Would I be prepared to swear an oath of allegiance in some form to recognise that I am part of society,

That’s an interesting take, which completely differs from mine. I guess it might depend on the prejudice you read it from. I very much read it as an allegiance to a hereditary head of state and their descendants, not to the ‘society’ over which they are imposed. I guess you can consider yourself to be part of a society of serfs if that’s your bag.

They could have scrapped it completely and ‘we’, including him, could have taken part in a mass affirmation to the nation (or society) in all our different roles.

Sorry, I must have missed something here. What was good about this country that’s been banned, what are you referring to?

Off the top of my head – smoking in bars. Not that smoke myself. But now look what’s happened. A general atmosphere of sickly perfume and farts. Noisy little kids running around and insufferable people taking ages at the bar ordering food.

It’s all bloody silly really. If you don’t have the literal fear of god hanging over you then you might as well pinky promise.

I’m up for swearing and nuking

Every MP makes that ^^ oath, including SNP MPs. But not Sinn Fein, which is why there are no SF MPs.

No it isn’t. SF Abstention is is not over a refusal to swear allegiance to the monarch, that’s just a lazy way to ignore the real reasons, that of opposition to the British parliament legislating over Ireland. Not swearing is a consequence not the reason, if there was no oath of allegiance, under current SF policy, they would still absent themselves.

I would swear allegiance to the people of Scotland I think.  Or affirm perhaps ie no god involved

Bollards. To. That.

Off the top of my head – smoking in bars.

Is that seriously the best you can come up with? Smoking indoors? Do you sigh wistfully for those halcyon days where you had to boil-wash everything you were wearing after a night out? Your chicken-in-a-basket and fries just isn’t the same without someone on the next table having a fag on the go?

Really?

Not that smoke myself. But now look what’s happened. A general atmosphere of sickly perfume and farts. Noisy little kids running around and insufferable people taking ages at the bar ordering food.

None of which has anything to do with a smoking ban.

That’s an interesting take, which completely differs from mine.

Well I think it is the same as yours. I wasn’t trying to interpret the proposed oath of allegiance to make it more palatable, I was wondering what I would do if presented with a different one.

If you don’t have the literal fear of god hanging over you then you might as well pinky promise.

Oaths these days don’t have to have anything to do with god. The coronation one will be on invitation from the arch bish, so it would be a bit awks if he gave an alternative for non believers. But forms of words exist which you can substitute if your only issue with it is the god part.

Sorry, I must have missed something here. What was good about this country that’s been banned, what are you referring to?

Freedom to peacefully protest has been gradually eroded.

Is that seriously the best you can come up with?

Nope. That’s why I said “off the top of my head”. To further enable the flow of chat old chap. Was I being summoned to prepare a statement of fact? On a Sunday? But the snooker final starts soon!

🤷‍♂️

You claimed “Everything else that was good about this country is being banned” – I can only conclude that either you have a big long list of things that were banned to the detriment of the country, literally “everything else” as you said, or you were talking abject bollocks.

Which was it?

Here’s some flow of chat…. 😀 Hope they ban vaping soon. Can’t be too long now. At one point vaping was haled as the answer to giving up smoking. Now you can buy give-up-vaping kits.

Oaths these days don’t have to have anything to do with god. The coronation one will be on invitation from the arch bish, so it would be a bit awks if he gave an alternative for non believers. But forms of words exist which you can substitute if your only issue with it is the god part.

That would be the ‘affirmation’ mentioned earlier I suppose.

It’s not so much as I have an issue with the ‘god’ part – as an atheist I couldn’t care less, you might as well ask me to swear under the watchful eye of Batman for the difference it makes – but rather without the belief in god part (and implied threat of retribution) the whole process is moot. No?

Abject bollocks probably. It is my right to do so on a Sunday.

Errmmm – in the scottish parliament they take a differnt oath and can affirm instead

There are SNP members of the Westminster Parliament who have to take the same oath as all the others.

Poster on STW backs down from pointless argument in amusing and graceful manner…..surely a first. maybe the new kingy has indeed brought the nation together

I’m all for it but only if I can do it in the style of B Blessed from the top of Kinder Scout maniacally punching the sky in a violent thunder storm with ants in his pants.

Here’s some flow of chat…. 😀 Hope they ban vaping soon. Can’t be too long now. At one point vaping was haled as the answer to giving up smoking. Now you can buy give-up-vaping kits.

