I am making plans to leave, as are a number of my shift. Those of us younger in service have been well and truly stuffed by this government. We are all on a far inferior pension already as Labour bought in a new plan in 2006. I can’t see much point in those that stay paying 14% into a pension that will pay so little out. Years of stress and shift work mean police officers die very young so they will be lucky to make it to their new retirement age. Pay and conditions aside, I don’t want to be part of Winsor’s new police force. His proposals will end in a paramilitary style police force of young men. All nonviolent tasks will be taken on by civilian (private sector) staff. Everything will be done on the cheap. My current force are using G4S to attend burglaries already.

Thank you to our colleagues in green who are also out and about every night. I hope things work out for you guys.

The speed limits were originally chosen to make collisions survivable. Hit a pedestian at les than 30mph and they have a chance of surviving, more and they have almost no chance. Hav e problem on the open road at 50mph and the chances are that by the time you hit anything you’ll have slowed and little and will survive. The limits are too high in urban areas IMO.

But every job has its bad apples and to hold up one crap chief constable in a thread about the service in general is a bit poor IMO.

That’s not what happened. Someone attempted to hold him up as an example of good police 😆

how is he a ‘bad’ apple– compared to who—

Find it interesting that a progressive police chief is called a bad un

Current coppers will lament the change in conditions and pay but as there a plenty of people wanting to join as the pay,pension and conditions are still better than most.

Its the same in the forces, nursing, councills and big companies etc but people still sign up

have a good look around people in the private sector may get similar pay but the pensions can be vairiable or non existant and other benefits like sick pay can be very poor and job security is very poor

I hope the good coppers stay in post and carry on looking after the public

I find it staggering how many people seem to think they know all about policing because they once watched Panorama, an episode of the Bill and are annoyed that the guy who nicked their lawnmower wasnt caught. Its a profession requiring training, skill and experience. The same as any other. I wouldnt profess to know how to carry out an apendectomy or fly an Apache. The specialist job I do within the police is incredibly rewarding and important but it will never be recognised in public and the modest rewards I signed up for are being taken away from me. Funnily enough that annoys me, the same as it would all the self-righteous, mis-informed big mouths on here. I got a very good degree and offered a well paid job in the City. Instead I chose to join up to help people. The current government and the mainstam media are slowly eroding what is consistently regarded as the best police service in the world. Sure its not perfect, but its still the best.

Are you surfmat?

I wish

Nonsense– that is true of all public sector workers, maligned, overworked and defo underpaid, the media are owned mostly by a few very rich individuals, he who pays the piper…….

self-righteous, mis-informed big mouths on here

Anyone who criticises the police is this? There are lots of more dangerous jobs and lots that help people and plenty that are harder and have worse pay and conditions. Just saying.

Nonsense– that is true of all public sector workers, maligned, overworked and defo underpaid, the media are owned mostly by a few very rich individuals, he who pays the piper..

maligned yes
media owned by v rich with their own agenda yes

the rest no

Rudebwoy, you are the first person I have ever heard say anything good about him! Without exception the perception from the people round me was he was obsessed with speeding and even spent his spare time at speed traps, also earning the nickname traffic Taliban!. It may well have been undeserved but that was the perception and it really did not help with relations with the people I know and to be honest they were glad when he went. This is a real shame because this one element of his strategy overshadowed all his other work, you can argue all you like about the legitimacy of his actions but when the public don’t support you it makes things more difficult…

he was evangelical in some ways, met him first at an open meeting, he took questions from all for hours, i went with an open mind, and it shocked me that i found myself agreeing with virtually all he said.

The fact that clarkson made him public enemy no1 should be in his favour.He was not on a popularity contest, perhaps he was wanted to do too much too quickly, but don’t condemn him for that.

I find it staggering how many people seem to think they know all about policing …….

Sure I do……..the present Tory government (and their LibDem lackeys) reckons I know so much about policing that I will have a say in selecting my local police and crime commissioner.

