I think Cougar failed in that respect personally.

All religions can have this but they are still not typical of that faith and you can chastise the majority of the faith for the actions of a tiny minority.

Some jews will defend Israel no matter what it does

Some buddhists will attack Muslims and murder them

Some Christians will target Gays – Uganda

Arguably [ very arguably but I think their faith was an issue here personally ] Blair and Bush had a holy war so that’s the christians covered

They all have nutters
none are typical of their faith.

Although Sunni Muslims are responsible for something ridiculous like 75 percent of the worlds terrorist attacks over the course of the previous decade.

Although I guess that depends on what you count as terrorism, state sanctioned bombings are almost invariably never counted.

The difference is now that a large body of the Christian world has become secularised (Europe mostly, with the USA to a lesser degree), so that most Christian extremism/terrorist activity is localised to Africa.

I do feel that the Koran might justify violence a little more easily (but this is open to debate of course) and when this is married to an environment where people feel downtrodden, have very little in the way of real prospects and the young men who don’t have jobs or wives are cast aside…..then the results are quite literally explosive. You only have to look at the latest shooting in the States and extrapolate that to the middle east….imagine those types of young men in a poorer country with an environment of religious conservatism.

However, the nutters are the ones who are faithful to the teachings of their respective holy books and the moderates conveniently ignoring some texts.

Thankfully most religious faithful are happy to follow the moderate clerics, but when you read the texts it’s the nutters who are making the most literal and accurate interpretation. Words like “stone” and “put to death” are unambiguous. In a society that rigorously applied the laws in any of the major religions I would have been put to death years ago.

I think when religionists start growing beards that’s when the problems start.

I don’t have a problem with people hating terrorism or terrorists. I don’t have an issue with people not liking religion. Despite having a belief myself I’m not over-keen on religion in schools either nor on the replacement of scientific theory regarding evolution replaced by creationism.

I do however have a massive problem with a lack of tolerance or acceptance that people have a right to different views. There has been to my mind quite a lot of that on this thread. If people can’t respect the right of others to have differing opinions they should live a life in isolation.

There has also been some significant comment regarding whether criticism of Islam is or should be considered racist. Racism is only one form of prejudice. Without doubt there has been a lot if prejudice on this thread. Ascribing negative views, beliefs and values to a group of people because of one or other characteristics without substantive evidence is prejudice in action.

I personally think if we had been discussing homosexuality in the way we have seen the discussion progress on Islam this thread would have been closed by the Mods long ago…

I do feel that the Koran might justify violence a little more easily (but this is open to debate of course)

I don’t know anything about Buddhism but I’m sure I could find a scholar or cleric to back my political project up with some pretty fighty Buddhist rhetoric if I made it worth my while.

I personally think if we had been discussing homosexuality in the way we have seen the discussion progress on Islam this thread would have been closed by the Mods long ago…

Religion bashing has always been considered fair game here. It’s normally one a week.

Always good for many pages.

Edukator – Troll 
However, the nutters are the ones who are faithful to the teachings of their respective holy books

Is an interesting interpretation!?!

chewkw – Member

Oh ya btw if you ever lived in a Muslamic country then you should know that they practically anti all other belief systems. i.e. opposite to yours.

Which is ironic, because Islam is designed to be a compatible religion- being launched into a crowded marketplace they couldn’t take on the established products head-on so they did a cunning backwards compatability thing and declared that the “people of the book”- christians, jews and IIRC zoroastrians- are cool with them. Sort of like old vs new testament, “Yeah these dudes are basically doing Islam Version 1, they just don’t know it, here’s Service Pack 2”

It’s not the specific religion that’s the issue – all the Abrahamic ones adhere to the same values:

The words in The Book are the same, just in a different order. 🙂

Christianity and Islam have historically pretty rarely been in synch when it comes to doctrinal literalism and it’s unfortunate consequences.
Islam went through it’s last great golden age whilst we were still flinging pig shit at each other and burning goats.

Most people are fine.

zippykona – Member

I think when religionists start growing beards that’s when the problems start.

It’s not the specific religion that’s the issue – all the Abrahamic ones adhere to the same values:

The words in The Book are the same, just in a different order.
That’s nonsense (all of it).

The words in The Book are the same, just in a different order.

All the right words — but not necessarily in the right order.

^^ 😀

I do however have a massive problem with a lack of tolerance or acceptance that people have a right to different views. There has been to my mind quite a lot of that on this thread. If people can’t respect the right of others to have differing opinions they should live a life in isolation.

