A coppers lot.

I wanted to be a copper as a younger man but never got round to applying and ended up in the ambulance service, i wouldnt want to be a copper now to be fair….i work in custody suites as a medic and the thought of working with the scum that comes through the door is unappealing at best, they fight and spit at officers knowing full well they are unlikely to recieve any additonal punishment for their behaviour, meanwhile they are quick to cry foul if they dont get the treatment they feel they deserve in custody including access to drugs to stop them withdrawing during their stay…i can only imagine how delightful these folk are when on the street in their natural surroundings.

Regards pay and pensions, everybody on the public payroll is getting it done to them….i will however say that some of the moaning does remind me of the ‘first world problems’ thread, my pay is still 35k+ per year with full sick pay for 6 months followed by half pay for another 6 months before they medically retire me (should the situation arise), overtime is available and working 12 hour shifts mean i only work 3 or 4 days a week, loads of time off and plenty of time to work in the private sector too, holiday is paid and we get a lot….about 8 weeks a year and despite the reforms the pension will still be better than nothing….i’ve worked far harder for far less in the past.

….i’ve had jobs where i got 2 weeks leave a year and they had to be taken as a 2 week block, i’ve had jobs with no sick pay, jobs where i did a 6 day working week, no pension provision etc etc….i remind myself (and my colleagues) of this when the moaning starts.

There is no room at all in the police for corrupt or violent police officers, who use the uniform as a power trip.Lets get that straight.

Good, shame you didn’t say that 2 days ago, instead of an introductory note to an emotive fictitious outpouring. I want to believe in the police, god knows we need them, but they have some work to do and need to drive change from within to win back the public.

JAG – Member
I’ll be the next bad guy for the record one of my siblings is a DC with West Mercia.

I have to support the Governments intentions to reform and improve the Public Sector – whether that’s through changes to Pensions or Performance Related Pay. The private sector have had these ‘motivational tools’ in place for twenty years now and it is best practice and should be adopted by the Public Sector.

WTF!? Pension cuts are motivational tools!?

JAG
you are totally misguided about the cuts in police
we have finsihed thousands of civilian staff in G.M.P because of the budget cuts.do you know who is now doing the civilian staff jobs in a lot of cases?
Police officers, how ridiculous is that, police officers on £40k year doing a job that was previously being done by someone on £12k a year.
the poilce officer who is doing that jonb, is not doing it full time, they are doing oit in addition to their patrol work, so guess what , they dont go on the streets as much because of it.
We cant recriut any further officers because of the cuts, but every year hundreds of officers retire, so the police numbers get less and less, meaning less officers on the streets.
This means more crime, and more criminals.
Its not brain surgery

yes there must be ‘danger’ sometimes involved in policing, there is also a lot of mundane stuff, interspersed with ‘adrenaline’ jobs, its probably those that make it worthwhile.
I take it all the police on here are volunteers, who could if they choose exit the job, i am not decrying what you do, but there are many dangerous but maybe less glamorous occupations around, and they do not have a decent pension.

The police do a useful and dangerous job, that’s undeniable. However, recent events aside, there are far more dangerous occupations which get very little coverage. If one of them hadn’t been a famous rugby player, would anyone have paid much attention to three people who drowned in a slurry tank recently? In the last 10 years, over 400 people have died on farms. Fishing isn’t exactly safe either.

And of course there are the 1400+ people who have died after contact with the police since 1990.

Wrecker, that’s crap. My duties are just as demanding as the Army and rm, unfortunately people like you don’t see the specialist side of policing.

Really? Are you going to compare the home counties to Helmand?

Just a few things to consider-hm forces get, free health and dental care, low cost subsidised accommodation.. The police do more hours than teachers, fire and rescue and NHS staff.

So HM forces get the things that everyone else in the entire country gets and they’re lucky? Did you ever go on an operational tour during your time? Do you really want to compare hours?
Did you get to join the HM forces union? Oh, no there isn’t one as they’re not allowed.

I have plenty of respect for the police (it’s not a job that I could do), and do not want to see them cut at all. Neither do I want to see the health service, forces, fire service or schools cut but everyone’s being forced to take a bite of the shit sandwich.
The police are not in a position that unique and are certainly not the worst off.

And of course there are the 1400+ people who have died after contact with the police since 1990.

