Anti Muslim sentiment accusations

I can’t find the ‘pseudo-intellectual’ comments apart perhaps from a reference to Hitchens, whom I happen to agree with on religion if not on the ME. It’s a been good knockabout stuff but it does reflect how the godbotherers squeal when something’s said that they don’t like. It’s as though their opinions are sacrosanct and therefore beyond criticism and that ‘moderation’ is somehow a good thing. I don’t think JC would have got into the books and magazines had he been a moderate let alone the other fella.

Hardly whining Grum – more angry. It’s just all the same predictable poorly argued shite that frankly isn’t worth hearing again. More willy waving, more posturing and more bollocks on this thread as on other similar threads. It’s dull, and pointless one-upmanship.

Grum, if you can’t take criticism – don’t post. If you feel that passionately about atheism and religious intolerance do something about it rather than bashing a keyboard.

I know just how you feel, the other night I was hugely angered by a TV programme so I watched it for almost two hours, completely outraged the whole time and shouting at the screen.

I know just how you feel, the other night I was hugely angered by a TV programme so I watched it for almost two hours, completely outraged the whole time.

You should buy the Daily Hate, then you can also be outraged every morning whilst eating your cereal…

Grum, if you can’t take criticism – don’t post.

I can take criticism just fine thanks – it’s more the non-specific whining that I have a problem with. By all means criticise some of the things I’ve said, but just moaning about how awful the thread is is utterly pointless.

Hardly whining Grum – more angry. It’s just all the same predictable poorly argued shite that frankly isn’t worth hearing again. More willy waving, more posturing and more bollocks on this thread as on other similar threads. It’s dull, and pointless one-upmanship.

Whereas your posts here are what exactly?

That’s a great idea Footflaps but I’m not sure it’s pseudo-intellectual enough for me.

I know just how you feel, the other night I was hugely angered by a TV programme so I watched it for almost two hours, completely outraged the whole time and shouting at the screen.

😆
it is funny how rude and angry folk are when complaining how rude and angry folk are – it’s either satirical genius or stupidity and often so hard to tell which

but IMO it is incorrect to force those anti-religious beliefs onto others in terms of banning religious education in schools or faith schools in totality.

Your logic is inverted here
Aetheism is not a subject on any syllabus that I am aware of.
Do you have a view on religion being compulsory to study in school to GCSE level ?
Do you have a view on a daily act of worship, christian in nature, being a legal and mandatory part of schooling?
Who is forcing who here?
How could anyone think the atheists are doing the forcing ?
We are asking that religion is ignored in schools just like atheism is
they are asking for it to be taught in all schools and then to have their own special schools as well.
Leave us alone FFS and stop making us pay for your special schools

The main problem with having no religion taught in schools, as I see it, is that once a child receives sufficient knowledge to grasp of the universe, history and the effect religion has had throughout the ages etc, then religion would cease to have any allure, credibility or attraction, so the various religious authorities would lose control of their flock (funny how that’s the collective noun for sheep!).

A friend of mine sends his kid to a state funded Steiner School…. the education system in this country really has gone mad. If you want your child indoctrinated about pixes, fairies, gods or devils you should ha e to pay and even then we should have limits.

Whereas your posts here are what exactly?

Not really a big willy waver TBH, nor am I intellectual enough to be even pseudo-intellectual. What I am saying is what is the point of the thread? It will change almost if not completely nothing. No-one will be any wiser or discover a fantastic insight. Which is a shame because so many threads on STW do!

Its called discussion if you dont like it **** off. Simples.

Its called discussion if you dont like it **** off. Simples.

Don’t mind discussion – but the same discussion, over and over and over again…? The same discussion with the same closed-mindedness. The same discussion with the same people saying the same things. The same over-aggressive posturing that permeates all these discussions. The same discussions with people stating a position with a vehemence that they probably don’t use offline.

Discussion involves a frank exchange of views, where actually you may gain greater insight, understanding or give the same to someone else. This is bombast and soundbites masquerading as discussion. Frankly it is tiresome.

Your logic is inverted here
Aetheism is not a subject on any syllabus that I am aware of.

