was probably time to go. His bowling has become very one-dimensional (no drift through the air to compliment any turn), and his batting has gone totally down the pan. When he was younger he was a genuine allrounder. I just wish he could have seen it through and retired with a bit more dignity and poise than abandoning a sinking ship.

Still, he has been a good player for a reasonably extended period of time and contributed greatly to three ashes wins, so I wouldn’t like to see his record trashed completely.

There just might be more to this than we think. He was probably about to be dropped but there could well be some disagreements in the camp. Too many players are under performing – it can’t be a happy place right now.

Maybe he felt if wasn’t going to be playing he may as well be home with his family.

They’ll probably win the last 2 tests and paper over the cracks again only to be exposed by India in the summer.

Maybe he felt if wasn’t going to be playing he may as well be home with his family.

Surely that’s the point here, though. That is not a healthy attitude to have towards your team and your teammates. He is being paid handsomely for being there too, remember.

I think England’s recent successes have papered over many cracks that were already there. Anderson, Broad, Swann, and Pietersen are all self-absorbed characters who act like kids when things aren’t going their way. Thankfully things have (mostly) gone their way over the last few years. If everyone in that team had the ethos that Prior and Cook in particular exhibit, then it don’t think things would have imploded quite as badly as they have.

In terms of falls from grace, on a team level, this winter has been nothing short of astounding.

South Africa on way to breaking the world record run chase.

There’s a lot crap being guessed here. The team are probably better off with Monty in it and if Swann was going to retire anyway he might as well do it now anyway. What’s the point in him staying, although I’ve not read anything where it says he is going home, but if I was there I’d be telling him to go home and be with his family. He’s done his fair share of tours away from home.

Do you reckon he would have done this if it was say 2-1 to either side ?

No. I also reckon he wouldn’t have had the nagging realisation that he just wasn’t good enough at this level any more, which is what precipitated this.

I’m not quite sure what staying, having made up his mind to retire and the series already lost, would have achieved. Made Monty nervous that he’ll have his place back on the basis of his batting reputation? Prevented a new spinner from finding room in the squad?

South Africa on way to breaking the world record run chase.

9 runs short! Great effort though – must have been gutted. Apparently they were clinging on for the draw by the end (but then hit a six last ball).

I do suppose that cricket in general should be grateful to Swann in one major way. He could well be the last of the great straight arm off spinners. Vaughan was on the radio talking about how Swann had been ‘lucky’ to bowl in the era of DRS. But at least he didn’t chuck it! Not something you can say about Murali, Saqlain, Harbhajan or Ajmal. England even had a go with our own off spin chucker (anyone remember Richard Dawson?)

But at least he didn’t chuck it! Not something you can say about Murali, Saqlain, Harbhajan or Ajmal.

In fairly sure murali’s action was investigated and verified as being proper. The umpire who kept on about it no longer stands.

I never got the impression that Swann was a quitter, so I get the feeling there is a hell of a lot more to this story than Swanny just feeling he can no longer contribute. I wouldn’t be surprised if there had been some sort of incident and it was a case of the management giving him the choice of retiring and it kept quiet or sent home from tour in disgrace.
Either way it’s a pretty disastrous tour, 3 down in the series and 2 of our best performers look set never to play for the team again. Only another 2 tests to go.

Welcome to the 90s – I don’t think I’m the first to suggest that all we’re waiting for is Pieterson (former captain, frustrating in the way he gives away his wicket needlessly) to buzz a match in a biplane.

In fairly sure murali’s action was investigated and verified as being proper. The umpire who kept on about it no longer stands.

I think you might mean the ICC cacked its pants, ‘checked’ his action, changed the rules retrospectively and then said there wasn’t a problem. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

Which umpire by the way? Darryl Hair (who had a problem with Asian players in general and so was rightly edged out) or Ross Emerson, the umpire who called Murali for chucking because that’s what he thought from square leg? Leading to Arjuna Ranatunga holding a gun to the head of the ICC by threatening to take his bat and ball and go home. Which then led to Emerson being hounded out of the higher echelons of umpiring for exposing the ‘holy cow’. Very much in the way David Constant was with the Pakistan team from 92.

This is an area where the ICC have let the promise of a ‘crowd spectacle’ override the basic laws of the game. Dishonourable mentions also to:

Harbhajan
Saqlain
Ajmal
Johan Botha
James Kirtley
Shabbir Ahmed
Shoiab Akhtar
Jermaine Lawson

Unfortunately the culture of turning a blind eye to dodgy actions is endemic now. In my playing days we played a team who had three out of five bowlers who were blatant chuckers. When I asked the umpire (amicably) whether he agreed he said “yes, of course, it’s bloody obvious, but if I call him for chucking it gets referred up the line and will ultimately end up with a letter from Lords. It’s just not worth it”.