Thats a bit of a ropey statistic even for someone (myself) who think the police need some serious changes.

well, we can make any figure we want up on a forum, its not the real world is it?
MSP, what do you do for a living?

Thats a bit of a ropey statistic even for someone (myself) who think the police need some serious changes.

1439 in England and Wales since 1990:
http://inquest.gn.apc.org/website/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

None of those deaths led to any officer being convicted for murder or manslaughter.

Undeniably a very tough job and not one I would choose, but…

When did they make it compulsory? presumably you can leave if you choose?

Pensions are being torn up all over the place. My own after 18 years (private sector).

I really wish they’d stop showing the police reality shows on tv. It generally leaves a dreadful impression of dense, macho skinheads in uniform spoiling for a fight. This (presumably) is not the image the police service wishes to portray?

your forum name bencoopper

sure its not bentcopper

Wrecker, the police don’t have a union either….it’s a federation. In some places of the uk, yes, it’s as dangerous for cops. The amount of gun crime has trebled in the inner cities the past 5 years. If I need back up it could be 10-15 Minutes away, I can’t call for a gunship to rescue me. Remember the riots last year???? Hmmmmmm, I would say that was just as demanding.

I agree the hm forces do get a rough deal, I served in n Ireland during the troubles so know first hand how tough it is.

your forum name bencoopper

sure its not bentcopper

I’d be good at being a bent copper – certainly would make more money than running a bike shop 🙂

So you don’t think it’s odd that, even in the tiny number of cases that made it to trial (16 out of 1439), there were no convictions? Is it common to have 16 murder trials that have no convictions, when the defendant is a member of the public?

One way to look at it Ben cooper is “would a member of the public have even been charged in those 16 cases?”

It will have been a jury that made the decision….

ben
there is one thing i can guarantee you,
we dont get favours from the judiciary!!

ben,
who mentioned they were murder trials

the figures are good
we are not killing half as many people recently as in the past 😀

I do dispute that any UK inner city is as dangerous as patrolling in Helmand (if only due to IEDs) and 10-15 minutes is a lot quicker than the average gunship spt. As I’ve said, however I do support the police as it’s a difficult and at times quite dangerous job.
Does the police federation allow you to strike if you want to?

we cant take strike action as we are crown employees
the federation will be hol;ding a ballott of police officers soon for the right to take industrial action(not strike action)

What would industrial action entail easygirl?

One way to look at it Ben cooper is “would a member of the public have even been charged in those 16 cases?”

It will have been a jury that made the decision…

I thought it was the CPS who decided on all criminal prosecutions?

So how do we explain it? If over 1400 people died while visiting bike shops in the past 20 years, there would be a lot of questions asked – and I’m sure there would have been convictions, for manslaughter at least.

Why has this not happened with the police? Is it that the IPCC aren’t doing their job properly, is it that the police close ranks and make it harder to find out what happened, is it that the media skews reports*, is it that juries are biased towards the police?

The attitude often seems to be that, since they died in custody, they must have been wrong ‘uns so had it coming.

*remember that de Menezes was initially reported to have run from police, jumped the station barriers, and was wearing a suspiciously bulky jacket with wires coming out. All of which was later found to be untrue.

CPS decide if the case will go to court
juries or magistrates decide if the person is guilty or innocent

First, Glad the police are there, Thank you to those who chose to serve.
You are appreciated, even if it doesn’t always show.

But as ben says, there is a bit of a myth as to the level of danger.
Farming, fishing and construction are more dangerous occupations.
And being arrested, of course. 😉

Oh, and I’m completely on the police’s side when it comes to the pensions etc, by the way – you signed up to a contract to do a difficult job, it’s not on to change the terms of the contract later.

Correct CPS make the decision to charge, and will have made the decision to charge the officers. They tend to treat officers more harshly than members of the public and put it to trial and can’t be seen to be favourable

The jury will have found them not guilty.

ben
generally people who go to bike shops are genuine decent people
people who are in stolen cars and in custody are not, and i did say generally remember.
i woul imagine a great majority of the deaths would be down to crashing stolen cars, or in the case of death in custody, due to drugs or suicide, again this is a massive assumption, but vfrom my 25 years as a police officer that is the usual cause of custody deaths.

The pension thing is a red herring. Everyone in the real world is having to suck up some pretty unpleasant changes to T’s and C’s in the benefits that used to be expected.

Plod have to accept it, as do teachers, nurses, civil servants, blah blah blah.