@Junkyard – I don’t believe my logic is inverted. Others were suggesting that a private school should not be allowed to follow a specific faith programme. This viewpoint I object to. What about a convent school ? We have had these for 100’s of years. Like it or not there is a strong religious element to our history, our country, our laws and our institutions including our schools. The question in today’s Britain is should those institutions reflect a more multi-faith Britain or whether such multi-faith education should only be available outside the state supported sector. I think to disallow all faith schools, even private ones, is totally unacceptable.

Discussion involves a frank exchange of views, where actually you may gain greater insight, understanding or give the same to someone else. This is bombast and soundbites masquerading as discussion. Frankly it is tiresome.

Well see my second point then.

I think to disallow all faith schools, even private ones, is totally unacceptable.

Well I disagree with that. I think we should have complete separation between education and religious indoctrination.

Frankly it is tiresome.

1) Reading it isn’t mandatory, as the ever-diplomatic unspellable_arseypants suggests.

2) If you don’t like the direction the discussion is going why not lead by example rather than whining about it?

3) This kind of thread latterly seems to have started attracting a special kind of poster, one who makes sweeping statements about how the other posters are conducting themselves. As far as I can tell, the various cries of persecution / bullying / posturing / closed-mindedness etc etc appear largely baseless. That is to say, it may well have been true in the past, but the causes of such behaviour has (mostly) been removed; yet, some people seem to thrive on judging others by what’s happened historically. So if you’re going to say that people are doing x, y and z then you’re going to have to cite what you’re referring to, otherwise I’d respectfully suggest that your pants are on fire.

(* – somewhat ironically given the thread’s subject matter)

anagallis_arvensis – Member
Well see my second point then.

I take it you used to take your toys away if the game didn’t go your own way…?

No, just trying to help you out. If the threads so pointless and tiresome for you then dont post.

The purpose of a faith based school is to indoctrinate children into a given faith system. You may argue that religious education is not the same as indoctrination and you would be correct. Religious education would be the teaching of religious history and beliefs accross the various world religions to help children develop an understanding of religions and their place in the history and present of mankind. Faith schools on the whole do not do this. Instead they offer a typically monotheistic education citing the relgion of the school as the “correct” religion and reinforcing that view through repetition and immersion, that is a fair defintion of indoctrination.

I am glad that people are finally speaking out against the indoctrination of children as it’s shameful and disgusting. In regard to the OP’s post – I believe it is fair to say that the media and others are questioning how some islamic schools operate and coming up in some cases with very disturbing answers. When I see little people dressed up in religious garb I find it so, so sad.

Couger, its not unspellable its latin aint it. Had you gone to a good catholic school you might be able to spell it.

jambalaya

Ah right i took it out of context, Sorry.

I think ban would be OTT but i dont want to pay for it or have it forced on me.
If they pay they can , begrudgingly * do as they please.

* wont someone think of the children

The government have a body that watch the ins and outs of there practices
for years. Surprised people think this is actuarially new news ?

Couger, its not unspellable its latin

Iron. Ing.

(unspellable_arseypants suffers ‘recognition of sarcasm’ failure).

Anyway – god in schools, eh? No thanks. 😀

It is fascinating how the discussion has digressed. There have been very few direct responses to my questions in the op. I really wasn’t asking for opinions on religious preference or whether RI is acceptable in schools. More whether the current reporting of possible extremist teaching in specifically Islamic schools was bias, and/or whether people feel the Muslim community is trying to hide something.

Iron. Ing.

(unspellable_arseypants suffers ‘recognition of sarcasm’ failure).

Whoosh…..
Latin, Catholicism, schools, yes? No?
Never mind.

Blimey. I just read all this, and I can’t believe people are arguing about it!

Surely, experience teaches us that if someone believes I made up nonsense like religion – no amount of reasoning will sway them. Just avoid the nutters in real life.

