All Pledge Allegiance to the New King

@convert of course (and thinking of Andrew in particular) having served doesn’t remove any innate bellendery.  That’s the thing, there are idiots and good lasses/fellas, right wing ‘traditionalists’ and plenty of a more progressive mindset in the forces. Clever/thick, funny/boring.  All sorts. Just ordinary people and as you say, a reflection of the society they are recruited from. It’s just the lazy thinking which paints all members of the forces into one identical stereotype that boils my piss.  Especially when it’s done by people who would rightly complain when the same thinking was applied to any other group.

@blokeuptheroad

It’s all ‘hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle’ for a bunch of thicko racists and bigots following some plumby, privately educated gentry in the Army. Didn’t you get the memo?

 it is a slow and ungainly beast in regards to change. It gets there eventually, painfully slow as it can be.

Agreed, but then show me an organisation that is 80,000-100,000 strong that isn’t resistant to and slow to accept change?

Agreed, but then show me an organisation that is 80,000-100,000 strong that isn’t resistant to and slow to accept change?

Exactly that.

@prolapsed_mandy No I missed it! 😊

Not all but much more than a fraction.

You cannot say that with any confidence. Unless it’s the confidence of an idiot.

You are calling me an idiot because you think that there isn’t a significant number of bigots and racists in the armed forces?

Can you explain why there would be people wearing spurs when going to dinner at 7.00pm on a Wednesday but don’t have a horse? Apart from it being absolute brain washing cultist BS?

Apols RM – ‘@prolapsed_mandy’ was a retort to ‘blokeupthemiddle’😜

why there would be people wearing spurs when going to dinner at 7.00pm on a Wednesday but don’t have a horse?

For the same reason that sailors who’ve yet to cross the equator get welcomed by Neptune and the shellbacks, and the same reason why in some messes, if you’ve not celebrated Minden Day you get a rose to eat.

For the same reason that sailors who’ve yet to cross the equator get welcomed by Neptune and the shellbacks, and the same reason why in some messes, if you’ve not celebrated Minden Day you get a rose to eat.

Which is “absolute brain washing cultist BS”.

Tradition.

Not saying it is not BS, but it helps bring people together.

it helps bring people together.

Well that absolutely proves my point.

I’d be careful using anything I say as proof of something. I am not a reliable source of verifiable information.

Can you explain why there would be people wearing spurs when going to dinner at 7.00pm on a Wednesday but don’t have a horse? Apart from it being absolute brain washing cultist BS?

It’s OK because we take the spurs off after dinner to play mess rugby with a cabbage.  What? Nowt wrong with that! 😉 As @nickc has already explained.  Is a Scots soldier wearing trews or a kilt, or an Irish soldier a caubeen doing it because it’s ‘absolute brain washing cultist BS’?

Which is “absolute brain washing cultist BS”

If you’re going to ask that people literally put their lives on the line, then the indulgence of a few harmless traditions to bind folks to a common cause isn’t really cultish behaviour. You probably have family traditions that make perfect sense to you, or are funny or irreverent, that look odd to “others”.

as BUTR suggests; the Army is who it recruits from, and that’s the UK as a whole, and reflects the UK as a whole.

There’s a level of brain washed bullshit in some of these posts, and it’s not coming from who they think it is….

Is a Scots soldier wearing trews or a kilt, or an Irish soldier a caubeen doing it because it’s ‘absolute brain washing cultist BS’?

Partly but not quite as extreme. Uniforms are all part of it. The spurs are turning it up to 11.

I bet the officers mess in those cavalry regiments is full of free thinking, open minded people, who reflect the broad make up of our society.

oh please “Invited” is softer sounding than “asked”, straws being clutched for there. Does it sound soft when invited to help police with their inquiries ?

It’s all semantics. You can’t be forced to make any sort of pledge, so regardless of how the invitation is phrased, it’s simply that. Honestly, if people want to make some sort of meaningless personal pledge to the royal family, it’s their own call.

If they want to inflict it on other people, that’s a different matter. If they’re going to do it in public spaces – down the pub for example – they’ll probably cop some light-hearted abuse.

The only thing that’s really clear is that it’s a huge PR howler that posts up a huge virtual billboard saying look at us, we’re a ridiculous anachronistic institution, so mired in the past that we can’t actually see how stupid and outdated this whole thing looks.

On the plus side, it may make more people think a little harder about what monarchy is. Hint: from the lovely people who also brought you an anachronistic rights of way system based on a culture of toadying deference to things that no longer make any sense.

the Army is who it recruits from, and that’s the UK as a whole, and reflects the UK as a whole.

Bit of a stretch there with the last bit; the Army is overwhelmingly white (10% in non-commissioned ranks and 2% of officers are BAME and a large proportion of these aren’t UK nationals) and male,Sandhurst takes a massively high proportion of public school entrants, 49%.

Not really a reflection of wider society.

Apols RM – ‘@prolapsed_mandy’ was a retort to ‘blokeupthemiddle

Can we have our usernames changed? 🤣

A lot more regiments/corps wear spurs with mess dress than just cavalry.

But, we are straying a little off track from the topic of the new king. I’m not sure this was supposed to be a thread about military traditions in the modern age.

I bet the officers mess in those cavalry regiments is full of free thinking, open minded people, who reflect the broad make up of our society.