If it was 2-1 to either side of course swann would have stayed, as in all likelihood it would mean he was bowling well. However, if the man himself says he was increasingly struggling post op to do anything with the ball relatively when your time is up your time is up.

Yes, it was Hair the racist that I was referring to.

But it’s not turning a blind eye to poor actions. You are correct in stating that the guidelines were changed, and that was because when forensically investigated, most bowlers’ actions exceeded five degrees of flexation.

I can’t find any info on Swann’s action in particular to verify whether or not he too was technically a ‘chucker’ under the old rules.

Turning a blind eye to poor actions has been commonplace for a long time. Sonny Ramadin is one example of a bowler who is lionised, but was actually extremely suspect. Tony Lock also went a long time before being called. Whisper it quietly, but have a look at Ray Lindwall in slow motion as well.

None of this makes it alright, though!

There are telltale signs usually, though. A distinct ‘jerk’ of the arm is one (a jerk that is out of kilter with shoulder rotation). Invariably bowling with rolled down sleeves is another.

An umpire should be able to trust his eye without fear of being hounded into retirement, or getting a reprimand from higher authority if he sees an infringement.

Invariably bowling with rolled down sleeves is another.

So… Swanny, then?

Ha, yes – I did think that as I was typing it!

So, calypso collapso, or KP and Root to trot on?

CHANNEL 9 GET THAT **** PRICK PIERS **** MORGAN OFF MY TV NOW!!!!!!

Glad I’m not watching….

Bell gone. Here we go again…

New ball, Johnson, 90+mph, two overs, two wickets… There’s the main difference between the teams right there. He’s too good and too fast (at the moment) for our middle order and tail – actually make that the whole bloody line up!

He’s too good and too fast (at the moment) for our middle order and tail – actually make that the whole bloody line up!

No he isn’t – that much was demonstrated in Perth. He’s not too good for them when they play well. Any bowler appears too good for them when they play as they have done for most of the day. Pity, Cook and Carberry were running along quite nicely, then, as usual, it all went tits up.

Bloody selfish of Pietersen.

Only interested in himself, grinding out 67no when all those team players fell cheaply… 🙄

Sorry mate the wickets speak for themselves. I didn’t say he’s brilliant just too good for us, both Stokes and Bresnan where done by pure pace, a great line and a little late movement – if that’s not ‘too good’ then I don’t know what is. I don’t rate him as a world class bowler, he’s just in a purple patch and will be undone by better batsman in tests to come but right now he’s one big difference between the two teams. 25 wickets in four 3.1 tests! don’t be so argumentative FFS.

Great quote from David Gower;

“That last spell from Johnson might have just tipped the day Australia’s way”

Really DG? If England pass 275 tomorrow I’ll be surprised. Then Australia on a good wicket with our bowling… Same story different venue unless someone steps up and does something special.

Sorry mate the wickets speak for themselves.

They do. They are mostly the result of batsmen throwing their wickets away, with a few jaffers (Cook’s and Broad’s spring to mind) thrown in. No Australian bowler has won this series for the Aussies, the abject performance of the English batsmen has done that for them. I think Steve Smith would get a Michelle against our lot the way they’re currently playing.

Yes, MJ’s quick, but not unplayable. Harris is by far the better bowler. The difference has been the English cacking themselves and doing stupid things.

If England can reach 300 then I reckon they have a good chance. Unless it rains this isn’t going to be a draw.

Aussies batting last might show some nerves if they need 300ish to win?

Yes, MJ’s quick, but not unplayable. Harris is by far the better bowler.

Yep, with you there completely and I also agree that a lot of this is down to England’s mental attitude but Johnson is much to blame for this, he has them rattled. Gower is a client of mine and I had a chat with him a few years ago about facing the West Indies attack (back then) – his comment was that when the ball hits 90+ make yourself a very thin target 😯

It appears England have got it into their head that it’s about surviving and this is very bad for a batsman, only KP is showing much (mental) resilience but we know how he likes to toss things up every now and then. I do hope he goes on tomorrow, for all his faults he’s a joy to watch and a good score here will silence his naysayers.

and a good score here will silence his naysayers.

He could score 1000 runs in both innings and I still very much doubt he’d achieve that. H8rz gonna h8, etc.