More whether the current reporting of possible extremist teaching in specifically Islamic schools was bias,

Some of it some of it is not.

and/or whether people feel the Muslim community is trying to hide something

Some of them are some of them are not

HTH

What’s your evidence and /or research for those statements Junkyard?
Or am I missing an implied inflection in the tone of your text? 🙂

Should this be surprising to non Muslims? – What the **** has it got to do with non Muslims? do Muslims have a right or indeed any inclination to investigate and oppose the Christian Sunday School across the road from me?

Is this something you are concerned about and what possible negative outcome could result in withdrawing interference? – I’m no expert but I’m pretty certain there are all sorts of different schools around the world with many different languages, approaches and religions as their base.. Do we feel threatened by Steiner schools for example?

Do you believe there is false reporting and possibly a deliberate attempt to bolster anti Muslim sentiment from within the government as suggested? – Possibly, but only cos there is no sane alternative explanation for any sort of outcry..

As far as I’m aware. Steiner schools aren’t under investigation at the moment.
I’m asking what you believe. I asked questions. If I wanted to make sweeping statements, I would have done so in the op and the thread would then be a discussion of my views.

Do you really want me to expand

Sometimes some of the anti muslim thing is just that – Halal meat is one i tend to think is just anti muslim rhetoric. You are eating chickens industrial bred in pens they cannot move and then served to you in a bucket from an american company. You then want to discuss your heritage being ruined and animal welfare issue.. I dont believe you. Ditto schools some just use it as a rod to beat them

However I have worked in an Islamic girls school for almost 1 minute till my penis meant I was banned.
My organisation would never had given in to sexism amd IMHO racism had a “white school” asked for a male white person for example.

They also struggle to teach art and music due to their interpretation and I doubt they cover evolution all that well. I think they are more dogmatic/faith based than other [christian] religions

i have no experience of other faith schools

Sorry.. I wasn’t specifically having a pop at you gears suck.. just at the blatant demonisation of islam that seems so **** normal and acceptable in our society

Regardless of everyone else’s beliefs or efforts, Islam seems to be making a fair fist of demonising itself in our society at the moment. When it condemns terrorism across the board, renounces Sharia law, stops persecuting its own womenfolk, and promotes blanket tolerance towards non-Muslims, then it can come and play with the other children again.

(aaah… good ninja edit – sound points)

well.. I would say that they have every reason to be paranoid that war is being waged against them..

The way our media covers any remotely iffy (or horrendous) story that occurs within the immensely huge and diverse global Islamic community and screams ‘look at them… this is what they are like’

It’s bollocks innit

, Islam seems

Some of Islam seems Cougar, some of

All creeds have their extremists even MTB ers – not meaning you and not just SS either.

“seems”

Every group has their extremists; however wouldn’t most reputable groups do something about extremists who didn’t actually reflect their views rather than go “nowt to do with us guv,” maybe exercise their majority to try and persuade them that they’re not representative?

They do but we hear little about it as it does not sell newspapers

Interestingly my mate[ Blackburn] had this at his mosque way before 9/11 with extremists infiltrating it. They went to the police who said it had nothing to do with them
The community fought back and reclaimed the mosque and also the youth and noe work very closely with the police and tackle this issue often.

FWIW most of the extremists are mentally ill with a history of drug abuse and are often converts to Islam.
They do work against this but few of us know any Muslim sor go down the mosque to know what they fdo and most importantly this does not sell papers
When did you last read a positive EU story ? A positive story about someone on benefits? or a cyclist story ?
Same for Muslims but they are more scary

We hear of the islamic nutters like we hear of the cyclist who ride on pavements and we do nothing to stop them or RLJ either- same old same old

wouldn’t most reputable groups do something about extremists who didn’t actually reflect their views

How would that happen though?

When a Christian person or extremist group performs an atrocity do we each personally as part of a global Christian community jump up and stride out into the world to calm everyone down and allay fears?

Do you?

I’m pretty sure that for every specific incident, Muslim leaders in the effected communities come out to state that the shit that went down was not in the name of Islam..?
Are there not police and armed forces in each localised incident tackling the problem to the best of their abilities..?

Yunki did you get an e-mail from me /STW re your P?

errrrr non..?

How recently..? I cleaned out the last few weeks inbox with a flamethrower yesterday