A quick google suggests that ‘nearly 50%’ of army officers went to public school, compared to less than 10% of the general population. It’s also possible that cavalry regiments actually have a higher percentage of privately educated officers than the army as a whole, given that they tend to be traditionally, erm, posher than some other parts of the army. Of course that doesn’t mean they’re not free-thinking, open-minded people, but it doesn’t really ‘reflect the broad make-up of our society’. And let’s not even talk about ethnic make-up etc.

Well that absolutely proves my point

It really doesn’t.

I bet the officers mess in those cavalry regiments is full of free thinking, open minded people, who reflect the broad make up of our society.

Well, if you are going to distil your whole view of the army down to a cavalry regiment officers mess, then I can see why you are a little confused.  Perhaps visit an officers mess in garrison of mixed cap badges, a sergeants or corporals mess in an infantry battalion or any number of squadron/unit bars to get a more rounded view.  I’ve no idea what you do for a living, but if I was to extrapolate from your posts on here, exactly how everyone in your profession thought, behaved or how brain washed they were, would that be reasonable?

A quick google suggests that ‘nearly 50%’ of army officers went to public school, compared to less than 10% of the general population

You know the military pays for that for soldiers kids too right? So the stats may not confirm what you think.

Given all the stuff the Brexies came out with about overpaid, unelected folk holding senior positions representing their countries, have Farage, Rees-Mogg et al spoken out against the coronation yet?

I bet they’re just biding their time for maximum impact. 😉

Not really a reflection of wider society.

Fair point @kilo, at least the armed forces recognise it, publish statistics about it, and are trying to improve it

Military.

Look at it one way its ” esprit de corps”   Look from a different direction its indoctrination

Without it a military could not function.  Its also often stated that those fighting doing it for their buddies as thats concrete and immediate – not for an intangible like a country of a monarch.  Its not 100% – I guess the Ukranians have a lot of thought for their country but when the bullets start flying…….?

I guess the Ukranians have a lot of thought for their country but when the bullets start flying…….?

Don’t **** die, don’t let your mates **** die.

When the rounds start whizzing, all the patriotic jingoism that some may hold belief in abandons you real quick. Nothing like your life genuinely being in mortal danger to focus the mind on what is important in life.

You know the military pays for that for soldiers kids too right? So the stats may not confirm what you think.

Good point, quite a few friends went to boarding school due to parents posting.

Including a woman of definitely non-white origin, just to mess up the stereotypes even further

Pretty accurately sums it up OP. The Royal family could be wiped from the face of the earth tomorrow and it wouldn’t even warrant a shrug of the shoulders from me. Appreciate the extra BH though – looking forward to spending the day biking/fishing/gardening/tinkering with cars.

Good point, quite a few friends went to boarding school due to parents posting.

Including a woman of definitely non-white origin, just to mess up the stereotypes even further

I left a bog standard comprehensive school at 16 to join the army as an apprentice technician.  Both of my ‘kids’ (now in their 30s) went to boarding school for part of my time in the army, it was the only way they could get continuity of education as I moved around during key teaching/exam stages.  Before boarding school they also attended state schools in Scotland and Northern Ireland as well as forces schools in Germany and Cyprus.

Neither joined the forces, but if they did – thinking they were from a ‘posh’ background because they went to boarding school would have been a mistake.  Quite a lot of ex public school service personnel who followed their parents into the military are in the same situation.

the Army is overwhelmingly white (10% in non-commissioned ranks and 2% of officers are BAME and a large proportion of these aren’t UK nationals) 

The officers’ position is obviously wildly unrepresentative of UK society.

But noncomissioned ranks being 10% BAME when the UK as a whole is a touch less than 13% BAME isn’t wildly out of skew.

UK Population 2022

Not all but much more than a fraction.

Don’t you know how fractions work?

Can you explain why there would be people wearing spurs when going to dinner at 7.00pm on a Wednesday but don’t have a horse?

Possibly the same reason that the pubs are often full of middle-aged blokes wearing football strips despite not having kicked a ball since they were 16.

But noncomissioned ranks being 10% BAME when the UK as a whole is a touch less than 13% BAME isn’t wildly out of skew.

38.7% of the BAME personnel aren’t UK nationals so the percentage is arguably a lot less representative

On the non-commissioned percentages you’d probably need to correct for sociology-economic background too

The prevailing socio-economic backgrounds in the general UK population that typical in the non-commissioned ranks will probably be higher than 13% BAME in that general population.

I think this is the actual reason for the coronation ceremony – so you lot arguing up above can have a street party, get drunk and have naked group hugs and argue about the colour of the boathouse in Heffeeffudd

get drunk and have naked group hugs and argue about the colour of the boathouse in Heffeeffudd

So long as they stick to beer and not coffee shouldnt be to bad.
Naked hugs and someone wanting to win the argument could be very unpleasant.

I think this is the actual reason for the coronation ceremony

@ElShalimo I don’t need anything that contrived as an excuse to get naked, drunk and spin shit dits.

Only amatuers need an actual reason.

I have a further thought on the oath business. The key elements of an oath are that the maker intends it to be a serious promise to be kept, and makes it in public or to the people affected by it or in the presence of witnesses.

The god element, if there, is a distraction. It is social pressure that will make a solemn oath more enforceable than any old promise*. So if peeps want to accept the Arch bishes invitation then they should do so at some kind of coronation gathering so there will be witnesses to it.

*Assuming it is not actually legally enforceable, which some oaths and promises are.

I don’t need anything that contrived as an excuse to get naked, drunk and spin shit dits.

Well, that’s the military for you.

😁