To be fair,

You can get vape juice in a variety of strengths including 0%, at which point you’re basically sucking down gaseous Haribo. If you were looking to quit I expect it’s considerably easier to do so with vapes than cigarettes, you can deal with the nicotine addiction and the oral fixation habit as two separate things.

And from my point of view, I’d rather get an accidental faceful of dewberry-flavoured steam than cigarette smoke. But this is probably a tangent too far.

Coronation liturgy
That links to the text with the promises Charles will make, some wacky stuff in there. But in amongst the religious stuff he will promise to behave himself according to laws and customs. So that’s all right then.

Thing is though, he will promising to god, or the arch bish (may be the same thing in context), not us the people. If he’s not swearing at me why should I swear back at him? This reliance on a divine intermediary is really quite problematical.

Talking about this with a mate today , my son in laws dad is a very forthright, salt of the earth , self employed builder who says what he sees and no messing . Yet he used to be in the Household Cavalry / Guards whichever wear the bearskin and you daren’t criticise the Royal Family anywhere near him . I can’t help thinking the Army certainly did a number on him over the years . Although on saying that that was when Liz was still alive not sure how he feels now not brave enough to ask ! 🙄

I think Kingsley has made his position clear

I’ll not be bothering.
Looking forward to the ‘Now it’s time to kneel’ posts on social media too.

I’ll be in a pub that won’t be showing it or up a hill with the dog.

he used to be in the Household Cavalry / Guards whichever wear the bearskin and you daren’t criticise the Royal Family anywhere near him

Odd, isn’t it? People defend the realm for Queen and country, yet you aren’t allowed to engage with them about said democracy through fear of upset, or much worse.

but rather without the belief in god part (and implied threat of retribution) the whole process is moot. No?

Hmmm. You appear to think that your word is worthless unless enforceable in some way. Really?

I would not with to pledge allegiance swearing to god because I am an atheist.  However if I had to it would make no difference as I have no fear of retribution from god!

I can’t help thinking the Army certainly did a number on him over the years .

Of course they did. All military training has an element of mental conditioning/brain washing, particularly what would be considered frontline infantry. It’s the only way to ensure they will do as they are told.

More subservient nonsense masquerading as tradition.

You don’t have to swear allegiance to the KING and his descendants if you don’t want to.

Unless you are applying for UK citizenship, in which case you do.

“I swear that I will pay true allegiance to your majesty, and to your heirs and successors according to law. So help me God.”

Absolute shite but thanks for the day off bro.

for a supposedly educated man the Arch Dick of Cantebury is a **** idiot coming out with all this divide right bull crap. he should walk in and say “this is a **** travesty a as if the church of Jesus christ would have any interest in picking kings” crown your **** self.

enablers and sycophants suck ups and climbers forelock tuggers and serfs what a miserable sight we make.

I would not with to pledge allegiance swearing to god because I am an atheist. However if I had to it would make no difference as I have no fear of retribution from god!

But would you regard a solemn promise, made by you in whatever form you think appropriate, as having any value?

Can’t say I have particularly strong feelings either way about the Royal Family but I certainly won’t be pledging anything. Actually that’s not true, I pledge to ignore the whole thing.

made by you in whatever form you think appropriate

Thats a completely different point and somewhat argumentative.

But would you regard a solemn promise, made by you in whatever form you think appropriate, as having any value?

Of course.  If I give my word I mean it.  I don’t need some imaginary deity to give me morals

I’m up for giving it a try, it’ll be funny as **** if it works. But then I am quite evil and vindictive so maybe others will just think it’s cruel.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=222941753698316&set=a.181616027830889

I’ve regularly sworn an oath to the Queen as a Scout, and have no problem with that – to me, the Queen/King in that context represents the country/society, I’ve never thought of it in any feudal/servile context.

Swearing an oath to the king on his coronation, for some reason seems more feudal to me without the wider Scouting context. Maybe I’m confused or hypocritical, but I’m out.

Others are free to swear an oath or not, free choice, not for me to judge.

Whatever your views, anyone with an atom of decency will reserve their thoughts until after the coronation.

This is far too hasty. It has been a difficult time for the country. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second’s death roiled the nation, coming as it did so soon after George VI’s tragic passing. Now is not the time for division. Instead, whatever our political opinion, we should unite around the things everyone agrees on, viz. what a wonderful job King Charles will do and how lucky we are to have him reign over us.