Seems you can’t respect the right of others to have a negative opinion of religion.

And religion and homosexuality are not comparable. Religion is just an opinion/belief – just because it’s been around a long time and people ascribe great importance to it doesn’t make it intrinsically more worthy of respect.

And of course the irony that they are not respecting others views different to their own
TBH it is not like the message any religion has to a non believer is that nice. I say you are wrong I am not suggesting you be killed because you disagree with me as some religious followers are still doing today.
IMHO the intolerance starts with the faithful. We are, after a thousand years, just fighting back [ not literally] and giving you more rights than you ever gave us.

I don’t know anything about Buddhism but I’m sure I could find a scholar or cleric to back my political project up with some pretty fighty Buddhist rhetoric if I made it worth my while.

Buddhist 969- though they are a bit more like a Buddhist EDL with added violence [ and sophist denial of it]

Religion bashing has always been considered fair game here. It’s normally one a week.

Are we guilty of blasphemy ? Are we not allowed to critique it now ?
Lots of stuff gets challenged on here be it conspiracy theories, homeopathy, religion, 650B, will rUK give iS the pound [ would you say that was a polite discussion of those you dislike?]

Seems you can’t respect the right of others to have a negative opinion of religion.
And religion and homosexuality are not comparable. Religion is just an opinion/belief – just because it’s been around a long time and people ascribe great importance to it doesn’t make it intrinsically more worthy of respect.

No, you’ve clearly not read my posts clearly.

– I’m sick of the same old same old atheism vs. religion arguments. We all know how they begin and end and it is dull.
– I don’t have any problem if people don’t like religion – it’s a view and that is fine. I don’t really care if you like religion either.
– Everyone has a right to hold a view – any view. It doesn’t matter how ridiculous it may seem to others, how illogical, ludicrous etc…
– We don’t have a right to object to people having views
– I didn’t say homosexuality and religion are the same – that is ridiculous. Prejudice is prejudice though, once you start to ascribe negativity to people because they are ‘different’ for any reason that is prejudice. Prejudice is wrong.

I’m sick of the same old same old atheism vs. religion arguments

Then ignore them

Everyone has a right to hold a view – any view. It doesn’t matter how ridiculous it may seem to others, how illogical, ludicrous etc…

You are absolutely right.
The problem comes when that view has consequences for others who do not share that view.

Christianity:
One woman’s lie about having an affair that got seriously out of hand!!

It’s hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain refuses to condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan. Or the lady stoned to death in Pakistan. Their Twitter feed is whining on about the rise of “Islamophobia” in Britain instead.

I don’t think people are afraid of, or worried about Muslims in the UK. What a lot of people do have (and I count myself here) is a healthy dislike for any organised – particularly Abrahamic – religion, especially one interpreted in such an archaic and backwards fashion.

Until they get the message across to the great unwashed that the dark age practices in Africa have no place in modern Islam, they’re effectively condoning the practice.

You have conflated what Islam stands for and what a tiny minority of nutters do in it’s name and this is the reason you are getting grief IMHO

I’m going to have one last go at explaining myself and then I’m going to let it lie.

I’m not saying, as I’m sure you know, “all Muslims are nutters.” I’m saying that many non-Islamic people’s perception of Islam is not a positive one. Some people are scared of the “rise of Islam” in the UK, and UKIP and and the BNP are gaining ground; whether that’s causation or mere correlation I don’t know but it’s a worrying trend.

If as some folk are saying (and some aren’t so I’m not sure why it’s just me getting picked apart) Islam is being misrepresented, then that needs addressing before things get much worse. By who and how, I’m not sure.

I do however have a massive problem with a lack of tolerance or acceptance that people have a right to different views

This is a logic bomb, because we’re really talking about whether it’s ok to tolerate intolerance. A common theme in many religions is “hey, be like us and get a reward, don’t be like us and be punished.” I’m struggling to see how this is anything other than institutionalised intolerance. And when we question that, we’re the ones being intolerant? Sheah.

Religion bashing has always been considered fair game here.

Religious debate is fair game. This thread has hardly been a one-way “lets all gang up and say how crap Islam is” discussion now, has it. Would you prefer censorship, or just special privilege?

I’m sick of the same old same old atheism vs. religion arguments.

I’m sick of people whining rather than contributing. All threads aren’t mandatory reading, door’s that way.