It’s a well known fact that Joe Public is an expert when it comes to fighting crime and deterrents. String ’em up, arm the police, and zero tolerance, is the result of expert analysis and well informed conclusions reached whilst having a pint down the pub with equally well-informed mates.

.

The current government and the mainstam media are slowly eroding what is consistently regarded as the best police service in the world. Sure its not perfect, but its still the best.

Slowly but surely all the things which once made Britain unique and the envy of the world have been eroded to a level that at best are now average. The two British institutions still remaining which provide a shinning example to the rest of the world are the BBC and British police.

But don’t expect any commitment to those two institutions from this shower of **** now in power, and their private/profit fetishes.

Marcus7, strangely Mr Brunstrom targeted motorists speeding and breaking the laws, as they have the potential to kill and seriously injure other road users,and often do, i would rather have a few officers manning a speed camera, than trying to track down a thief who has stolen a pair of trainers ,also it was north wales police speed camera team that spotted and charged the a neighbouring chief constable with speeding, the same chap was also the head of the ACPO roads policing unit.

At the present time to much of the polices time is taken up with dealing with alchol fueled incidents, and social service type requests, its about time families where forced to take comntrol of their problems, or just be ignored and left to fight it out between themselves.

Have a read of a book called wasting police time, written by a serbving police officer, and see the sort of pointless social services day he has to deal with.

It certainly should not be a popularity contest but allowing a perception of a no mercy approach to an element of policing did him no favours and I believe he could and should have headed off the negative publicity sooner, instead he seemed to bask in that reputation. Like all things you have to pick your battles and I just think he fought it badly

Slowly but surely all the things which once made Britain unique and the envy of the world have been eroded to a level that at best are now average. The two British institutions still remaining which provide a shinning example to the rest of the world are the BBC and British police.

Thank you Ernie.

Project, I never had/ have issues with the policing of roads, I’m just saying that at that time an image of targeting motorist was allowed to develop at the expence of other policing duties, it wasn’t true but people believed it and that was the mistake imo. I’m not critical of the policy just the execution. I’m making no comment on the current plocies as this has already strayed way off topic except to say all my dealings with the police have been positive ( I nearly joined 10 years ago!) And take my hat off to them all.

Everything will be done on the cheap

This.

Nobody is disputing economic reality. What really fugging riles is how it’s being used as an excuse for some kind of ideological yardsale – whether it be offloading police stuff to G4S or handing NHS primary care over to Serco. Far from providing value, it simply amounts to a subsidy of corporate profits even as services are being reduced. All waved thru by a bunch of politicos who, I suspect, would pish themselves with fear if they had to do a nightshift on the sharp end of things.

Speaking as an NHS type, I have huge sympathy for frontline Police and what they have to deal with.

what other job in the public sector do you get spat on , punched, stabbed, shot, killed,?

Maybe not shot at work (yet)

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmjust/361/361.pdf

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2011/11/10/kevan-thakrar-cleared-of-injuring-frankland-prison-officers-61634-29750805/

Prison Officers deal with what the police/courts send them, often for years & years.

I spent tonight on G wing with one other colleague & 50 category C prisoners. 4 of them on ACCTS (self harm obs).
& we’ll do it all again tomorrow,