My private sector final salary pension is dead; has been since Nu Labour stuck the boot in. I’m having to make alternative arrangements. The Police will need to do the same.

It’s demoralising, but it’s where the country is at the moment.

If you haven’t done the job you have no idea what it really involves. We have to run towards situations that Everyone else is running away from. Tell a mother their son is dead. Give mouth to mouth to a traffic accident casualty, comfort the girl that has just been raped, stop the mentally ill person killing themselves on a roof, roll over the body that has rotted for months to make sure they weren’t stabbed in the back, take on the gunman unarmed because armed support is too far away and a complete stranger is in danger, grab the dangerous dog, fight a crowd of hooligans hell bent on injuring you without using excessive force. Etc etc. We joined because we wanted to do something worthwhile and help others in society. All we are asking for, irrespective of what is happening to others, is what we signed up to. We can stomach paying more than 11% for our pensions or working longer or getting less. But not all three on top of pay freezes and budget cuts. It’s excessive given what we sacrifice and are prepared to sacrifice every day for strangers and society as a whole.

It’s demoralising, but it’s where the country is at the moment.

Where the country is is a bunch of toffs who have never worked a day in their lives, and who aren’t actually all that bright, are trying to implement a right-wing manifesto by dismantling everything they can before they’re inevitably kicked out of power.

All we are asking for, irrespective of what is happening to others, is what we signed up to.

And this is where you have my complete support.

what other job in the public sector do you get spat on , punched, stabbed, shot, killed,?

spat on/at – yep
punched – yep
stabbed – not personally, yet, but colleagues yes.
shot – nope, but we do get to go into homes of mentally unwell individuals who own guns and look after people who have murdered with such guns
killed – i’m pretty sure that some mental health nurses have been killed in the line of duty in the past.

still… i’d rather be a mental health nurse than a police officer! i get to deal with the broadmoor type people, the police get to deal with the same people, and the public!

And I have to deal with Cyclist’s Touring Club members. Some of them can be positively intimidating when you won’t give them a discount on a patch kit…

wrecker
re industrial action, not sure what it would involve to be honest.
as a bobby never thought about it before,coulkd be working to rule, no overtime working, that alone would cause a massive headache.
we could never go on strike, i think that is known by all officers, can you imagine what it would be like?
imagine the riots, but instead of shops , they would e coming in your home and stealing from you direct

Where the country is is a bunch of toffs who have never worked a day in their lives, and who aren’t actually all that bright, are trying to implement a right-wing manifesto by dismantling everything they can before they’re inevitably kicked out of power

Yet it was Gordon and Tony who initially set the Pension business wobbling by raiding every Pension fund in the land. Except the Public sector Pension, which is paid for by taxpayers. Maybe Snooty is just evening the playing field?

All we are asking for, irrespective of what is happening to others, is what we signed up to.

There is no free lunch. All bets are off. Make sure you have a seat when the music stops.

The deal has been changed. Hope it does not change any more.

How the rest of these reforms are being implemented is controlled and managed by local Police Forces. They don’t have to slash recruitment or cut-back anywhere IF they can make efficiency improvements instead.
Efficiency here means reducing paperwork and improving methods to minimise inefficient use of expensive resources (coppers!) and keep said resources focused on their core business i.e policing the streets.
The biggest problem seems to be that local Police ‘management’ take the easier (and publicly less acceptable) route of slashing recruitment and cutting staffing levels because it’s easier and less acceptable to the public. It also upsets the Minister who’s asking them to save money – thereby reducing the likelyhood (they hope) that they’ll be asked to save any more money.

Ok, so what are these efficiency improvements? Serious question by the way. Will they amount to the £26 million budget cut over 3 years that Notts has to stomach?

Bearing in mind the much Police Policy & Procedure is regulated by both act of Parliament and the NPIA, a government agency.

Well, I was the one who sent the email(s) to the OP and a few other officers on STW. Ive done a undergraduate and am currently doing a masters. Always fancied joining up but this thread is certainly food for thought. (not that I can find any one recruiting anyway)

G.M.P 134million cuts by 2014
so far has lost 3,000 staff

imagine the riots, but instead of shops , they would e coming in your home and stealing from you direct

With due respect, I think that’s a bit of a stretch. The inner cities would be a mess for sure but the forces would be dragged in (probably with nothing but pick helves, black nasty and helibedfords) as always.