I don’t like football, but I don’t hang around the Man United thread bleating on about it, I just don’t read those threads.

Those who do enjoy the finer points of discussing, oh I don’t know, whatever armchair footballists like to talk about, offsides or something, can do so to their hearts’ content. And I’m sure they’re a hotbed of new and insightful points that have never been discussed before, and people regularly realise the errors of their ways and decide to support Liverpool instead.

A little light entertainment on the subject for a Saturday morning. Enjoy…
http://m.tickld.com/x/i-wish-this-man-was-my-father-hes-hilarious

It’s hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain…

…WGAF what they say? It’s three old men with an internet account and a good line in press releases. What was Mary Whitehouse’s opinion of the Iran-Contra deals?

The thread could do with a gay lapsed Muslim to contribute.

The thread could do with a gay lapsed Muslim woman to contribute.

FTFY

Morning, Cup of tea anyone? – Was a bit drunk last night and just sorting a bacon sandwich to soak it up a bit – Neither of which I could do under Islam.

Northwind – Member
Which is ironic, because Islam is designed to be a compatible religion- being launched into a crowded marketplace they couldn’t take on the established products head-on so they did a cunning backwards compatability thing and declared that the “people of the book”- christians, jews and IIRC zoroastrians- are cool with them. Sort of like old vs new testament, “Yeah these dudes are basically doing Islam Version 1, they just don’t know it, here’s Service Pack 2”

Unfortunately, this is the moderate views but for the more extreme ones they use this sort of argument to convert others. I know because many of the natives got converted this way. They did not see them coming.

Junkyard – lazarus

I don’t know anything about Buddhism but I’m sure I could find a scholar or cleric to back my political project up with some pretty fighty Buddhist rhetoric if I made it worth my while.

Buddhist 969- though they are a bit more like a Buddhist EDL with added violence [ and sophist denial of it][/quote]

Yes, Buddhist is very practical. If someone slaps you on your right cheek you either avoid being slapped again or you retaliate in full might. Unlike the teaching of some nice guy by the name of Jesus, we don’t turn the left cheek to be slapped again coz that’s simply stooopiiidd.

As for 969 I have no problem with that because if you live in that region i.e. South East Asia, then you will know the situation of religion encroachment if not put in check will create more trouble later on. Indonesia and Philippines as examples. No we don’t need the Western views to teach us right from wrong and no you should not invade Burma again. No, I don’t support that Burmese Lady and if the Burmese Lady is going to intervene in the matter of religion her support will evaporate overnight. She is just a Burmese Lady so nothing special there. To the “fire starter” Western ideology she is a “saint”. I can assure you that there are more saintly person than her there. No, this Demoncracy should not be forced upon on the people. Ya, stooopid people think demoncracy will solve everything. Look at Thailand demoncracy is simply a way to split the nation. Go away demoncracy! This western ideology is just a pest. The region has demoncracy their own way.

You are absolutely right.
The problem comes when that view has consequences for others who do not share that view.

Yes it does – and I have a massive issue with that too.

It’s hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain refuses to condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan.

One google search later.

Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, Assistant Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain and Paul Hendricks, Auxiliary bishop of Southwark Diocese, write: “As Co-Chairs of the Christian Muslim Forum, we call for compassion in this situation and for the death sentence against Mariam Yehya Ibrahim Ishag to be dropped

Until they get the message across to the great unwashed that the dark age practices in Africa have no place in modern Islam, they’re effectively condoning the practice.

You could have said christian treatment of gays in Uganda and also have claimed [ incorrectly] that they dont speak out about it here.

I’m saying that many non-Islamic people’s perception of Islam is not a positive one.

Its not their fault your /their views are wrong
The media manipulate folk – see the EU and immigration or benefits. Look at the rates the UK population give for immigration, benefits rates, benefits cheats etc also totally at odds with reality.
You never see positive stories and it is rather hard for the weak and the powerless [ including Muslims] to gain access to the media and to influence the agenda.
You seem to think it is their fault folk have this misconception rather than blame the folk who lie and distort.

Flaperon – Member

It’s hardly helping when the Muslim Council of Britain refuses to condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan.

What the hell has it got to do with the Muslim Council of Britain ?

I could understand if it was the Muslim Council of Sudan that you were referring to but why the Muslim Council of Britain ? Has the British Koi Carp Society voiced their disapproval, or have they also remained silent on the issue ?