I began reading last nights thread with regard to the very sad loss of two of my colleagues but refrained from comment as I knew there may be trolls at some point that would make my blood boil and as an officer of 29 years service I can rise above it. I have read the initial parts of this thread but skim read the usual comments that often appear to come from people trolling.
I too have sadly had to reply to friends of my children who are considering the Police as a ‘career’ with similar words to the OP. I still say my piece when in meetings with managers for the good of the staff that will still be in the job after I have gone, likewise I now feel it is time to defend the good officers and police staff against any misconceptions or bad experiences some of the STW world and friends and family have experienced.
Firstly having done 17 years of shift work in uniform before specialising I can without doubt say that policing has damaged my health for ever through lack of sleep/conditions/poor lifestyle but i offset this with the number of lives I have saved whilst risking my own life. I am proud to have recieved 10 police constable commendations for bravery and a Royal Humane Society award for saving a womans life in imminent danger. I have also been grilled in both Crown Court and Magistrates Court for policing and protecting myself and others and been treated as the criminal but always cleared of any wrong doing.
I have payed over 11% of my monthly pay to recieve a pension that because of the ill health that I have gained through policing will potentially cut my life short by 10 years to what I should have lived, when the average worker, even public sector worker has only paid in 3%!
The current specialist job I do within the job I love doing, I still get the rush and satisfaction when a criminal gets 8 years for dealing in poison or other long sentence for destroying peoples lives by other means.
I have known bad officers, rest assured Karma happens, what goes around comes around and some of those bad officers have ended up where they belong-in prison!
Soldiers have soldiers jobs, different in training and deployment and in expectations that they will be willing to kill or be killed for their Queen and Country.
99.9% of Officers are fine, upstanding, giving, selfless human beings who have a heart and as an aside feel that they really are being decimated by previous financial mis-management and the whimsy of current political puppetry.
I for one am so sad that I now wish my life away for the next twelve months so that I am no longer part of what used to be a policing family of the people for the people of the UK but as others have alluded to will become a dwindling number amongst a sea of ‘cheap’ policing with no care and no heart.
Rant over, as I have to be up early to go and keep everyone safe from harm!

hm forces still a shinning example also?

Glitchy

Everyone who doesn’t agree with every word the OP writes is a troll?

Everyone who doesn’t agree with every word the OP writes is a troll?

Is that really all you saw fit to comment on from Suggseys post?

Good but sad comments Suggsey and as someone who sees first hand on a regular basis the sort of shit the Police have to put up with, I have nothing but respect for the job they do.

Your comments re ‘wishing away the next 12 months’ hit home, as I have seen many good colleagues do exactly the same thing, some from fear that their pension is going to change before they retire and others due to failing health. It’s an appalling state of affairs.

has damaged my health for ever through lack of sleep/conditions/poor lifestyle

so what makes your shifts different from everybody elses? or as you have stated poor lifestyle, you have the federation who seem to be good at ensuring you are looked after

shorter life what do you base that on?

http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/what-is-the-average-life-expectancy-of-a-police-officer-after-retirement/2865906

retiring at 50 or less on an average pension index linked of £14k sounds good to me

yes it is a hard job and one I couldnt and wouldnt do and it is vital that the right type are recruited and retained and the powermad and idiots removed

Let’s not get into a pissing match. But how the hell can a federation that has no bargaining chip ever look after its members.

Following from 2 weeks ago no officer with less than 20 years service will retire with the pension you talk of.

Look at the life sacrifices police officers make for a career. Even our forces sign up to 22 years. I chose the police as I did not want to be a solider.

30 years service, dealing with what society cant. At 19 that is quantifiable and achievable. 30 years. I can do that. Now let’s go to 41 years.

It is a joke.

I can sit at a computer til I am 60. But really, I cannot see me saving life and limb at that age. I signed up for life.

I agree there is a requisite for change. But to change goal posts in such a manner is a disgrace.

Set the bar, but do not raise it.

Fully support the police on the cuts and shifting the goalposts on pensions etc.

Still see some worrying signs of the ‘look out for your own’ mentality though. I wonder how much has really changed since Hillsborough, given that we are only just finding out the truth about it now (and some are STILL blaming the fans). Also, brushing aside 1500 custody deaths with jokes and implying they’re all lowlifes anyway, hmmmm……

Plenty of others doing stressful jobs btw. Not saying its the same but I know of plenty of teachers, youth workers, ambulance people, hospital workers etc who’ve been assaulted at work.

I did my advanced motorbike test recently. Had a good chat with the copper who did it ( voluntarily I might add). I was very jealous of him retiring after 30 years in the job. Wouldnt want to do his job fot ten times the money he gets though.

I still want to join the Specials and do my bit. The Specials awareness evening dates are rare though it seems in GMP.

Bregante if you ever fancy a Peaks/small group ride any weekend – You know the offers always there.

Isnt running down the national services the first step towards privatisation?? The tories love that word. If they hold onto the next election the G4S will be policing the streets/ picking up the injured / putting out fires. Bankrupt health boards / hospitals… one step towards privatisation. Just a matter of time.

So what about the PFI projects that are now screwing up Hospital trusts Cloudnine?

..but thats a different topic.

hora – Member

I still want to join the Specials and do my bit.

*shudders*

Which one would you be hora?

I did my advanced motorbike test recently. Had a good chat with the copper who did it ( voluntarily I might add). I was very jealous of him retiring after 30 years in the job. Wouldnt want to do his job fot ten times the money he gets though.

He may well have to work over 40 years to get less pension now.can you imagine two 59 year old cops turning up to a pub full of fighting drunks in Salford/ any other city on a Saturday night?

Isnt running down the national services the first step towards privatisation?? The tories love that word. If they hold onto the next election the G4S will be policing the streets/ picking up the injured / putting out fires. Bankrupt health boards / hospitals… one step towards privatisation. Just a matter of time.

100% correct.

By placing ridiculous budget cuts on the service means that in many areas the service will fail. At the same time put a puppet in place as senior inspector Constabulary – Tom Winsor.

To be clear who Tom Winsor is, he is the former rail regulator with no Policing experience whatsoever. He is a partner at white & case the law firm that advised G4S on their “takeover” of Linolnshire Police.
To give colour to this also consider that the current Policing Minister Nick Herbert set up the think tank regarding the improvement of public services via private sector involvement.
Also consider that The Prudential own a large portion of G4S.
Which you may find interesting when you consider that our Home Secretary Theresa May is a Pru shareholder.

In many ways the pay & conditions arguments and concerns are a mere red herring. However, when you consider that an entirely independent tribunal made specific comment that the changes that were being proposed could not make any tangible savings, you have to wonder what is going on. Your police service are being shafted and you will feel the consequence. The problem is that the Goverment will portray the failings as the fault if the Police, thus undermining any public support or sympathy. Take the words and combative language used when Cameron 1st introduced the Winsor review:

“Why is it right that these people can retire on a full pension after only 30 years of work? whilst failing to mention that MPs get exactly the same pension with only a 5.9% contribution as oppose to the 11% officers were then paying. Political corruption at its finest.

😆 at grum.

hora will always be “special”

He may well have to work over 40 years to get less pension now.can you imagine two 59 year old cops turning up to a pub full of fighting drunks in Salford/ any other city on a Saturday night?

In the private sector people get promoted above the hard physical front-line work to desk jobs as they get older. Their experience reamins within the business but gets used in other ways. Policing seems ideal for this strategy especially as such a small proportion of officers working are out and about if published statistics are to be believed. Policing is mainly a paper chase (or computer chase) and administration.

In the private sector people get promoted above the hard physical front-line work to desk jobs as they get older. Their experience reamins within the business but gets used in other ways. Policing seems ideal for this strategy especially as such a small proportion of officers working are out and about if published statistics are to be believed. Policing is mainly a paper chase (or computer chase) and administration.

You would think so wouldn’t you? Yet the stated aim of the Goverment is to get cops out of the backroom roles.

mildred +1

What we are seeing, that a lot of people seem to be willfully ignoring, is the premeditated and systematic dismantling of the state as we know it. Its main functions – Health, Education, Policing are being primed, ready to be handed lock, stock and barrel, to the Tories friends in the private sector. So they can then ruthlessly exploit essential services to benefit themselves handsomely.

And once its done, it’ll be irreversible. People need to wake the **** up! And fast!