Oh no wait, I know……it’s because when one Muslim does something wrong or unacceptable all other Muslims throughout the word are responsible for that – that’s it isn’t it ? ffs

But as Junkyard points out the Assistant Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain did indeed condemn the death sentence passed on a young woman in Sudan, so you were talking bollocks anyway.

I’m still waiting to hear from the British Koi Carp Society on the matter. Until then I’ll assume they are condoning the death sentence.

there silence is indeed fishy ernie

IGMC

I’ve asked the Koi Keepers society for their view on the matter, but so far no response. In fairness it’s been two years since their last tweet, so I’m not expecting a prompt reply.

@ernie_lynch

I don’t know if you have personal problems or work issues, and come here to take your anger out on others, but it’s really obvious. Try reading your posts back to yourself before clicking submit, ’cause right now you’re coming across like the angry man on a street corner shouting at dustbins.

This thread was about UKIP-style anti-Muslim sentiment. The general sentiment is that because of backwards policies in the rest of the world Muslims at home are being unreasonably targeted, despite the fact they despise what’s going on in Africa and the remoter parts of Pakistan.

Therefore their situation here is not being helped by the organisation that claims to represent Muslims in Britain keeping mum on the subject.

I didn’t see the quote you’re referring to; I merely looked on their website and Twitter feed.

Me angry ?!! 🙂

On the contrary, it amused me how you held accountable people in this country for something which they clearly weren’t responsible for, and which happened thousands of miles away in a different country, hence my little joke about the British Koi Carp Society ….. you did realise that it was a joke didn’t you ?

And to add further to my amusement was the fact that the claim you made wasn’t even true ! How ironic !

But my leg-pulling and teasing has obviously made you every angry and for that I’m sorry – it wasn’t my intention 😐

And yes, I am aware what this thread is about – it’s about people lumping all Muslims together and holding them accountable for the behaviour of a minority. I detect more irony there.

Until they get the message across to the great unwashed that the dark age practices in Africa have no place in modern Islam, they’re effectively condoning the practice.

There’s some seriously awful things being done in Africa in the name of christianity – torture and murder of children for instance.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/10/churches-involved-in-torture-murder-of-thousands-of-african-children-denounced-as-witches/

I can only assume from the Archbishop of Canterbury’s silence on the issue that he condones it – when will he speak up? When will ordinary moderate christians denounce it – their silence speaks volumes TBH.

When you stop thinking of people as individuals it’s easier to demonise them.

I remember being spat on during the annual Whit Walks into Manchester as a five year old kid.
Odd, because all the Catholic families I knew along with our churches and schools were all regularly the loudlest and most passionate opponents of violence.

Made no difference, the ignorance displayed toward Catholisism in the UK, the most tolerant and fair minded of countries, is still staggering.
And we only lived in Manchester, what it must have been like in NI for all concerned I’ve no idea.

God knows how the majority of peaceful, moderate decent Muslim families in the UK must feel.

I’m an atheist myself, but to say that a moderate interpretation of the Koran is fundamentally worse than an equally moderate interpretation of the Bible is questionable indeed.
All religions are equally fundamentally flawed in theory, but the variety of interpretation is infinite.
And humans are very easily influenced.

come here to take your anger out on others, but it’s really obvious.

I thought he came her eto give great insights and take the piss [ I am often blisfully ignorant to which he is doing at anyone given time but, tbh, I think that is may failing and not his 😳

their situation here is not being helped by the organisation that claims to represent Muslims in Britain keeping mum on the subject

Yes that is what some have claimed and they are wrong
Instead of ernie reading his why dont you google yours?

And humans are very easily influenced.

Even the atheists

Which is ironic, because Islam is designed to be a compatible religion- being launched into a crowded marketplace they couldn’t take on the established products head-on so they did a cunning backwards compatability thing and declared that the “people of the book”- christians, jews and IIRC zoroastrians- are cool with them. Sort of like old vs new testament, “Yeah these dudes are basically doing Islam Version 1, they just don’t know it, here’s Service Pack 2”

Historically, thats always been if you submit to their rule though.

Morning, Cup of tea anyone? – Was a bit drunk last night and just sorting a bacon sandwich to soak it up a bit – Neither of which I could do under Islam.

I suggest you don’t become a Muslim, then.

Morning, Cup of tea anyone? – Was a bit drunk last night and just sorting a bacon sandwich to soak it up a bit – Neither of which I could do under Islam.

I know someone who considers themselves a Muslim who drinks booze and eats bacon. They are also gay.